Shay Logan

[Edinburghdon]

Your whole tone and the condescension within disgusts.

 

This to me is one of the best things I've ever read on here, the irony is incredible!

 

What was it down to then?

 

Who knows, frustration and lack of confidence after a dip in form? Not being 100% fit? Struggling to adapt to a lesser role in our attack? Nobody knows for sure and It could be anything so to write it off as a simple lack of effort without taking some time to consider the situation is really jumping to conclusions.

 

 

It's ok to have different opinions. It's not ok to be a total arse fuck up.

 

Good, this is progress! I'm glad we can agree it's ok to have different opinions. You may want to remember that pearl of wisdom next time you pounce on someone else's completely valid opinion and go on another blood pressure raising rant which only really serves to amuse 

 

If you were there, how did you interpret Clangers berating of McGinn?

 

He had been shite for weeks. His team-mates saw it. We all saw it. Where were you?

 

Sitting on Internet boards being a smart arse sad fuck?

 

I'll hold my hands up, you've got me there... I can't honestly remember this game so I'll assume I wasn't there, I'll need to think back to what I was doing if you're really interested?  When was this game? How did we play? Was it a good game? Did you have fun?

 

However players berate their team mates on a regular basis, it's even happened this season on a couple of occasions already. Forgive me if I don't consider this a huge deal. It happens and will continue to happen, I happen to think it's a good thing... I'm glad we've got a culture within this team where players can be held accountable when they make mistakes or aren't at the races.

 

[rocket_scientist]

It must be tough being you.

 

You should be kinder to us less fortunate and less enlightened.

[Edinburghdon]

It must be tough being you.

 

You should be kinder to us less fortunate and less enlightened.

 

 

Night night rocket, sweet dreams xx

[rocket_scientist]

I'm sure you've found in life that arseholes exist.

 

Your profound instinct informs you so.

 

But those who lack love or compassion stand out for that very failing.

 

It can't be helped. Damaged goods.

[Edinburghdon]

I'm sure you've found in life that arseholes exist.

 

Your profound instinct informs you so.

 

But those who lack love or compassion stand out for that very failing.

 

It can't be helped. Damaged goods.

 

This makes me sad, I was hoping we could be friends 

 

Anyway back on topic... Shay Logan, good player!

[rocket_scientist]

This makes me sad, I was hoping we could be friends 

 

Anyway back on topic... Shay Logan, good player!

 

That's a complete lie. Friendship isn't what smart cunts like you covet.

 

You remind me of an Aberdeen fan who I haven't seen for more than half my life. He grew up in Airyhall or Criaigiebuckler or Countesswells or some equally shit middle class environ. He was tall and generally regarded as good looking but some of us knew his "golden boy" external projection masked a deep sadness, beyond the obvious that there was nothing of substance within, him being middle class in everything.

 

He moved to Edinburgh in the early 80's and quite proud of that he was too.

 

Our "capital" isn't fit to be described as such following the referendum. Not that it was fit for purpose before. Irvine Welsh is a great Scotsman and the best thing to have come out of there. The lawyers and the politicians that pollute our second city are a disgrace to humanity, let alone Scotland.

 

Pompous know it all cunts. Maybe there's something in the air you cunts breathe down there.

[Edinburghdon]

That's a complete lie. Friendship isn't what smart cunts like you covet.

 

You remind me of an Aberdeen fan who I haven't seen for more than half my life. He grew up in Airyhall or Criaigiebuckler or Countesswells or some equally shit middle class environ. He was tall and generally regarded as good looking but some of us knew his "golden boy" external projection masked a deep sadness, beyond the obvious that there was nothing of substance within, him being middle class in everything.

 

He moved to Edinburgh in the early 80's and quite proud of that he was too.

 

Our "capital" isn't fit to be described as such following the referendum. Not that it was fit for purpose before. Irvine Welsh is a great Scotsman and the best thing to have come out of there. The lawyers and the politicians that pollute our second city are a disgrace to humanity, let alone Scotland.

 

Pompous know it all cunts. Maybe there's something in the air you cunts breathe down there.

 

You may be on to something there... Well you may be if I'd actually been born or brought up in Edinburgh, or had lived there for longer than the time I was at uni. Unfortunately I'm just too lazy to change my username after having registered on donstalk when I still lived down there.

