Ryan Jack

[BobbyBiscuit]

Quinn, Shinnie and McLean were all captains of their respective clubs when we signed them, I believe.

 

Shinnie and Quinn were, Goodwin would have been captain of St Mirren when we got McLean. 

 

It's terrible isn't it, when a big club plunders other SPL clubs for their best players, it's ruining the game in this country...

[RicoS321]

Shinnie and Quinn were, Goodwin would have been captain of St Mirren when we got McLean.

 

I'm pretty certain McLean was made captain of St Ming after Goodwin went through a period of attacking opponents and getting suspended. He was certainly captain when we signed him.

[manc_don]

[DEREK McInnes may have sprung a surprise when he named Ryan Jack as his Aberdeen captain, but though he is just 23, the highly-rated midfielder has featured more than 150 times for the Dons since making his debut as a callow youth five years ago.

 

Since Mark McGhee, the then Pittodrie manager, offered him a home debut against Rangers which they lost 3-2, Jack has established himself as a leader, sitting alongside Willo Flood or Kenny McLean or, more rarely these days, Barry Robson, as the guardians of a defence that has conceded only one league goal from open play in their seven-win run.

 

McInnes will endeavour to lead his side to an eighth victory against Hearts at Tynecastle today as his skipper reiterates the strength of confidence inside Pittodrie which they displayed in the 1-0 win over Hamilton last Tuesday night.

 

“It’s certainly been a great start to the season,” Jack said, “It was import- ant to keep the run going by beating Hamilton. We showed great character and that’s been a hallmark of our play this season. If you want to have a successful season, as we do, then even when you’re involved in scrappy games you need to make sure you come out on top, which is what we did against Hamilton.”

 

Last weekend’s triumph over Celtic, courtesy of a penalty conversion from Adam Rooney and a late winner by Paul Quinn, instilled belief in the growing membership of the red army that their team are capable of mounting a serious championship challenge this season.

 

Two wins within three days has put them in pole position in the league, five points clear of Celtic as they go for a hat-trick of successes at Tyne- castle this afternoon.

 

Jack, pictured, suggested there would have been a hope within Parkhead that the Reds would falter against Accies.

 

“We know there were a lot of people watching us against Hamilton who would have been hoping we might have slipped up and dropped points,” he said, “but we answered those critics and now we are focused on beating Hearts, which will be a tough game in front of a sell-out crowd.

 

“We go in to every game expecting to win because when you look at our starting XI and the people we have on the bench, it gives all the players confidence. We all believe in each other and that’s important. We have a very strong squad and we approach games with a winning mentality.” If there is a concern about Aberdeen’s play, it would centre on a failure to translate their domination of games into goals, a point partially conceded by the former Scotland Under-21 star.

 

“The strikers have done well for us this season,” he said, “and we have players who can try to take scoring chances and if they don’t work out, then you can see they’re still confident to keep trying in front of goal.

 

“It’s not too worrying, but we have to make sure that, when we are on top of teams, we can kill them off. The way our defence has started allows the rest of the side to have greater confidence. Whether you’re in midfield or up front, it’s a good feeling to know you have a solid back four behind you as well as Danny Ward, the goalkeeper, who’s doing fantastically well in keeping five clean sheets.

 

“Great credit to the manager that he’s brought in such high quality players; it’s such a good squad. We have that depth in case we get an injury or two or if the manager feels he needs to change things. It wouldn’t weaken the starting XI in any way.”

 

Jack is looking forward to the test Hearts will provide today. “Hearts started the season really well after their promotion from the Championship and they came into the Premiership with their confidence high and that’s shown in their games,” he said. “The atmosphere will be great at Tyne- castle. It’s good to see Hearts back in the top flight.”

[manc_don]

Aberdeen captain Ryan Jack insists there has been no rift between players at Pittodrie and manager Derek McInnes.

 

And the 23-year-old midfielder said suggestions of in-fighting within the squad were "ridiculous".

"There has been a lot of rumours about players fighting and obviously ones about myself fighting with the manager, which is not the case," said Jack.

 

"Everyone is 100% behind each other. All the lads are 100% together and we're all 100% behind the manager."

After winning their first eight league matches of the season, Aberdeen have endured a slump in form which has seen them fail to win any of their last six matches.

 

The Dons, who have slipped to third in the Premiership, face bottom side Dundee United on Saturday at Pittodrie.

 

And Jack was quick to dismiss any talk of discord within the Aberdeen camp.

"As for the rumours, it's just ridiculous basically," he added.

