Dhims - Dons - Sat - 12:30PM

[manc_don]

Ambrose on, we need to get 3 quick goals.

[Jute]

Normal service has been resumed. Taylor's challenge is beyond explanation. Hearts win today and we are down to third. I wonder if the clowns who were not concerned about going out the league cup still feel that way.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Well, Taylors suicidal tackle which he didn't need to make. Great. 3-0 now. Cunts.

 

He's a fucking moron. Not one thought went into what he was doing there.  Willie Miller made a great point at half time regarding the first goal - it was a great cross and header, but if the striker gets a head to it the next thing he should be doing is picking himself up off the ground. Quinn was in the right position but the ball is too good - the other centre half has to be coming across and he should be wiping out Griffiths and Quinn if that's what it takes. Instead, Taylor makes no move other than to throw his hands up in the air. 

 

Jack at the third was a disgrace - running alongside Bitton not even attempting to affect the situation. Weak. Him coming off the park when he was subbed was the most efficient thing he's done all day.

 

Rooney should have scored at 0-0 but even then I don't think we'd have been able to see it out. Great header from him right there though. 3-1

[Leftside]

Without Brown, van dyke and Denyer we really should be closer to them than that performance. Looks like we have decided to discard a fantastic opportunity to win the championship, for me really quire sad.

[tom_widdows]

I see a Hearts win will knock the dons down to third

 

County and Hamilton win and they are only 3 points behind with similar if not better Goal Differences

 

Could actually be 5th by 5:30pm next Sunday 

[tlg1903]

Losing Considine was a big blow, he was having a decent game and so was Reynolds in the centre.  With hindsight it was when he went off and Reynolds had to play on the left that the holes started to show in the defence.  It was a mistake to bring on Quinn to replace him, Robson or Flood would have been my choice with Shinnie going to left back. 

In spells Jack looked to actually playing quite well but completely agree about his disgraceful attitude for the 3rd.  DM clearly wasn't impressed either as you don't see your Captain getting subbed when he's not injured very often. 

Taylor for the pen was just ridiculous, fuck knows what he was thinking...... Maybe theres truth to the rumours and wants DM binned......

I jest of course. 

Disappointed but not surprised unfortunately, the game was a pretty accurate representation of where both teams are at the moment but you can't help wondering how things would have gone if Rooney had put that header in. 

[WeegieRed]

They say when someone is losing weight they should not look at the scales for a month. Instead they should stick to their fitness and healthy eating plan and don't let the scales dishearten them.

 

For Aberdeen, they should ignore the league table. Forget about the points gap with Celtic and even falling to third. They are battles for another day.

 

For now, the battle is within themselves to rediscover their form.

 

Aberdeen are still the same team that won 8 in a row. It's the same group of players and same manager.

 

However, have the team simply hit a bad run of form that will improve once they get a break or two? Perhaps, but the defeats have exposed Aberdeen in a way the wins did not, and showed that we've a long way to go before we can proclaim ourselves as the best in Scotland.

 

Defence - this is Aberdeen's main problem. We don't have one problem position, we have four.

 

Shay Logan's pace and ability in the opposing half masks his very obvious defensive flaws. He's a good player, but he's not a good defender. Celtic at times looked like they were targeting the left hand side. Their main outlet was an inexperienced 18 year old who looks good, but should not be giving Aberdeen's defence the runaround like that.

 

Quinn/Taylor - both can clearly handle the Premiership and will have their good days which can give others an inflated belief about them, but are they Aberdeen standard? They will perform against your Partick Thistles and Kilmarnocks. They even pop up with a goal now and again. But the Dons need better than them at the back if they want to put a gap between them and the rest and be seen as challengers. They need better than them if they want to mix it with Celtic and, from next season, Rangers.

 

You have to ask does our team have big game players. I don't think either of them, or Logan, can be classed as big game players.

 

Reynolds and Considine arguably are better than them, but they're not a defensive partnership. A right sided CB is a must, if not January then the summer.

