Shinnie

[RicoS321]

You admit that his best position is LB. Not that you can not, as this is screamingly obvious.

 

Since when does a team succeed playing footballers not in their strongest positions?

 

It's nothing to do with "succeeding", as that is a subjective measure based on expectation. It is whether a team is better or worse with a player in one position or another.

 

You're right that he's the only one in the middle with heart, with guts, with determination.

 

That he stands out for these qualities - essential for any winning formula - illustrates that the others don't have them.

 

McInnes has failed to recruit a competent midfielder of requisite winner mentality.

 

Or he has failed to instil the right mentality - which includes attitude and work ethic - to any midfielder needing help and encouragement to develop one. Unsurprisingly as the manager doesn't have one himself as he admitted, him saying he would've taken a point before the game at Easter Road.

 

Whatever your argument is Rico, please don't ignore or mitigate the bigger issue.

 

The extent of the manager's fuck ups is now adversely affecting Shinnie. That's the crime.

 

My argument is very simple: Shinnie in midfield + Considine left back > Shinnie at left back + Gleeson/Ball in midfield. Specifically in games where we will be under more pressure and reduced possession.

 

I'm not mitigating anything, I'm making a point based on our existing squad. Anything else is pointless (or at least will be in three days time when the window closes). Very little point in discussing Shinnie's left back abilities without discussing it in context of our squad and the pros/cons within that as opposed to how great we could be if we'd signed a better player.

 

I've been very clear that are inability to procure a better central midfielder (and striker) is a massive failing. I think it's ridiculous that we've signed 3 and only one appears up to the job but still with a good bit to learn. That is the issue in its entirety for me. I don't think instilling a winning mentality in Ball will make him a more competent passer or quicker. Nor Gleeson (caveat: I know it's early). I just don't think they're good enough. None of that impacts the central question though which is why does anyone think that our midfield without Shinnie is good enough to match the Tims, Huns, Hibs or Hertz?

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Shinnie in midfield is the best deployment of current personnel so it's not the "central question" at all. The key point is that he shouldn't be in there. That he is is because of terrible recruitment by the manager who has been unable to get good midfield players.

 

The biggest problem with the balance of squad is an inept attacking threat. Rooney's departure has highlighted this further but with McGinn going backwards and Hayes gone, there's nothing to provide service and nothing to receive it. Not only are the holes now gaping, it's really getting to Shinnie. I know you didn't see the game at Easter Road but he had a shocker and it was mainly down to frustration. His temperament has always been to try his hardest but his performances are getting alarmingly worse and the last thing McInnes can afford is our only option in the middle of the park (for delivering consistently good performances) regressing like so many others have done under him.

[Ten Caat]

He also picks up countless absolutely pointless bookings whilst in midfield by flying into needless challenges, often quite early in games, in parts of the pitch where there was no immediate danger. This tally of bookings is usually enough to see him pick up 2 suspensions per season and the suspensions get longer every time.....pretty sure his next one will be a 4 matcher. Obviously the one following that will be a 5 matcher so if he continues at his usual rate he will be missing almost a quarter of the season in suspensions alone.

 

Now this point could become moot in the next couple of days if we get this loan left back on board but if we don't then Shinnie at left back I don't believe would get booked as often.....and when he does at least the booking would be "worth" the punishment as the foul would occur with the opposition threatening. There is also no question that we are a more potent attacking threat ourselves with Shinnie maurauding down the left wing in support of GMS/McGinn. As it stands he at present often finds himself in possession centrally near the oppo penalty box and has an absolute brain fart as he clearly has no idea when to shoot or pass.

 

There is also the question of the defensive midfield pairing. Its no secret that I really don't rate Gleeson at all for reasons I've mentioned elsewhere. Gleeson is totally immobile so with a Gleeson/Shinnie combination which has been the starting option so far due to Logan's suspension, it is generally left to Shinnie to support higher up the field when we are attacking.....cue said brain fart when he ends up in possession. Hopefully Ball will replace Gleeson as Shinnie's dm partner as although you could never describe him as quick, at least he does have a decent engine and can get up and down the park for a full 90 minutes and will allow Shinnie to play the more holding role that Gleeson occupies.

 

 

[A96red]

The key point is that he shouldn't be in there. That he is is because of terrible recruitment by the manager who has been unable to get good midfield players.

 

Nae sure if your comment relates only to the current transfer window , or the whole time McInnes has been our manager.

 

If it's just this window , then it's surely too early to say that none of the midfielders we've recently signed are any good ,although Ferguson has made a very promising start.

 

If it's over the last few seasons then Kenny McLean is the obvious example of a very good midfielder signed by McInnes. And before that Robson and Flood were exactly the type of players that were identified by McInnes as what we needed at that time.

 

 

 

 

[Slim]

Another thing to consider is that Shinnie prefers playing in midfield and mentioned around the time that he signed that McInnes assuring him that he sees him primarily as a midfielder as one of the reasons he signed for us.

 

Obviously we can’t have players dictating where they want to play but I don’t think we’ll ever see Shinnie playing for us regularly at left back.

[wee toon red]

Another thing to consider is that Shinnie prefers playing in midfield and mentioned around the time that he signed that McInnes assuring him that he sees him primarily as a midfielder as one of the reasons he signed for us.

 

Obviously we can’t have players dictating where they want to play but I don’t think we’ll ever see Shinnie playing for us regularly at left back.

 

Aye, but shite management, coward, lacking in ambition etc etc etc 

[RicoS321]

Another thing to consider is that Shinnie prefers playing in midfield and mentioned around the time that he signed that McInnes assuring him that he sees him primarily as a midfielder as one of the reasons he signed for us.

