Stadium Update from RedWeb

[Guest fatshaft]

First off don't presume anything.  Unless it's written in stone that AFC will have facilities there to increase revenue then I'd say we'll get the use of it on match days and whenever we're training.  Any other time it'll be the Council's stadium and they'll be looking to coin it in.

 

Anyway, what would these other revenue streams be?  People keep posting things like "gyms, hotels, shops, etc" but who exactly is going to run a hotel there?

 

The Council? 

 

AFC? 

 

If anything they may have office space or units within the stadium to rent out or perhaps conference rooms you could hire for meetings or courses but do you honestly think AFC would see any of that money?

1. The hotel. It will be run by a hotel chain, the Reebok hotel is run by De Vere's, they will pay rental for the space, and being so close to Altens and the A90 it will have plenty takers for the lease.

 

2. Other revenue will be more or less shared, why would the council get all the "other" revenue when it is a JV with equal capital input?

 

You're right we shouldn't assume, but any assumptions should be logical, you're simply trying to spin this into as negative as possible for AFC, I don't know why you would do that?

 

Also consider that AFC is run by experienced businessmen, whereas the cooncil is not, maybe, just maybe, the Dons will get the better end of any imbalance when they come down to splitting who gets what share of what?

[Kowalski]

There's a cronic shortage of beds in hotels midweek in Aberdeen.  Another hotel anywhere is bound to do well.

I agree, it'll be run by a hotel chain.

[phil-stellaartois-mcguire]

you could build a thousand bedroom hotel in aberdeen and it would still be full on crew change days.

[Guest fatshaft]

Experienced business men who got us into serious debt - and have been running the company at a loss for over a decade.

And it's still running, they must be doing something right then. I believe Wiggy is one of the richest men in Scotland, must have some idea what he's doing I presume?

 

...or why would you spin it positively - is everything really that rosy at Bolton?

 

Ok, simple question, why assume there wouldn't be a hotel, when it's been stated there would be? Why assume that no-one would run it, when that's the least likely scenario? AFC even said they were modelling the project on the Reebok. So do we assume thyere will be offices and a leased hotel as they have stated, or do we assume the opposite?

 

That's why you would spin it positively, because it's not spin, it's making an assumption based on all the points brought publicly, whereas ST just wanted to say it would be crap because he doesn't like the Cove idea.

[Superstar Tradesman]

...or why would you spin it positively - is everything really that rosy at Bolton?

 

Experienced business men who got us into serious debt - and have been running the company at a loss for over a decade.

 

Went for lunch and you've saved me the bother of posting the above. 

 

AFC are going to stump up money for a share in the stadium and then wipe the debt with the rest.

 

Unless the hotel is somehow part of the stadium then there's no way they'll be chipping in money for another building alongside the stadium.

 

If building a hotel was the way to make money then why haven't the club done so already?

 

Like I said, it's a red herring.

[Superstar Tradesman]

That's why you would spin it positively, because it's not spin, it's making an assumption based on all the points brought publicly, whereas ST just wanted to say it would be crap because he doesn't like the Cove idea.

 

You're missing the point entirely.

 

Yes I'd prefer it down the beach but I just don't want people wanting it at Cove purely because they think they'll end up with some super-complex with bells and whistles when at the end of the day, all AFC will be getting the use of a stadium every couple of weekends and a couple days training each week.

 

Why even have a hotel at a stadium?

 

Very few travelling fans will stay there as it's just as easy to travel home after the game.  Anyway, would you stay at Rangers Towers or Hearts Hotel if there were such places, knowing you're pumping more money into their bank accounts?

[Superstar Tradesman]

ST - the idea of the hotel isn't just for fitba fans - it's for the 100's of oil folk travelling through every day - they even had to put folk up on ancruise boat moored off peterheid during offshore europe.  A hotel would be very busy - would AFC see any revenue from it - probably only a very small amount, if anything

 

I know what a hotel is for min. 

 

I just don't understand the need for one at a community stadium?

 

If it's so we can house oil workers and they choose the Cove site as there's no room down the beach for it alongside the stadium, then I smell shite.

[Guest fatshaft]

I just don't understand the need for one at a community stadium?

 

If it's so we can house oil workers and they choose the Cove site as there's no room down the beach for it alongside the stadium, then I smell shite.

FFS, it wont be alongside the stadium, it will be part of the stadium. What the hell is so difficult to understand. And revenue share, no I doubt they'll get revenue share, it will be leased, but as I'd already posted that, why bother repeating the same thing again?

 

Why build it as part of the stadium? 1. Leasehold revenue. 2. Makes revenue generating use of the space under the stands, as will the office space on one or more of the other stands.

 

What's currently under the south stand for example? Nothing, just earth and foundations, which is a waste of footage and loss of potential revenue generating activity.