 

None of which has much to do with the merits of Shay Logan as a player, or the offshoot of this thread discussing McGinn.

 

I like the golden boy comparison though, you're sweet you wee charmer

[rocket_scientist]

It doesn't matter whether it was a lack of effort, demotivation, nose out of joint cos he wasn't playing where he wanted to be or whatever other spurious excuse you contrive. It is fact that he was shite for an extended period, an unacceptable one, one that you didn't even acknowledge. Rather, you tried to argue that he was never guilty of a lack of effort and even more stupidly, tried to invent excuses for his "apologetic" and equally unacceptable behaviour.

 

There's a ton of pressure on McGinn - and McInnes - for him to start producing when it really matters as he's never done so before. Our team has never been close to winning the league. And that's the whole point.

 

SAF had high profile players in Archibald and Strachan. Infinitely superior footballers to McGinn of course but deemed totally unacceptable for AFC. McGinn is probably our best footballer but is playing for us on 3rd division wages for a reason. You can come up with all the excuses you want but I suspect you're not actually that experienced in this game or otherwise know fuck all about anything. But I've made mistakes before and will do again but in this, your retractions and deflections paint a pretty defined pattern.

 

[Edinburghdon]

It doesn't matter whether it was a lack of effort, demotivation, nose out of joint cos he wasn't playing where he wanted to be or whatever other spurious excuse you contrive. It is fact that he was shite for an extended period, an unacceptable one, one that you didn't even acknowledge. Rather, you tried to argue that he was never guilty of a lack of effort and even more stupidly, tried to invent excuses for his "apologetic" and equally unacceptable behaviour.

 

There's a ton of pressure on McGinn - and McInnes - for him to start producing when it really matters as he's never done so before. Our team has never been close to winning the league. And that's the whole point.

 

SAF had high profile players in Archibald and Strachan. Infinitely superior footballers to McGinn of course but deemed totally unacceptable for AFC. McGinn is probably our best footballer but is playing for us on 3rd division wages for a reason. You can come up with all the excuses you want but I suspect you're not actually that experienced in this game or otherwise know fuck all about anything. But I've made mistakes before and will do again but in this, your retractions and deflections paint a pretty defined pattern.

 

Of course it matters, there's a huge difference between being out of form and playing poorly because of a lack of effort, if you can't see that then I give up arguing with you as there's no point in trying to get you to see the point I'm making.  I've never said it's acceptable to be shite for an extended period, but it's a fact of life that players have spells where they are out of form, it happens and I firmly believe that things didn't click for him during that period rather than the lack of effort you've obviously convinced yourself of him being guilty of. It's no much wonder your tone and attitude towards other posters rub people up the wrong way, it's like battering your head against a brick wall trying to put any alternative point to you.

 

Also, I've never claimed to be experienced in the game or any of the other nonsense you've dreamed up in your head, I'm just a football fan like any other on this forum who forms their own opinion based on what I see. You've obviously formed a different opinion, enjoy getting worked up over McGinns "unacceptable behaviour" 

 

Oh and there have been no deflections from me... As far as I know I've responded to every "point" you've made, but don't let that get in your way!

[tom_widdows]

So this Shay Logan character......

 

40/1 to be first scorer on Saturday and 500/1 to score a hat-trick.

 

 

[BobbyBiscuit]

 

 

There's a ton of pressure on McGinn - and McInnes - for him to start producing when it really matters as he's never done so before. Our team has never been close to winning the league. And that's the whole point.

 

 

The guy with the most assists in our team? Is that not "producing"? 

 

Really not sure why you're so angry about this dip in form he had - he's been our best player since Christmas and easily our best player this season on what I've seen. 

[rocket_scientist]

The guy with the most assists in our team? Is that not "producing"? 

 

Really not sure why you're so angry about this dip in form he had - he's been our best player since Christmas and easily our best player this season on what I've seen.

 

I've said he's our best footballer. I'm not angry about when he was playing poorly. As frustrated as the rest of us, yes but not angry about McGinn.