 

Shinnie - where is he playing? He is either given the left back position or is allowed to form a partnership with Jack in midfield. The chopping and changing does not help.

 

Against Celtic it felt as if the two were strangers. Individually both are good players, but they need to develop a partnership.

 

Going forward I felt the Dons did okay. The passing at times was good, Hayes in particular but also McGinn in the first half put in good crosses, and Rooney on another day bags a hat-trick. He wasn't at his best at Parkhead but I couldn't fault him because he made all the right runs and met every ball. That's all you can ask your striker to do and his late goal showed that if he keeps doing the right things he'll eventually score.

 

Criticisms of McInnes? I think after one point in five you have to make changes. I'm not there in training and maybe the fringe players aren't doing enough, but Cammy Smith and Ryan McLaughlin are two who should maybe be given a chance, especially against a struggling Dundee United.

 

We're not a bad team. There's no need to be depressed. Hey, the title might allude us this year but who is to say we won't be stronger next season? We've still got plenty to play for this year - Hearts and St Johnstone look like they're up for a fight for second and winning the Scottish Cup is always a huge goal.

 

Celtic gave us a doing, but we've taken worse from them before and come back and beat them another day. We'll bounce back from this too.

[rocket_scientist]

Interesting post. Enjoyed reading it. Thank you. Couple of points...

 

Defence is our biggest problem, you say and Logan is not a big game player.

 

Defence was our biggest positive for the start of the season. Look how few goals we lost. It was an incredibly good record. Now look at the facts and plot the data. If the personnel deployed were mostly the same in the games that we were winning and were not losing goals, and the personnel since have been changed, would it not be wise to wonder why the manager changed a winning back four?

 

I've not done the exercise personally but this alone might be revealing. Irrespective of the personnel deployed in defence then and now, the Logan question is key.

 

He was the stand out MOTM in the final, a game of otherwise very shit quality. He was the only over-achiever that day, although Clangfool excelled himself by saving a penalty, shockingly, which almost made up for the schoolboy error of spilling a simple cross in the second half. Logan defended brilliantly that day and continuously made crucial tackles to prevent ICT getting in behind. His timing was consistently excellent all day. So I think he can very much be a big game player.

 

But something has gone wrong in the last couple of months and the full effects of the malaise can be seen in Logan. Ok we know about his baby and understandably he wants to be near him but in my experience, having kids has a positive effect on ones life, not a negative one and his form has dipped alarmingly, perhaps since he intervened in preventing Jack from assaulting McInnes.

 

Not only is not sticking with Shinnie at Left Back utterly stupid management, sticking with Reynolds is blind loyalty to a player who clearly isn't match fit yet and without a settled back five, it's never going to happen. The constant changes are counterproductive, the personnel decisions have been wrong and more worryingly, their motivation and performances have dropped alarmingly.

 

This is ALL down to management - isn't everything - and McInnes has fucked up big time.

 

 

 

 

[WeegieRed]

There's a danger of sounding disrespectful about the opposition, but you can look at Aberdeen's record against Partick Thistle, Kilmarnock, Dundee United and Hamilton and praise the defence, be happy at the goals scored, and be happy at the side.

 

If Aberdeen simply want to be better than the rest of the division, then there is no discussion to be had. This side has already comfortably finished above them all last season and let's be honest this poor form isn't going to last forever. Results will pick up and though Hearts and maybe St Johnstone will give us a good run, we'll be comfortably top 4 and very likely 2nd.

 

Generally, I'm quite happy with where we are. I'll take second, European football, and (generally) getting to the latter stages of the cups as a decent minimum achievement each season.

 

Yesterday was a strange one in many ways. On one hand I heard people suggesting we bottled it and asking what's happened to Aberdeen. I get on the defensive when I hear that. How come when Aberdeen lose to Celtic we've "bottled it", yet any other side in the country loses a game they have simply, you know, "lost". Did anyone accuse Celtic of bottling it when they chucked a one goal lead and a man advantage to lose at Pittodrie?