[Superstar Tradesman]

FFS, it wont be alongside the stadium, it will be part of the stadium. What the hell is so difficult to understand. And revenue share, no I doubt they'll get revenue share, it will be leased, but as I'd already posted that, why bother repeating the same thing again?

 

Why build it as part of the stadium? 1. Leasehold revenue. 2. Makes revenue generating use of the space under the stands, as will the office space on one or more of the other stands.

 

What's currently under the south stand for example? Nothing, just earth and foundations, which is a waste of footage and loss of potential revenue generating activity.

 

So if it's nothing to do with space, then why the hard-on for Cove?

[Kowalski]

Where's the space down the beach for a stadium, training facilities and a hotel?

[TheChimp]

Where's the space down the beach for a stadium, training facilities and a hotel?

 

They're knocking down the Broadhill.

 

And the leisure centre.

 

And they're going to use the Beach Ballroom as a sort of Craven Cottage.

[Guest fatshaft]

If Bolton were building it, they'd build it in cove! 

grow up you twat. And as ever uninformed, they built the Reebok in Horwich, a bit further out than Cove actually. 

[Guest fatshaft]

So if it's nothing to do with space, then why the hard-on for Cove?

And where have you seen my hard-on for Cove? I already said I would probably just about favour the beach over Cove, but just. I just fail to believe the nonsense spouted on here by a few who will no longer be able to walk to the ground. Cove will provide much greater space to park, much better access for the majority of paying punters. 

[Superstar Tradesman]

I don't think anyone really complained about not getting a pint or certainly meant it without being a little tongue-in-cheek.

 

As for the greater access, that'll only apply to those travelling from the South.  Ask the thousands of Reds from Ellon, Inverurie, Fraserburgh, Peterhead, Turriff, etc... what they think.

 

As far as I'm aware, Montrose, Brechin, Arbroath, etc are mostly all Dundee/United fans.

 

I doubt very much that it'll have an impact on those who already travel from these towns but you could probably add an hour onto the journey time and as they'll be going through Aberdeen to get there, it'll only make the traffic worse on the busiest day of the week.

[Kowalski]

As for the greater access, that'll only apply to those travelling from the South.  Ask the thousands of Reds from Ellon, Inverurie, Fraserburgh, Peterhead, Turriff, etc... what they think.

 

Probably quicker to get to Cove once the bypass is in place.

[Guest fatshaft]

I don't think anyone really complained about not getting a pint or certainly meant it without being a little tongue-in-cheek.

 

As for the greater access, that'll only apply to those travelling from the South.  Ask the thousands of Reds from Ellon, Inverurie, Fraserburgh, Peterhead, Turriff, etc... what they think.

 

As far as I'm aware, Montrose, Brechin, Arbroath, etc are mostly all Dundee/United fans.

 

I doubt very much that it'll have an impact on those who already travel from these towns but you could probably add an hour onto the journey time and as they'll be going through Aberdeen to get there, it'll only make the traffic worse on the busiest day of the week.

as kowalski says, the bypass will be in situ by then, but even if not, anyone from the west will either be coming along South Deeside Road, so quicker for them, the Tarland/Alford roads, again they will either cut across through Culter way or turn down the drive at Kepplestone, Cove will be quicker.

 

Then you get those coming from the Inverurie corridor, if they head all the way to the Haudagin, from there to Cove, or there to Linksfield will be pretty similar when you take in that you have to hunt the parking space, then hoof it at Pittodrie.

 

The ones that will suffer are the town centre, north side of city, and vanderark14 and his pals from the Peterhead/Fraserburgh way who will undoubtedly be worse off, but then those from the south will be better off. I doubt Stoney/Newtonhill & Glaslethen make up as many Dons as the north side, but I'd be a little surprised if the majority didn't find Cove easier. If the WPT is up, it's no contest for anyone that drives, it will be easier.

[Superstar Tradesman]

The bypass may be easier but will it really be any quicker than cutting through town rather than circumnavigating it all the way to Cove?

 

I just think that site has been chosen with no regards to financial gain for the club, footballing reasons or the fans.

 

I fully expect that also to be the case when it comes to building the stadium.  This has the chance to be fantastic but I just can't see it being the case unless you're in it for personal gain.

[Guest fatshaft]

The bypass may be easier but will it really be any quicker than cutting through town rather than circumnavigating it all the way to Cove?

 

I just think that site has been chosen with no regards to financial gain for the club, footballing reasons or the fans.

 

I fully expect that also to be the case when it comes to building the stadium.  This has the chance to be fantastic but I just can't see it being the case unless you're in it for personal gain.

Oh come on now, the club have effectively chosen it for no reason at all?

[Superstar Tradesman]

The club or board of directors who think that selling our greatest asset, is the only way to get out of the financial mess, that they've got us into?

[Guest fatshaft]

The club or board of directors who think that selling our greatest asset, is the only way to get out of the financial mess, that they've got us into?