 

"People have obviously just made up their own ways of seeing why the team has not been doing well. We are all together, we are all going to stick together, we are all going to work hard together and make sure we can put this right.

 

"We are training every day, we are training hard. The standard of training has been excellent. The players are looking sharp and looking fit."

 

Aberdeen have lost five out of their last six games, the other game a 1-1 home draw with Motherwell.

Jack feels fortune has evaded the side in recent weeks, saying: "Sometimes scenarios in games just haven't gone right for us.

 

"We haven't finished off a chance - for example, to make it 2-0 against Motherwell and then we concede late on.

"I think we are all just raring to go for Saturday."

 

Regardless of the above, I think (and hope) he needs to grow into the role a bit more.  There have clearly been times over the past 6 weeks he's been posted missing.  A rallying call in the press is fine, I just hope that it's followed up with a result on the weekend! 

[rocket_scientist]

Well that's good. It rules out one of the possibilities.

 

With 24/24 points v. 1/18, that's a slump that has gone from 100% for 8 games to 5.6% for the last 6.

 

Must be other reasons for it then, if it's not personnel disharmony and disunity.

 

Still wouldn't mind knowing what the reasons are for this slump.

 

Or more properly, I would like to know that the manager knows.

 

Good that Jack spoke publicly though. Appreciated.

 

[Edinburghdon]

Regardless of the above, I think (and hope) he needs to grow into the role a bit more.  There have clearly been times over the past 6 weeks he's been posted missing.  A rallying call in the press is fine, I just hope that it's followed up with a result on the weekend! 

 

Good, I'm glad he's come out and rubbished it, hopefully everyone can move on again and the team can turn things around.

[ayrshire_don74]

Only taken just over a month to say something, stellar

[Edinburghdon]

Only taken just over a month to say something, stellar

 

And how long have the rumours been widespread that Jack was fighting with Logan/McInnes? I can only remember seeing it on here/AFC chat over the last week or two, certainly not a month.  I could be wrong though.

 

[manc_don]

And how long have the rumours been widespread that Jack was fighting with Logan/McInnes? I can only remember seeing it on here/AFC chat over the last week or two, certainly not a month.  I could be wrong though.

 

I saw it on fezbook pretty much after the HIVs game.  Presumed it was rubbish and that normal service would resume the following weekend...

[Edinburghdon]

I saw it on fezbook pretty much after the HIVs game.  Presumed it was rubbish and that normal service would resume the following weekend...

 

Aye? Fair enough then. I can't say I noticed!

 

[manc_don]

Aye? Fair enough then. I can't say I noticed!

 

Either way, the team need to pull their socks up and start playing football.  As I said, all well and good having a rallying call in the press (about time too) but it needs to be followed up on the pitch.  Goalscoring has always been an issue, or rather taking our chances but we need to tighten up at the back first and foremost.  No fucking about.  Hopefully him coming out in the press will give everyone a kick up the arse.  At least we're playing the Arabs so the crowd should be up for it too.

[Edinburghdon]

Either way, the team need to pull their socks up and start playing football.  As I said, all well and good having a rallying call in the press (about time too) but it needs to be followed up on the pitch.  Goalscoring has always been an issue, or rather taking our chances but we need to tighten up at the back first and foremost.  No fucking about.  Hopefully him coming out in the press will give everyone a kick up the arse.  At least we're playing the Arabs so the crowd should be up for it too.

 

I'd argue that there was signs of us being back to our usual standard in spells against Celtic and going on what Mcinnes said it was the same against Motherwell.  Here's hoping that continues and we get back on top form starting this weekend.

[manc_don]

I'd argue that there was signs of us being back to our usual standard in spells against Celtic and going on what Mcinnes said it was the same against Motherwell.  Here's hoping that continues and we get back on top form starting this weekend.

 

Don't disagree, I genuinely felt we should have got something from that game, or at least made more of it.  Had any of those previous chances (Rooney / PeePaw) gone in, who knows what the game would have turned out to be. More decisiveness and less fuckaboutery at the back.

[thestooge]

I've never bought into the dressing room bust up thing like but it's good Jack has at least tried to dispel the rumours.

 

I thought it was a good interview from him.  I think he'll be a good captain, he's nae even 20 games into that role yet so I'll not write him off yet, especially as that period has included our best ever start in the league and some reasonable Euro performances, even if we're in the shite now.

