Independence - Yay or Nay

[Dandy_Don]

Since the debate has moved on a bit in the past few months, wondered what the updated feeling was out there.

 

[Superstar Tradesman]

Yes, without a shadow of any doubt.

[Kowalski]

There's been so much shit from both sides it's getting boring.  And an awful lot of "opinions posted as facts" on social media that people are just getting tired of it.

 

I'm not even sure what a vote for independence means now - are we sharing the currency, head of state, BBC, NHS, Trident, pension funds, armed forces, foreign embassies etc.... or are we ditching all or some of these if we go independent?  Why have the SNP not published the full costs of independence?

 

Currency is still the main topic for me, and if we don't get a definite answer on what our currency will be then I will be voting no.  SNP say its the pound, Westminster says its not the pound, so which is it?  It would be a massive mistake if we ended up with the Euro IMHO.

 

Whether it's a yes or no vote, we could end up with a divided nation.

Certainly north of the central belt it appears to be largely a "no" vote at the moment, particularly in Aberdeen.

[Tyrant]

Yes, without a shadow of any doubt.

 

[Superstar Tradesman]

There's been so much shit from both sides it's getting boring.  And an awful lot of "opinions posted as facts" on social media that people are just getting tired of it.

 

I'm not even sure what a vote for independence means now - are we sharing the currency, head of state, BBC, NHS, Trident, pension funds, armed forces, foreign embassies etc.... or are we ditching all or some of these if we go independent?  Why have the SNP not published the full costs of independence?

 

Currency is still the main topic for me, and if we don't get a definite answer on what our currency will be then I will be voting no.  SNP say its the pound, Westminster says its not the pound, so which is it?  It would be a massive mistake if we ended up with the Euro IMHO.

 

Whether it's a yes or no vote, we could end up with a divided nation.

Certainly north of the central belt it appears to be largely a "no" vote at the moment, particularly in Aberdeen.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if the currency debate is the next 'bending of the truth' that is easily cleared up.

 

After all Danny Alexander has now admitted we can have the Beeb and the Lottery:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/19/bbc-share-with-independent-scotland

 

 

[Tyrant]

There's zero chance we'll end up with the Euro. The beauty of independence is that we can decide all those things. There would be a lengthy transitional period obviously. Initially things like the NHS would be shared.

 

It is and was never going to be easy but, honestly, I'll be fucking embarrassed if we pussy out because we're worried about teething issues. Norway had a very tough transition when they broke away from Sweden but it's fair to say they've done pretty well. It's going to be hard but nothing that's worth doing is easy. Just because it's going to be tough doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

[Kowalski]

They are hardly teething issues.

[tlg1903]

I honestly don't give a toss what picture is on the bank note in an independent Scotland. Currencies constantly fluctuate

[tlg1903]

Bonus of Scotland's voting yes number 236. Being able to sing "you're not British anymore" at the Huns.

[Tyrant]

Bonus of Scotland's voting yes number 236. Being able to sing "you're not British anymore" at the Huns.

 

 

[dave_min]

Bonus of Scotland's voting yes number 236. Being able to sing "you're not British anymore" at the Huns.

 

'Britain' is a geographic term.

 

You'll still be both British and Scottish regardless of how the vote goes.

 

I couldn't care less about currency, as long as it can be used to buy food and the like, I don't really care.

[tlg1903]

That is all well and good Dave but do you think the Huns would see it like that? "Where's your uk gone" "you're not British anymore" "we all agree, getting rid of the union was magic" would do their heads in imo

[Tyrant]

That is all well and good Dave but do you think the Huns would see it like that? "Where's your uk gone" "you're not British anymore" "we all agree, getting rid of the union was magic" would do their heads in imo

 

 

Salmond should get on that. It'll convince billions to vote yes.

[tom_widdows]

 

Salmond should get on that. It'll convince billions to vote yes.

 

I think Salmond is deliberately avoiding any mention of rangers or celtic as scottish independance should finally kill off any thoughts those 2 clubs have of playing in the english premiership.

 

Just watch the no vote go through the roof should that be set in stone.

 

[Nellie The Don]

I think Salmond is deliberately avoiding any mention of rangers or celtic as scottish independance should finally kill off any thoughts those 2 clubs have of playing in the english premiership.

Just watch the no vote go through the roof should that be set in stone.

 

1. Whit? Is that based on anything other than you wishing it were so?

2. Independence.

 

 

[tom_widdows]

1. Whit? Is that based on anything other than you wishing it were so?

2. Independence.

 

1. Scotland no longer part of the UK = FIFA's dream for a UK national football team goes out the window. If there is no 'Union' there is no chance of a UK national Team and SEVCO and partner lose whatever minimal justification they have for saying they have a right to play in the English League.