 

Really, Aberdeen lost at Celtic Park. It's something the vast majority of teams do. They haven't lost at home since March.

 

On the other hand, there's a frustration there because Celtic are not miles away from us. I looked at the two starting line-ups and didn't see a huge gap, so we shouldn't be outplayed like that. It would also hurt massively if Rangers were promoted and finished above us, reestablishing the Old Firm status quo when I think it's still within our grasp to get the better of both of them.

 

McInnes deserves huge praise for what he's done, but he has to accept the criticism at this stage and accept he can't get lazy and sit in his record or simply play the same team/tactics each week. Otherwise there's a danger of him being accused of taking us as far as he can. Do I believe he has - no, I don't, but we have to see McInnes doing something different now. This is his most difficult and testing period as manager.

 

Logan - I disagree about the cup final proving he's a big game player. Firstly, Russell Anderson was the MOTM that day by the length of Union Street. Secondly, I think Logan - and Quinn and Taylor for that matter too - have the mentality for the big game; I don't have that fear over anyone in the team really. However his frailties are exposed all too often, not just against Celtic. He's a stop gap defender - someone who has filled a bit of a problem position for us and given us some consistency in team selection there, but we need to find better and I'd be quite happy to accept a fee for him in January.

 

His replacement is key. We have to replace him with better. Likewise I don't think Anderson was replaced by better. Ward is only here in loan and although we'll struggle to sign better than him, we need better than Langfield and Brown.

 

Like I say we're not a million miles away from a team capable of mixing it with Celtic and what I presume will be a resurgent Rangers next year, but McInnes has a lot of work to do.

 

[rocket_scientist]

I'm not sure that we share the same observations, both about where we are right now and where we can go.

 

There's a danger of sounding disrespectful about the opposition, but you can look at Aberdeen's record against Partick Thistle, Kilmarnock, Dundee United and Hamilton and praise the defence, be happy at the goals scored, and be happy at the side.

 

But we beat Celtic too. When we were unbeaten and top of the league, we beat everyone. Easter Road started the rot. The period before and after was chalk and cheese.

 

 

If Aberdeen simply want to be better than the rest of the division, then there is no discussion to be had. This side has already comfortably finished above them all last season and let's be honest this poor form isn't going to last forever. Results will pick up and though Hearts and maybe St Johnstone will give us a good run, we'll be comfortably top 4 and very likely 2nd.

 

I don't understand the "no discussion to be had" line. If you agree with the FACT that pre and post Easter Road is significant then surely the ONLY discussion is why? Pretty sure none of us know for sure yet but that will come out in due course, whether or not McInnes survives it. I agree that poor form won't last for ever.

 

 

Generally, I'm quite happy with where we are. I'll take second, European football, and (generally) getting to the latter stages of the cups as a decent minimum achievement each season.

 

I'm not happy with where we are. I want to know, or more importantly, I want the manager to know what's gone wrong these last two months. Given these continuous results on the pitch, I'm not sure he knows, which would make him unfit for purpose if that was the case.

 

 

Yesterday was a strange one in many ways. On one hand I heard people suggesting we bottled it and asking what's happened to Aberdeen. I get on the defensive when I hear that. How come when Aberdeen lose to Celtic we've "bottled it", yet any other side in the country loses a game they have simply, you know, "lost". Did anyone accuse Celtic of bottling it when they chucked a one goal lead and a man advantage to lose at Pittodrie?

 

Really, Aberdeen lost at Celtic Park. It's something the vast majority of teams do. They haven't lost at home since March.

 

When others say we bottled it, they, like me, are wondering what the fuck happened for our results before and after Easter Road to have been so different. In fact, you can't get more polar opposite. Well, you could get 100% points before and 0% points after I suppose had Motherwell not taken a late draw.

 

There was nothing strange about losing at Parkhead. We're used to it, unfortunately.