 

The boy said that McGinn was never guilty of not putting in. He didn't even acknowledge that he had a dip in form at all originally. Rather, he denied that he was ever not trying hard enough and incredibly insultingly, said that any of us who thought that McGinn ever hasn't produced enough effort was clouding their judgement because of that goal at Parkhead. I don't know how you interpret plain words but that came across as pompous, snidey, kiard and know-it-all to me. It's easy to throw out general insults on the internet. Mine isn't a general insult, it's a specific observation on a specific post. His subsequent more than proves his nature.

 

 

[Edinburghdon]

I've said he's our best footballer. I'm not angry about when he was playing poorly. As frustrated as the rest of us, yes but not angry about McGinn.

 

The boy said that McGinn was never guilty of not putting in. He didn't even acknowledge that he had a dip in form at all originally. Rather, he denied that he was ever not trying hard enough and incredibly insultingly, said that any of us who thought that McGinn ever hasn't produced enough effort was clouding their judgement because of that goal at Parkhead. I don't know how you interpret plain words but that came across as pompous, snidey, kiard and know-it-all to me. It's easy to throw out general insults on the internet. Mine isn't a general insult, it's a specific observation on a specific post. His subsequent more than proves his nature.

 

Don't let it ruin your argument or anything but I've acknowledged he had a dip in form on numerous occasions. (Including my first post...) 

[thestooge]

I think McGinn is a superb asset, I don't think anyone disputes that.  Even when he's out of form, he's still often the man most likely to do something as he's got the skill to create something out of nothing.

 

He has gone through a couple of prolonged spells of not scoring or not quite contributing as much as he can.  I'd argue that that isn't anything to do with a lack of effort or commitment to the cause from the loon but simply down to the margins of error involved.  Last season as an example, he had about 4 or 5 games on the bounce where he hit the woodwork.

 

On Shay, I'll be sad when he leaves.  Very solid player and a good character.  I like him a lot.  Can understand why he's looking to move down south though did have a chuckle over hearing two of our youth players discussing his situation, which basically went along the lines of "Everyone's talking about him going home to be near his new kid, he's got heaps of kids though, he needs to find classier women".

[rocket_scientist]

Of course it matters, there's a huge difference between being out of form and playing poorly because of a lack of effort, if you can't see that then I give up arguing with you as there's no point in trying to get you to see the point I'm making.  I've never said it's acceptable to be shite for an extended period, but it's a fact of life that players have spells where they are out of form, it happens and I firmly believe that things didn't click for him during that period rather than the lack of effort you've obviously convinced yourself of him being guilty of.

 

Read carefully.

 

I said that there's no difference between being demotivated, having one's nose out of joint or not trying hard enough.

 

You're getting confused.

 

Being out of form is the symptom, one that you didn't even acknowledge at first. On the contrary, you said that he was never guilty of not trying hard enough and said that anyone who thought this was so thick as to cloud their judgement because of one incident at Parkhead.

 

What causes the symptom is what we've moved on to.

 

In my experience, the biggest contributor to a loss in form - not just football - is a lack of, or a dip in confidence.

 

A lack of confidence is a completely different cause than not trying hard enough.

 

Before you "give up arguing", it's best to crystallise and understand what the argument is. Perhaps your confusion stems from your prejudice, a word that involves you making pre-judgements, for example: -

 

It's no much wonder your tone and attitude towards other posters rub people up the wrong way, it's like battering your head against a brick wall trying to put any alternative point to you.

 

Not only are you so incredibly pompous to tell us we've got clouded judgement if we don't accept your view that McGinn has never suffered from a lack of effort, without even acknowledging that he had a major dip in form, without having the courtesy to tell us why he did (which of course you couldn't because you didn't acknowledge it), you're so superior, insightful and enlightened that you can speak on behalf of everyone.

 

I'm not having a go at anyone else here. You spoke shite, I pulled you up on it and you blame me? Weirdo.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Don't let it ruin your argument or anything but I've acknowledged he had a dip in form on numerous occasions. (Including my first post...) 

 

So you dismiss those of us who were there, who were watching, over many years when we say McGinn had an extended period of a dip in form (that we now agree on) as having clouded judgement based on one incident only and yet you do not offer an alternative cause for the symptom?