 

Something that trivial will be enough to get certain folk out to vote and given how many of their hordes there are in voting population it could easily be a major factor come September.

Same as if tomorrow FIFA announced the Scotland national team was losing its place in the next world cup in favour of a UK team I reckon a fair few folk would be straight down the council to register to vote YES in September.

 

Voters can be split into so many camps such as

'Those that research and make their decisions based on careful thought'

'Those who will vote the same way every-time no matter what

'Those who have no idea and effectively throw a dart at a notice board filled with names'

and of course

'those who will vote based on one populist topic banded about by the media without any thought as to what the other consequences their choice might bring - eg those who voted UKIP in the Euro elections based purely on their Immigration stance.

 

2. Typos? Really?

 

 

[Nellie The Don]

1. In the same manner that Vancouver Whitecaps have no right to play in the MLS, Wellington Phoenix in the A-League, AS Monaco in the French league, etc?

 

2. No, not really.  'Typo' is short for 'typographical error', implying that you hit a wrong key or some similar error.  You just can't spell. 

[tom_widdows]

1. In the same manner that Vancouver Whitecaps have no right to play in the MLS, Wellington Phoenix in the A-League, AS Monaco in the French league, etc?

 

2. No, not really.  'Typo' is short for 'typographical error', implying that you hit a wrong key or some similar error.  You just can't spell. 

 

Said Whitecaps along with  Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton & Ottowa might have had a bit of a problem getting into the MLS if Canada still had its professional football league but that went bust about 10 years ago.

 

Monaco not only doesnt have a professional league but is also not a registered FIFA or UEFA Nation. If they were then there would probably be problems

 

The only reason Wales now has a 'professional' league was that FIFA threatened to remove their world cup spot back in the early 90s because all of their clubs were playing in the English League.

 

Canada are unlikely to have this problem because unlike Wales they don't have a vote in the IFAB. (IFAB voting structure is as follows - FIFA 4 votes, FA 1 Vote, SFA 1 vote, FAW 1 vote, IFA 1 vote. 6-2 majority is required to make any changes. A UK football league/ team would free up 3 votes and Blatter could go hog wild)

 

But enough about football - This independEEEEEEEEEEEEnce malarky then?

 

 

[Kowalski]

If folk are voting for independence just to wind up the huns then we really do live in a fucked up country.

 

As for the currency and not caring what it is, just ask the Irish - the Euro has been a complete disaster.  The Yes campaign don't have a Plan B if we can't use the pound sterling, this is still the clincher for many people.

[dave_min]

If folk are voting for independence just to wind up the huns then we really do live in a fucked up country.

 

As for the currency and not caring what it is, just ask the Irish - the Euro has been a complete disaster.  The Yes campaign don't have a Plan B if we can't use the pound sterling, this is still the clincher for many people.

 

The Yes! Campaign offered a Plan A, B, C & D for currency, so you can hardly legitimately complain there isn't a 'Plan B'.

 

Claiming the Euro has been a complete disaster for Ireland is also being rather over-dramatic. The Irish themselves are as much to blame as the Euro for the mess they managed to get themselves into.

[Kowalski]

The Yes! Campaign offered a Plan A, B, C & D for currency, so you can hardly legitimately complain there isn't a 'Plan B'.

 

I must have missed it then, what is Plan B?

[Nellie The Don]

Plan A = A currency union

Plans B, C & D are retaining the pound without Westminster 'permission', a completely separate Scottish currency, and the Euro, not necessarily in that order, as it depends on the government of the day.

[dave_min]

1. Using GBP with a formal agreement.

2. Using GBP without a formal agreement.

3. Using EURO.

4. Using a new Scottish Currency.

 

My personal preference being #4.

 

[Kowalski]

1. Using GBP with a formal agreement.

2. Using GBP without a formal agreement.

3. Using EURO.

4. Using a new Scottish Currency.

 

My personal preference being #4.

 

I would agree.  Plan B would surely see interest rates set by a foreign country and a lack of control over the currency.

[Andrew]

If folk are voting for independence just to wind up the huns then we really do live in a fucked up country.

 

As for the currency and not caring what it is, just ask the Irish - the Euro has been a complete disaster.  The Yes campaign don't have a Plan B if we can't use the pound sterling, this is still the clincher for many people.

 

The same Ireland that went from one of the poorest nations in Europe after when it gained independence in the 20s to now being richer than the UK?

 

When we negotiate we will agree to keep trident in Scotland for x amount of years and Scotland will be able to keep using the BoE as the lender of the last resort with an eye on creating its on currency in the future.