Gun control

[manc_don]

Given a week where there have been two equally horrific acts involving guns on US soil, the previous one drawing a staunch lambasting of gun control in the US by Obama:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvEGFjWfHAE

 

I genuinely wonder when the US as a whole will wake the fuck up and realise that the solution to gun crime is not as the NRA say "solution to a bad guy having a gun is ensuring that the good guy has one too".  I've had a few arguments with yanks before where they hide behind the statistic that other developed countries suffer a higher number of these per head of capita. Whilst it may be true, it's not the point.  My fear is that it's too late for the US.  Because of their idiotic right to bare arms (probably correct at the time), they continue to allow the big arms dealers rule the world.  I'm sure Rocket said something similar in another thread, it's thoroughly depressing.

 

To those who live in the US, is there a general change in mood?  I'm amazed that since the camera man and anchor woman weren't shot that the media hasn't gathered some pace behind it?

 

Unfortunately, I don't think Obama has the power to act, but you have to wonder how they can continue.  Something has to change.

[Tyrant]

[Madbadteacher]

Manc, there is a kind of a change in mood, but really mostly among sane normal people (a huge minority tbf) and, from my experience, a lot of people in S Chicago whose families have been victims.

 

I guess in WASP world no one cares, really

[scotfree]

I was talking to a friend on Facebook about this. They said that there was no way that they would get rid of their guns as they needed them for protection against bad guys with guns. There are so many guns in the US that there is no chance of them getting rid of them. The black market for guns now is huge, it would only be bigger if they try to get rid of them. They really are fucked.

 

[Tyrant]

I was talking to a friend on Facebook about this. They said that there was no way that they would get rid of their guns as they needed them for protection against bad guys with guns. There are so many guns in the US that there is no chance of them getting rid of them. The black market for guns now is huge, it would only be bigger if they try to get rid of them. They really are fucked.

 

 

 

 

I found myself thinking about this this morning randomly enough. I can understand the point of view of the folk that feel safer with them, ironically purely because of the sheer number of (bad guys with) guns out there. It's very difficult to remove rights. Public disarmament is unlikely I guess. But if they did go down that route then I don't agree that it's too late. They could offer an incentive to give up your guns. Money or something? Folk would do just about anything for a bit of money. Whilst the black market would increase the number of total guns would go down because many people would rather surrender them legally for an incentive rather than try and sell them on the black market. Whist it's highly unlikely that all guns would ever be surrendered it wouldn't be that hard to reduce their numbers and the less guns out there the better surely? 

 

It's up to the American people. Maybe they should hold a referendum. It's in the constitution so if officials want to change that the people would need to agree. Or 50% plus 1 would have to agree!

[scotfree]

Here in Oz we had the Port Arthur massacre. Straight after that the government banned assault weapons.

They did a buyback scheme which did bring in a lot of guns, but I know a lot of guys that have hidden weapons away. Some have even buried them. There are a lot of guns here, but we don't have the crime like they do in the US, and also not as many people. 

The PM here had to wear a bulletproof vest for a while after bring out about the ban.

If the US tried to do something like that the president would be dead in a week.

[tom_widdows]

 

 

 

I found myself thinking about this this morning randomly enough. I can understand the point of view of the folk that feel safer with them, ironically purely because of the sheer number of (bad guys with) guns out there. It's very difficult to remove rights. Public disarmament is unlikely I guess. But if they did go down that route then I don't agree that it's too late. They could offer an incentive to give up your guns. Money or something? Folk would do just about anything for a bit of money. Whilst the black market would increase the number of total guns would go down because many people would rather surrender them legally for an incentive rather than try and sell them on the black market. Whist it's highly unlikely that all guns would ever be surrendered it wouldn't be that hard to reduce their numbers and the less guns out there the better surely? 

 

 

or they could do what they did in the UK after Hungerford (Banned private ownership of semi-automatics and pump action shotguns) and then Dunblane (Banned private ownership of Handguns and restriction on 'casual' ownership of guns and rifles)

 

 

Dont hand the guns in you get arrested and charged with possession of a dangerous weapon.

With regards to casual ownership of guns they go through the gun registers, see who has what and then one night you get a tap on the door from local plod

'sorry to bother you sir but according to the records you own a <insert gun type here>. For what reason(s) do you own this gun?'

 

If at the end of the conversation there is no justifiable reason (IE you are not a farmer, game-keeper, member of certain sections of the military/ police) they take the gun and any ammunition you have away and destroy it. Doesnt matter if you had only just bought it, its gone and there is no compensation.

 

I'm still waiting for the UK government to get their act together and ban private ownership of airguns or at least require them to be licensed.

They also need to get their act together and sort out the sale of machetes and other ludicrous knives. There is at least one 'novelty' shop in Glasgow selling some horrific weapons with little or no security or apparent licensing.

 

 

 

[Dandy_Don]

Latest estimates have the amount of guns in the US at over 310 million. Yes you read that correctly, 310 MILLION.

 

And therein lies the problem, they will NEVER get rid of all guns and buy-back schemes etc are fine but the reality is the 'bad guys' are unlikely to willingly hand them in as well as a significant amount of the population that believe strongly in the 2nd amendment. Remember, this was written to provide security against government tyranny so any move by the government to remove that will be portrayed as the government trying to silence the masses (while clearly this application  has changed greatly in the past several hundred years).

 

As MBT mentioned, there are a LOT of people dying in places like Chicago - I think I read somewhere that the weekend before the Oregon shootings there were 49 shootings in Chicago with over 20+ deaths. And Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the US.