 

Before you vehemently deny that he was ever not trying hard enough, you must have formed your own alternative explanation, one that is such a big secret you're not going to share it.

 

[rocket_scientist]

I think McGinn is a superb asset, I don't think anyone disputes that.  Even when he's out of form, he's still often the man most likely to do something as he's got the skill to create something out of nothing.

 

Agreed.

 

 

He has gone through a couple of prolonged spells of not scoring or not quite contributing as much as he can.  I'd argue that that isn't anything to do with a lack of effort or commitment to the cause from the loon but simply down to the margins of error involved.  Last season as an example, he had about 4 or 5 games on the bounce where he hit the woodwork.

 

I can't remember "a couple of prolonged spells". I remember one extended period that lasted many weeks and therefore months. This was before he was hitting the woodwork last season. We are not talking about the same time period. He was miles better last season and back to close to his potential quality, which is undoubted.

 

That it happened at all and for as long as it did is down to either the player, his manager or both. Whilst his form has been miles better for the last year and a bit than it was when - insert reason for his non-performance during season 2013/14 - he's still never hit the same heights that I believe he's capable of, as he showed three years ago when he was hungry as hell, scoring for fun and buzzing all over the pitch.

 

Our best player, back to making good contributions to the cause and one who is overdue to do something against his beloved hoops. We've never competed with Celtic, neither head-to-head nor for the league. To do so, we need every player performing their best and a manager who puts out a well organised and well motivated unit. It may be that the Norwegian is a better manager than McInnes. It is more probable that they have better technical players all over the pitch. Christ we haven't had a competent keeper for over a decade until a couple of months ago. But the game isn't won on technical ability alone so our failing to get close to Celtic for years has other reasons. I hope it's this season that we finally break through but I reckon the bookies have got it right, again, unfortunately.

 

 

[Edinburghdon]

So you dismiss those of us who were there, who were watching, over many years when we say McGinn had an extended period of a dip in form (that we now agree on) as having clouded judgement based on one incident only and yet you do not offer an alternative cause for the symptom?

 

Before you vehemently deny that he was ever not trying hard enough, you must have formed your own alternative explanation, one that is such a big secret you're not going to share it.

 

This is getting tiresome now and totally off topic...

 

I've already stated that he has suffered from dips in form, which you've conveniently ignored and claimed I hadn't a couple of times now and I've already said I do not believe its due to a lack of effort. I've also already said that it could be caused by a loss of confidence, struggling adapting to a new role, slight injuries or most likely a combination of some/all of those. Continuing to claim I've not acknowledged the fact he's had spells when his form has dipped or that I haven't offered possible explainations for this based on my opinion is incorrect, reading back through my replies will show you that.

 

As mentioned last night it's my opinion (based on what I've seen, with my own eyes, at games, in the Aberdeen end) that he's never looked like he's lacking in effort or isn't trying during his dips in form. What you're having trouble with in that I have no idea but I stand by my opinion.

 

Now... Shay Logan...

[rocket_scientist]

This is getting tiresome now and totally off topic...

 

I've already stated that he has suffered from dips in form, which you've conveniently ignored and claimed I hadn't a couple of times now and I've already said I do not believe its due to a lack of effort. I've also already said that it could be caused by a loss of confidence, struggling adapting to a new role, slight injuries or most likely a combination of some/all of those. Continuing to claim I've not acknowledged the fact he's had spells when his form has dipped or that I haven't offered possible explainations for this based on my opinion is incorrect, reading back through my replies will show you that.

 

As mentioned last night it's my opinion (based on what I've seen, with my own eyes, at games, in the Aberdeen end) that he's never looked like he's lacking in effort or isn't trying during his dips in form. What you're having trouble with in that I have no idea but I stand by my opinion.

 

Now... Shay Logan...

 

Ok, I misunderstood. I apologise. You did acknowledge that he has suffered dips in form.

 

Your haughty dismissal of his not suffering a lack of effort and suggesting that the vast majority of us who do think this (in the real world, as we saw with our own eyes and were discussing for months) were so stupid as to cloud our judgement based on that one incident was objectionable. Particularly when you acknowledge you don't have an alternative view and were just speculating and floundering when pushed.