 

I was looking at some stats after the Celtic game.  My father-in-law was bemoaning our possession stats, and shots at goal and on target as an indicator of a worrying performance.  What I found interesting was that when you compared the stats of our game and the recent Hearts and United visits to Celtic Park, the stats were near identical, though ours were fractionally better than the other two.  Those three games resulted in United getting bummed, Hearts getting a point and us getting defeated.  For me, it stressed the importance of small margins of error.

 

I had a wee look at the stats from some of our other games and thought it was also interesting.

 

Vs ICT, the first league defeat, we had 52% possession and near double the shots and corners of ICT but we obviously lost.  The stats vs County were near identical, we had slightly more of the ball and we had about a dozen shots on goal.

 

The previous away win, we'd pumped Hearts, yet we had less possession than them and fewer shots and corners.

 

The away game before that, vs Partick, the possession stats were broadly similar to the ICT/County game but we had fewer shots.

 

Out of those four games, the best stats we had were in the two we lost.

 

I had a wee look at home games too, we've only lost 1 at home and drawn 1 so even in the current slump, we're nae exactly dramatically under performing at Pittodrie (though I accept the one defeat was pretty feckin spectacular).

 

What was interesting was that the home stats were very similar to the away stats, we generally edge possession, somewhere around the 53-55% mark.  We generally have around 10 shots at goal.  We generally have 7-9 corners.  This appears to have been largely consistent through the good run and the downturn, both home and away.

 

Stats, especially pretty limited ones like possession, shots, and corners, dinna tell you a whole story but, for me, they reinforce my feeling that the dip has been down to those small margins going against us.

 

In our good run, I think we got lucky a couple of times, equally, I think we've been a little unlucky in the dip.  Folks, understandably, have focused on the monumental extremes of an 8 game winning streak capitulating into a run of 6 without one and felt there has to be a bigger reason for it, hence all the bust up chat and wife shagging drama.

 

In reality though, we rode our luck a little early in the season, we only scored more than 2 goals once in the league and a lack of goals, despite creating opportunities was an issue last season too.  We've been conceding more goals recently and to me that's down to a managerial failing to pick a settled back line.

 

The change in results has been extreme but the stats seem to indicate the performances have been broadly similar, we've just, obviously, scored less and conceded more.  A bit of continuity at the back and I'm confident we'll sort out the goals conceded, we do have good defenders for this level, we just need to play them in the same order for a few games on the bounce.  The goal scoring remains an issue, the summer acquisitions haven't addressed this and basically without Rooney, we're fucked.  The faith shown in Goodwillie remains unfathomable to me, one or two good showings aside, but McGinn, Pawlett and Hayes need to contribute more goals too.  I'd be shipping Pawlett out when his contract expires, he's had long enough to develop, but he's just not cutting it.  I think McLean is a fine player and the five goals he's contributed so far this season show he's capable, but I think he's still not fitting into our system, which may well be the fault of McInnes for again shifting him about the park a bit and not really seeming to know what he wants from him.

 

In short, I still have a lot of faith in this side.  We've good players throughout the team.  I think McInnes needs to shoulder much of the blame for the recent poor results but I think we'll come good again, hopefully on Saturday.  It's easy to be critical when things are bad and it's easy to get carried away when you're on a role.  In reality though, the gap between us and ICT/St J/Ross County/etc is far smaller than the gap between ourselves and Celtic, even if we have narrowed that over the last couple of years.

 

 

[BobbyBiscuit]

 

I was looking at some stats after the Celtic game.  My father-in-law was bemoaning our possession stats, and shots at goal and on target as an indicator of a worrying performance.  What I found interesting was that when you compared the stats of our game and the recent Hearts and United visits to Celtic Park, the stats were near identical, though ours were fractionally better than the other two.  Those three games resulted in United getting bummed, Hearts getting a point and us getting defeated.  For me, it stressed the importance of small margins of error.

 

 

Or stresses how unimportant stats such as possession really are.

[BobbyBiscuit]

"Sometimes scenarios in games just haven't gone right for us.

 

If the scenario he's talking about is him not trying a fucking leg in the past few weeks he's spot on, that really didn't go right for us at all.

 

[Goldie03]

There are lies, dammed lies & stastistics!!

 

I have to say I'm a bit bemused that our recent appalling slump has happened at all if the training is so fantastic and the players are closer than a band of brothers in the 2nd world war. Certainly not what everyone is seeing on the pitch or in the results.

 

Glad that Jack has cleared that up tho 

[BobbyBiscuit]

There are lies, dammed lies & stastistics!!