Assets are no good if you stick them in the cupboard and just look at them. They're selling it to re-invest in a new stadium, yes they will no longer be sole owners, but then the bank effectively owns Todders now, and going forward Cove (or wherever) will be a modern stadium that provides other revenue streams not wholly connected to the football. Yes Pittodrie has a little of that now, but very very little compared to the football income.

 

I'm sure if all Dons fans were polled, and all options were viable, I doubt a single one would vote against a total refurb of Pittodrie, but that's impossible apparently, so we have to move on.

 

I admit I was no fan of the out of town stadium idea originally, but moving to England has opened my eyes. I'd far rather go to a Reebok or Ricoh, than a St.Andrews or Anfield.

[Guest fatshaft]

In my opinion English football is a total sell out. "Cacio di merda!" - as Italian ultras groupes have called it.

 

It's over-rated pish I'll grant you, that has nothing to do with how good the stadiums are though, and the new beats the old hands down.

 

[Superstar Tradesman]

It's over-rated pish I'll grant you, that has nothing to do with how good the stadiums are though, and the new beats the old hands down.

 

Course it is.

 

But I still haven't seen a decent reason for having a community stadium out of town.

[Guest fatshaft]

Because the new beats the old, dummy! 

 

...and I'm still waiting to hear if everything is rosy at the reebok?

 

There used to be a bloke at my work who we called "rosy toes" , he wore reeboks - and his feet stunk!!! Coincidence?!? 

I posted this on Thursday

 

Exactly Bilbo, it's the same nonsense you hear and read every time a club proposes a new stadium that isn't in the footprint of the old one. The only fans that complain about the Ricoh, Reebok, Kingston Stadium or Emirates, are those that now have further to travel, but for every fan that has further to go, another fan will be nearer, and ALL of these (pand Cove) will have better parking, so more people can actually go there easily, which can only increase the numbers attending.

 

Yes it would be nice to still be at the traditional spot, but even at the beach, it's not going to be in the Pittodrie footprint, so it won't really be "Pittodrie" will it? So given that, the " traditional" arguement goes out the window.

[Guest fatshaft]

I meant more in the business sense? Are attendances up or down since the move? Do the surrounding businesses profit? What has happened to the area where the stadium used to be - has trade suffered there?

 

Cannae find anything on wikipedia and that's aboot the limit of my interest.  Was asking cos you seem itk aboot Bolton and seem keen to draw comparisons.

 

Funny, here's a little quote I found, which is eerily reminiscent of the recent statements from the Dons.

 

The idea of building a sports related complex in Bolton had been an ambition of Bolton Metropolitan Borough Council for many years but without private sector backing it would remain a only dream...

 

When Bolton Wanderers Football Club were promoted to the English Premiership in 1993 they were faced with the task of either improving their old stadium at Burnden Park or relocating to a new stadium in order to meet the health and safety requirements of the Taylor Report.

 

Feasibility studies showed that Burnden Park could not be converted or remodelled at a reasonable cost and therefore the decision was taken by Bolton Metropolitan Borough Council and Bolton Wanderers Football Club to move from their old stadium at Burnden Park and build a new state-of-the-art stadium at Middlebrook.

 

Are attendances up? Yes they were Because it coincided with promotion over the last ten years to the Prem, but they've dropped the last couple of seasons because the football on offer in the EPL is generally dire, and fans are seeing through Sky's hype now.

 

Is it a popular move? See this very thread, change the location from Aberdeen/Cove to Bolton/Horwich and you'll get the exact same arguments as I've already stated earlier. The majority of naysayers are those who had a short walk to Burnden and go on about having a pint, and traditional location, standing instead of sitting (like they would still be standing at Burnden? ) and the problems getting to Horwich (further away than Cove btw.). But for every one who has been inconvenienced there are those who havn't.

 

I've only been here just over 3 years, so Burnden was never an option, but my first visit to the Reebok I loved it and I was immediately won over the the modern stadium, contrast that with my first visit to StAndrews for example, which is a dump. If Bolton were still at Burnden I may not be a season ticket holder due to the hassle getting there. Pittodrie is much better than StAndrews, but much worse than the Reebok (or Ricoh built by the same company) in terms of venue, accessibility and location.

 

Is it a success? Yes, busy hotel, regular other events at the 'Bok, and office space that is largely, although not fully rented out. Exec boxes on both wing stands that are usually fully occupied. Anyone who wants to drive can park right by the stadium, or in the adjacent retail complex which is very busy but nothing to do with BWFC. New pubs have also sprung up just across the access road to the Reebok on the railway station side, these however are packed on match days, so many fans drink nearer Horwich then come down, beer of course is served inside the ground in England, so for me I don't care, I buy the Reebok lager instead and can take my seat and get served hassle free.

 

What's left at Burnden? Asda I believe, but nothing disastrous has befallen the area since Bolton moved, except for those who want to be 5 minutes from the ground.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

The same applies to other grounds in the EPL, like Boro, Makems and Wigan. Pretty similar scenarios.