 

Obviously we can’t have players dictating where they want to play but I don’t think we’ll ever see Shinnie playing for us regularly at left back.

 

That has never actually been said by McInnes though. I remember I, and others, speculated at the time that we assumed it would have been the case that he came to agreement with McInnes but that was purely guess work based on his continued placement in midfield.

 

It's interesting though, and all of the chat stems from the fact that he's very good in both positions, which can only be a good thing for us. If the player really wanted to play in midfield then I don't think it's bad management to facilitate this despite the fact that he is a cracking left back too. I think we get to hung up on it to be honest. He's set a very high standard in both positions and will be difficult to replace in either which is why we're struggling to do so. He's more than matched McGinn (£2.75M) and McGeouch (massive wages) in numerous games in midfield and occasionally seen to Scott Brown too. He easily held is own against Cork for Burnley also. That's a very high standard for a dons player, and should show the difficulty we'd have in finding and affording a replacement. The fact that he's also a very good left back just makes it very difficult for us to get a left back in too! He's in the Scotland squad as a fullback despite playing the majority of games in midfield, which shows how good he is there too. He's set such a high bench mark for a left back that we will struggle to get one who's even close without spanking a wedge on him (Considine at least manages to avoid too much comparison by being a totally different style of player). Whoever we get in will always be classed as inferior to Shinnie unless we get lucky. Shinnie is a better fullback than Logan, who has been a fantastic signing for us, so that's the level we're talking. Shinnie's biggest problem, then, is that he's set an impossibly high (AFC) benchmark for two positions despite only ever being able to fill one of them. If we'd bought Shinnie as a midfielder originally then we'd be over the moon. If he'd never played a single game in midfield for us having signed as a left back we'd still be over the moon. I don't think we should understimate the standard he has set and the difficulty we have in meeting that standard. One disappointment is that we've not had a young fullback come in and make the role their own. I think that a certain level of leeway would have been afforded to a youngster that won't be to any new senior left back.

[A llad insane]

Lets see if i can get suspended before end of September

[KennyFuckinPowers]

Indeed A llad insane, another needless booking today, but I think it's only his 2nd this season so far?

 

Going back to McInnes and his RedTV interview yesterday, he has said himself he sees Shinnie as a CM & said that Graeme himself sees himself as a CM now. Think that pretty much nips any notion of him ever going into LB again, in the bud.

 

 

[A llad insane]

Thought that left back Lowe looked a class act today, pity he is only here for a few months.

 

[February1971]

Thought that left back Lowe looked a class act today, pity he is only here for a few months.

 

seems to me that the only reason Lowe was signed was so Considine could play CH with McKenna and Reynolds out.

Clear he sees Shinnie as CM and Considine as LB.

Otherwise there is no point signing a loan player for 4  months.

 

[manc_don]

Sounds like he's offski, knows that this one is a big contract. Can't say I blame him mind.

[scotfree]

Sounds like he's offski, knows that this one is a big contract. Can't say I blame him mind.

Where you getting that from, Manc? Hope it's wrong. 

[Ten Caat]

Where you getting that from, Manc? Hope it's wrong. 

 

His interview on bbc yesterday. Says he is going to take his time and speak to his wife before deciding on whether to sign or not......

 

General tone looks like he is going to see what offers he gets in January but I agree it does seem like he is for the off. His attitude will be missed but as a midfielder his skillset is fairly bog standard so he will go with my thanks and best wishes but utterly unconcerned that a replacement of similar standard at least can't be sourced

[BigAl]

Poor performance today, but would still be happy to see him sign on the dotted line.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Poor performance today

 

That's being kind, Al. He was woeful, first half in particular

[BigAl]

That's being kind, Al. He was woeful, first half in particular

 

Actually, you're right, I was being kind

At times today he was shite

[Ten Caat]

I said he was awful in the first half. Was much improved in the second half, maybe I was doing him a disservice as really the whole team were poor first half and all improved in the second. Guessing it was down to the conditions....wind was blowing mainly across the field but was slightly against first half and slightly helping in the second.

 

DM should be telling him that as he (Shinnie) is keeping his options open for we are now assuming he will not be resigning and as such we are now actively trying top source his replacement. Consequently if we find a suitable candidate and he agrees a pre-contract, Shinnie's offer is then off the table.

 

Also, the minute he confirms he is intending to  leave under freedom of contract, the captaincy should be handed to someone else (Devlin being the obvious candidate). He should continue to be selected though, as I do think he has enough respect for the club that he wouldn't let his performance level/effort drop

[Dons1Huns0]

He’s obviously not committed to being here long term.

If he gets offered more money from anyone then he’ll be off.

He’s a grafter and workhorse but if he wants to go then so be it.

Make Devlin Captain.

[Ten Caat]

Record saying this morning he is definitely not going to sevco....

 

But possibly off to Luton ( the Sun agree)...

[manc_don]

Record saying this morning he is definitely not going to sevco....

 

But possibly off to Luton ( the Sun agree)...

 

Having just had a look, I suppose I can see why (if it's true).  Top of League 1 and barring a major fuck up, should be promoted.

[rocket_scientist]

Looks like he'll be starting in his best position for Scotland the morn!

[Madbadteacher]

But, since Robertson and St. Tierney are missing and McKenna a doubt should be a decent shout for capt......

 

Oh, wait, forget that.

[RicoS321]

Maybe just a bit nervous playing out of position....

[rocket_scientist]

He was at fault for the both the goals but from the 11th minute onwards, he's not made any further fatal errors.