 

I have to say I'm a bit bemused that our recent appalling slump has happened at all if the training is so fantastic and the players are closer than a band of brothers in the 2nd world war. Certainly not what everyone is seeing on the pitch or in the results.

 

Glad that Jack has cleared that up tho 

 

Spot on.

 

It's incredible how many of our fans want to believe a few glib cliches when it suits them.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Stats like possession are irrelevant in football, just an indicator of the pattern of play. The only thing that matters is goals, scoring more than the opposition do specifically.

 

When a team goes from a performance like v. Hearts to complete a 24/24 to then fall in a hole, there will be reasons for it. It was the manner of the 3-0 v. Hearts that was so fantastic, one of the best performances I've seen by an AFC team this century, if not the best. How can a team with that much desire, passion, skill and speed serve up abject shite like they have since? It's a problem I tell thee and the answers are not to be found in stats and apologetic hard luck sentiments. Life is ruthless. Winning is about being ruthless. Losers can't even spell roothless let alone understand the need for it.

[thestooge]

Or stresses how unimportant stats such as possession really are.

 

It's one interpretation, but I think most managers and clubs use statistics on a constant basis to inform their decisions in the modern game.

 

Statistics don't tell the whole story but they do develop the narrative and provide evidence within a context.

 

When I say I think we should start Rooney ahead of Goodwillie 19/20 times, I'd use the fact Goodwillie has 8 goals in 56 appearances compared to Rooney's 45 in 85 appearances to justify it.

 

When you say Jack isn't trying a leg, I'd say that you're mistaken and evidence that our possession stats have remained fairly constant, with Jack central to our possession game as evidence.  I'm not saying that Jack has necessarily played well by saying that though, but if Jack wasn't trying, you'd expect our stats to diminish dramatically.  I'd suggest that in the context of our poor run of form, McInnes is being particularly risk averse, he's likely to be requiring Jack to reinforce the defence, so your perception that Jack isn't trying is Jack being disciplined and maintaining a defensive position.  McInnes is probably stressing ball retention so again, Jack playing a short sideways pass is exactly what the manager is after but it's frustrating for the fans after more dynamism.

 

When you look at McInnes results at other clubs, he does seem to have wild fluctuations in form.  Even when he got St J promoted he went 5 games without a win, 4 games without a win and 3 games without a win twice.  When his side dropped points, it was unusual for them to bounce back with a win immediately.  When he's in the SPL, and I appreciate St J are not Aberdeen, even if he was developing his reputation as a good manager then, he went 7 games, 6 games and 5 games without a win in the same year.  Similar picture at Bristol Rovers, a period of decent form was followed by a serious dip (that's ultimately what got him the sack, as he couldn't turn things around with limited resources).

 

Even if Jack/McInnes/Logan had fallen out, I'm not sure how that results in our dip in form either.  Again, Celtic seem to have huge issues with infighting and a dressing room divide between senior players and managers yet, in the SPL at least, they have been very comfortable reasserting their dominance.  Dougie Bell was on Off The Ball the other week saying similar, basically throughout his career, he'd had various fall outs and punch ups but that those incidents had little or no impact on the 90 minutes of football on the pitch.

 

For me, our form will return will come not when players and management kiss and make up, or when certain individuals are shown the door but when the manager starts making the right decisions again and the players get a bit of confidence back.  Hopefully that'll start on Saturday.

[Reidzer 1314]

Lets be honest, Jack wasn't going to come out and say that him and Logan tried to chin each other and that McInnes chewed out half the squad and upset a few people, of course he was going to try and smooth things over, its what happens.

 

Hopefully tomorrow will bring a positive result and performance, we badly need it.

[thestooge]

Lets be honest, Jack wasn't going to come out and say that him and Logan tried to chin each other and that McInnes chewed out half the squad and upset a few people, of course he was going to try and smooth things over, its what happens.

 

 

That's been said a few times but there are lots of instances where clubs have addressed training ground bust ups head on, not least Delia just the other week.  Plenty other clubs would just stop the questions being asked or would put up a wall of silence.

 

Jack has come out and publicly, categorically denied the rumours.  If you think he's lying, fair dos but until there is actual evidence to suggest otherwise, I'll take him at face value.

[BobbyBiscuit]

It's one interpretation, but I think most managers and clubs use statistics on a constant basis to inform their decisions in the modern game.

 

Statistics don't tell the whole story but they do develop the narrative and provide evidence within a context.