 

 

On the other hand, there's a frustration there because Celtic are not miles away from us. I looked at the two starting line-ups and didn't see a huge gap, so we shouldn't be outplayed like that. It would also hurt massively if Rangers were promoted and finished above us, reestablishing the Old Firm status quo when I think it's still within our grasp to get the better of both of them.

 

Now I'm a little confused. I agree that it's within our grasp to get the better of Celtic. I think we proved early season that we can be well organised, disciplined, play with passion and enthusiasm and get results against, lets face it, teams in a weak league and I don't rate Celtic highly. I can't understand how you can possibly be happy with where we are and I think you're failing to recognise the turning point that was Easter Road, surprisingly as not just the results but the performances have so obviously been massively contrasting before and after.

 

 

McInnes deserves huge praise for what he's done, but he has to accept the criticism at this stage and accept he can't get lazy and sit in his record or simply play the same team/tactics each week. Otherwise there's a danger of him being accused of taking us as far as he can. Do I believe he has - no, I don't, but we have to see McInnes doing something different now. This is his most difficult and testing period as manager.

 

I don't agree that he deserves "huge praise". Good managers adapt and are consistent in getting performances, if not results. Something BIG has gone wrong for too long now and he's looking lost in being able to turn it around. It can't possibly continue to be this bad obviously but it will without direct interventions by him. This is a test of his management abilities and he is failing right now.

 

 

Logan - I disagree about the cup final proving he's a big game player. Firstly, Russell Anderson was the MOTM that day by the length of Union Street. Secondly, I think Logan - and Quinn and Taylor for that matter too - have the mentality for the big game; I don't have that fear over anyone in the team really. However his frailties are exposed all too often, not just against Celtic. He's a stop gap defender - someone who has filled a bit of a problem position for us and given us some consistency in team selection there, but we need to find better and I'd be quite happy to accept a fee for him in January.

 

His replacement is key. We have to replace him with better. Likewise I don't think Anderson was replaced by better. Ward is only here in loan and although we'll struggle to sign better than him, we need better than Langfield and Brown.

 

Like I say we're not a million miles away from a team capable of mixing it with Celtic and what I presume will be a resurgent Rangers next year, but McInnes has a lot of work to do.

 

We will agree to disagree re Logan in the final. I would be interested to hear others views but I thought Logan was clearly the MOTM in the final. I have always considered Logan as good enough for AFC quality and the fact he was so excellent in the final proves to me that he is a big game player. It's only been during this alarming slump that I've seen him lose the plot with his team-mates and display bad attitude but right up until now, bar the odd not-as-goos-as-usual performance which everybody has, I have loved watching his consistency.

[WeegieRed]

I don't understand the "no discussion to be had" line. If you agree with the FACT that pre and post Easter Road is significant then surely the ONLY discussion is why? Pretty sure none of us know for sure yet but that will come out in due course, whether or not McInnes survives it. I agree that poor form won't last for ever.

 

I'm saying if our ambitions are to be better than everyone else in the division bar Celtic, then that's where we are.

 

Yes, the league table currently says we're third, but I don't believe Hearts are better than us, just like I didn't believe we were better than Celtic when we were five points clear of them.

 

 

I'm not happy with where we are. I want to know, or more importantly, I want the manager to know what's gone wrong these last two months. Given these continuous results on the pitch, I'm not sure he knows, which would make him unfit for purpose if that was the case.

 

McInnes was capable of turning us from a bottom six side into cup winners and title challengers. I'd say he's more than capable of turning the current form around.

 

 

Now I'm a little confused. I agree that it's within our grasp to get the better of Celtic. I think we proved early season that we can be well organised, disciplined, play with passion and enthusiasm and get results against, lets face it, teams in a weak league and I don't rate Celtic highly. I can't understand how you can possibly be happy with where we are and I think you're failing to recognise the turning point that was Easter Road, surprisingly as not just the results but the performances have so obviously been massively contrasting before and after.