 

Really the short of it is that they need to start properly enforcing the gun laws that exist and then try to find a way to get as many guns off the street as possible.

 

Frankly, I'm quite amazed that there aren't MORE shootings given that there are almost as many guns as there are people in this country. And all the comparisons to the UK and AUS etc are fine but, using the worlds most trustworthy source Wikipedia, there are 6.6 guns per 100 persons in the UK, 15 per 100 persons in AUS and 112 per 100 persons in the US so to compare 'advanced countries' is a fairly simplistic view of it.

 

 

[Madbadteacher]

aye D_D.

 

Every Monday there's a depressing email from the Principal re a student/student family member involved in a shooting/shot

 

Crazy

[tlg1903]

I was reading up about port Arthur today actually SF, that guy was proper bonkers!

This has been doing the rounds on social media recently in case you missed it,JJ nails it IMO.

Thing is I remember Bill Hicks doing material on gun control over twenty years ago, that little has been done despite a multitude of massacres since defies logic.

 

310 million is a staggering figure, it's just mental. I don't accept that it's not possible to take them out of circulation, but it would take a few generations.

 

[Superstar Tradesman]

As depressing as it is, it'll never change.

 

If it's not some Emo kid rootin-tootin-shootin up his school then it's the cops mowing down the people they are employed to serve and 'protect'.

 

That's why I'll continue to buy a fuck-load of shares in American arms dealers and private sector jails.

 

There's no profit in peace.

 

America - fuck yeah!

 

$$$$$$$$$$

[tom_widdows]

Slightly related but given the events in Sweden today is it possible that the fear of guns is being over-emphasized yet the fear of knives, swords etc is being gradually 'removed' from society?

 

A masked stranger carrying a sword walks into your school and your first instinct is to assume its a joke and ask to have your photo taken with him. Something to post on facebook etc. Its only when he stabs your teacher do you get the message something is wrong.

 

The incident is horrific but the initial attitude and apparently ignorance of danger and their own mortality is seriously concerning.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Slightly related but given the events in Sweden today is it possible that the fear of guns is being over-emphasized yet the fear of knives, swords etc is being gradually 'removed' from society?

 

A masked stranger carrying a sword walks into your school and your first instinct is to assume its a joke and ask to have your photo taken with him. Something to post on facebook etc. Its only when he stabs your teacher do you get the message something is wrong.

 

The incident is horrific but the initial attitude and apparently ignorance of danger and their own mortality is seriously concerning.

 

In answer to your question, no.

 

Wise up, or areyewise, as we say in the North East.

 

A strategy to "remove fear" about knives? Where's the logic there?

 

People actively going about minimising the dangers?

 

Your thinking ain't right mate. You can learn from Steve Jobs in this regard.

 

The confusion in your head is utterly disgusting to witness.

 

 

[tom_widdows]

Where did I say 'strategy'?

 

My suggestion is the over reliance on the media to tell us what is popular, what is bad and even what to be scared off is perhaps hindering some people's natural instincts.

 

The media goes into a frenzy with high school shootings (understandable given a gun has a wider destruction range) but stories about incidents in western schools involving knives and even machetes are either not covered or  forgotten after a few days even though they happen everyday.

 

Would those same students have assumed it was a joke and asked for photos had the masked stranger been carrying a hand gun?

 

When did someone in your immediate vicinty who is carrying a large bladed weapon become something you find amusing?

 

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Your thinking is less than good, in my observation.

 

Maybe you're a highly functioning successful human being?

 

Perhaps you use the debate here benefactorially to give of yourself and to share your greater knowledge?

 

On the other hand, you might be like every single one of us, with an infinite capacity to learn.

 

It is sickening to hear someone as stupid as you post the shite that you do.

 

It's not what you say that is so sad. It's how you say it.

 

And typically, not even being aware of what I was alluding to, you never asked.

 

Steve Jobs done a job. He knew better than me and you.

 

Your curiosity levels being so defunct, you didn't even compute.

 

 

 

 

[tom_widdows]

[rocket_scientist]

 

That's not a very valuable contribution.

 

Don't you ever think about the consequences of your actions?

 

How fucking interesting was that?

 

Would you not even be interested in the Steve Jobs quote I'm referring to?

[tom_widdows]

[Superstar Tradesman]

That's not a very valuable contribution.

 

Pot, kettle.

 

To get back on track I think it's more to do with the environment you're in than what the media are telling you.  I live in a place where people open fruit on street corners with machettes and the cops carry machine guns.  At no point have I ever felt like I was going to be stabbed or shot.

 

A while back a guy got opened up with a machette spitting distance from where I live, I never saw the attack but the aftermath was like a scene from Dexter.  Claret everywhere.  I still feel the same about guns or machettes.  Complete indifference.

 

I've also stood next to a guy in a 7/11 in Sweden who had an 8" Rambo knife strapped to his leg and a rifle strapped over his shoulder.  Nobody batted an eyelid, because he was off hunting moose and hunting is a large part of their culture in Scandinavia.  Had he being wielding either then it might have been a different story as there's a big difference between wielding a knife or gun and holding a knife or gun.

 

If I was in Basra under the same pretences then I'm sure I'd feel differently about both those situation.  But not because what a newspaper had told me what to think, purely because of my inbuilt survival instincts.

 

I like to think as myself as streetwise, I've been in some hairy situations, but until bullets start flying or axes are being swung at my head then chances are I'd be up for a few selfies with some boys armed to the teeth, hanging off the back of a Hylux, just for shits 'n giggles.