 

 

Celtic were coasting against us for the last what, 25 mins or so? They weren't particularly bothered if we had the ball, they got their shape right and were happy for us to have the ball in midfield and essentially play in front of them. That skews the stats. What were the possession stats when the game was closer? And regardless of the answer, it doesn't really make any difference. We lost 3-1. Played ok for a spell and then didn't for another spell and left with nothing.

 

As for Jack not trying a leg - i've seen it with my own eyes. Try and back it up with stats if you want, but my eyes don't lie and in particular against Motherwell, it seemed like most of the South Stand had a similar view to mine. His attitude was utterly horrendous, I was disgusted with him and still am.  Do you think his attempt against Bitton (?) for the third last Saturday was indicative of someone giving their all? If that was him giving his all then maybe he's just not cut out for it, but I don't think that's the case at all. 

 

And clearly McInnes wasn't happy with him either on Saturday.  Shinnie was on a yellow and yet Jack still gets hooked?

[thestooge]

They weren't particularly bothered if we had the ball, they got their shape right and were happy for us to have the ball in midfield and essentially play in front of them. That skews the stats. 

 

Celtic dominated the possession stats, as they did vs United (5-0) and Hearts (0-0).  At home, Celtic generally have between 62-65% of possession.  The only time that's not broadly been the case is in Europe vs Qarabag, Fenerbache and Molde.  For me, that shows the gulf in class between Celtic and the rest of the SPL.  Celtic had 30 shots against us, we were soundly beaten.

 

I'm not trying to defend the performance against Celtic, indeed I'm saying that, sadly, the stats show how much closer we are to the rest of the SPL than we are to them.

 

What I was saying was that the stats in the Celtic games emphasise how small margins of error are.

 

Hearts have taken our 2nd spot in the league table and are being praised for their 0-0 draw at Celtic Park.  Yet they were battered for 90 minutes, much like we and United were.  In all three games the possession stats were similar (ours slightly more favourable), and in all three games Celtic had in excess of 20 shots at goal.  United managed 3 shots themselves, Hearts 5, us 7.  I was using the stats of the Celtic game to basically show that Hearts were lucky to get a point, that we appear to be slightly better than our SPL rivals but that the gulf in class remains extensive.

 

I was also using stats to suggest that our dramatic dip in form does not appear to have been the result in certain individuals downing tools as we've retained relatively similar game statistics throughout the good and bad run, though clearly the conversion of our own chances has dropped and the punishment of our errors has increased.

 

Again, I think that indicates a lack of confidence up front and defensive instability due to an ever rotating back line.

 

I also don't doubt that there have been harsh words said in the dressing room during this poor run, you'd absolutely expect it, wouldn't you?  I just don't think those harsh words have resulted in a catastrophic breakdown of relationships and that those harsh words are a symptom of bad form rather than the cause of it.

 

Why did Jack come off rather than Shinnie?  There could be any number of reasons.  If he genuinely wasn't trying a leg though, you'd need to question why the manager didn't remove him from proceedings before the game was over as a contest.

[BobbyBiscuit]

If he genuinely wasn't trying a leg though, you'd need to question why the manager didn't remove him from proceedings before the game was over as a contest.

 

Yip. I do. I actually questionned why he was playing at all after his showing the previous week.

 

As for the rest of your post(s), I can see you're trying to show these things with possession stats - I'm saying they're broadly irrelevant; they don't take into account playing styles, situations specific to the match (injuries, for example) or patterns of play. Football isn't a science. There are certain stats which will be useful but unfortunately the vast majority of stats which are available to us are broadly irrelevant.

 

There is so much noise around football now, and the stats are part of that to bolster the volume to keep people talking for longer. When it comes down to it, most of it is just dust and wind. 

 

Hearts have taken our 2nd spot in the league table and are being praised for their 0-0 draw at Celtic Park.  Yet they were battered for 90 minutes, much like we and United were.  In all three games the possession stats were similar (ours slightly more favourable), and in all three games Celtic had in excess of 20 shots at goal.  United managed 3 shots themselves, Hearts 5, us 7.  I was using the stats of the Celtic game to basically show that Hearts were lucky to get a point, that we appear to be slightly better than our SPL rivals but that the gulf in class remains extensive.

 

How did the shots come about? Maybe Aberdeen only had 3 attacks in the whole game  (ok we know they didn't)but got 7 shots out of it - rebounds off the keeper leading to another shot etc and maybe Hearts had 20 attacks with 18 crosses - is that better? It certainly paints more of a picture than the stats you've used.

 

Back on topic... Ryan Jack needs to get his finger out this weekend.  I really hope he does.