[Edinburghdon]

Ok, I misunderstood. I apologise. You did acknowledge that he has suffered dips in form.

 

Your haughty dismissal of his not suffering a lack of effort and suggesting that the vast majority of us who do think this (in the real world, as we saw with our own eyes and were discussing for months) were so stupid as to cloud our judgement based on that one incident was objectionable. Particularly when you acknowledge you don't have an alternative view and were just speculating and floundering when pushed.

 

Nonsense, I've offered alternative views numerous times now. If you refuse to see that then there's not much I can do...

 

Although unless you're Niall McGinn it is all just speculation.

[thestooge]

Agreed.

 

 

I can't remember "a couple of prolonged spells". I remember one extended period that lasted many weeks and therefore months. This was before he was hitting the woodwork last season. We are not talking about the same time period. He was miles better last season and back to close to his potential quality, which is undoubted.

 

 

 

The longest period was around the turn of the year the season before last.  It lasted about three months.  I got called a cunt on Aberdeen-Mad on a daily basis for pointing out that he wasn't delivering his usual return and for suggesting his business interests and prolific shagging were perhaps distractions.  Others suggested it was due to his different role in the team and those margins of errors.  I think they were probably right and my speculation was off the mark. 

 

He did have a prolonged spell last season, during which he was hitting the woodwork frequently, from the end of August through until the start of Dec where he didn't score.  That was in excess of ten games.  He also only scored 1 goal last season from mid-Feb until the end of the season, just the 1 goal in 12 games.

[rocket_scientist]

The longest period was around the turn of the year the season before last.  It lasted about three months.  I got called a cunt on Aberdeen-Mad on a daily basis for pointing out that he wasn't delivering his usual return and for suggesting his business interests and prolific shagging were perhaps distractions.  Others suggested it was due to his different role in the team and those margins of errors.  I think they were probably right and my speculation was off the mark. 

 

He did have a prolonged spell last season, during which he was hitting the woodwork frequently, from the end of August through until the start of Dec where he didn't score.  That was in excess of ten games.  He also only scored 1 goal last season from mid-Feb until the end of the season, just the 1 goal in 12 games.

 

Now we have consensus. It was about three months or so in the season 2013/14 from my memory when he looked disinterested and wasn't producing, as the whole team weren't of course. The reasons for this are what we're speculating on. I say that it is the role of the manager to first identify this and then to fix it. We, in the pubs and attending the games, were all wanting McGinn to be dropped, to get a kick up the arse, to remind him that this level of performance and commitment was unacceptable. SAF got rid of much lesser footballers than McGinn for the same crime but it isn't fair to compare AFC of 30 years ago with the AFC today. We were a good football team then, capable of winning the league, something this squad still isn't deep enough to do.

 

It's also not fair to compare the best manger in history with a relatively young, inexperienced and as yet un-proven one that is the present incumbent, although he's doing well and is the best we've had for decades.

 

There is an entitlement culture within young sportsmen today. There isn't the same passion and commitment generally, not just in football. The die for the jersey mentality has become increasingly rare. McGinn the best we have but if he had, or was managed, inspired and coached to have the requisite killer mentality, he wouldn't be here. It's his number one failing in my book and the reason why he's playing for us and will never reach his full potential.

 

Logan isn't nearly as strong or as skilled a footballer but he never fails to give his all. A good manager demands getting total effort all the time from all of the players. The best and most successful teams have this as a given.

[BobbyBiscuit]

 

He did have a prolonged spell last season, during which he was hitting the woodwork frequently, from the end of August through until the start of Dec where he didn't score.  That was in excess of ten games.  He also only scored 1 goal last season from mid-Feb until the end of the season, just the 1 goal in 12 games.

 

Although I'd expect McGinn to score more goals than he did last season, i think a more accurate measure of his effectiveness (if we must use stats) will be his assists and there's no one better than him for that.

[Edinburghdon]

Although I'd expect McGinn to score more goals than he did last season, i think a more accurate measure of his effectiveness (if we must use stats) will be his assists and there's no one better than him for that.

 

Based on his role in the team McInnes sets out I'd agree completely.

[thestooge]

I dinna disagree either.  I'd also say that, in the past, McGinn would have been on penalty duty and his goal tally inflated as a result.