 

We are essentially where we should be on paper. Close to the league leaders, and an decent gap between ourselves and the rest of the league bar Hearts.

 

If we win the league or even run Celtic right to the wire than we would, in truth, have overachieved.

 

I want Aberdeen to move up a level, but I'm not exactly distraught looking at the league table.

 

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

You either understand that 24/24 = 100% before Easter Road v. 1/15 = 6.7% since means something, or you don't.

 

SOMETHING HAS CHANGED.

 

Wakey fucking wakey. Not distraught? What planet do you inhabit?

 

The one that celebrates a top 6 trophy and the runner up gong?

 

What is the fucking point.

[rocket_scientist]

Everyone knows that small data samples can throw up certain blips and irrationalities where bigger data samples don't.

 

It's quite obvious that 24/24 was freaky good.

 

But even if for 10 games it was 66.7% v. 33.3% for the next 10 games, questions would be asked.

 

This is not just a mathematical, results crash. It's a performance crash that is totally unacceptable for its inexplicability. 

[manc_don]

Everyone knows that small data samples can throw up certain blips and irrationalities where bigger data samples don't.

 

It's quite obvious that 24/24 was freaky good.

 

But even if for 10 games it was 66.7% v. 33.3% for the next 10 games, questions would be asked.

 

This is not just a mathematical, results crash. It's a performance crash that is totally unacceptable for its inexplicability.

 

Completely agree. Absolutely devastated by the recent catastrophic slump. Our league position is slightly embarrassing given where we were. Hearts, a promoted team, who we have beaten are now above us despite being 9  points ahead of them. I do agree with weegie red that the team need to forget about others around them and focus on themselves. Theyre not performing to anywhere near they can, confidence is provably a big part of it but it is now down to the management to arrest this and pick the players up. We also need to start taking our chances. We could have easily taken something from that game, but our profligacy in front of goal and a moment of outstanding stupidity cost us dearly. That was a shit Celtic side and we made it so fucking easy for them.

[manc_don]

http://www.northsound1.com/localnews/listen-mcinnes-on-celtic-defeat/#.VjdpJPo6uBM.twitter

 

McInnes on the game

[rocket_scientist]

Rarely do we hear a good manager ever single out and criticise a player like McInnes did Taylor there. Think that's the end of Ash's 100% start record this season.

[ayrshire_don74]

Aye I got that also, doubt he will start next game

[Edinburghdon]

I find it hard to disagree with anything McInnes said there, I thought we were playing fairly well in the first half and had a bit of our early season swagger back, genuinely could have seen us getting something from the game. No doubt about it we should have done better for their first but a player on that sort of form will do that to you if you switch off even a little.

 

Different game after the penalty though, there was no coming back from that.

[rocket_scientist]

No doubt about it we should have done better for their first but a player on that sort of form will do that to you if you switch off even a little.

 

If there's "no doubt we should have done better for their first", what exactly could we have done?

 

It was a fantastic goal. A millimetre-perfect brilliant cross and a wonderful header.

 

No chance for Ward. No chance for our defence. It was one of those beautiful goals you just have to admire. Not every goal is somebody's fault. Sometimes it's unpreventably excellent attacking.

[WeegieRed]

If there's "no doubt we should have done better for their first", what exactly could we have done?

 

It was a fantastic goal. A millimetre-perfect brilliant cross and a wonderful header.

 

No chance for Ward. No chance for our defence. It was one of those beautiful goals you just have to admire. Not every goal is somebody's fault. Sometimes it's unpreventably excellent attacking.

 

There's quite a lot we could have done to prevent it.

 

First, Logan has space and time to take the ball down. He heads it aimlessly forward and concedes possession.

 

Then, McGinn slides in and gets no-where near ball or man. It was a challenge that didn't need to be made because it was near the halfway line. He therefore leaves Tierney wide and unmarked in space. He should be cleverer there and realise by sliding in he leaves the left hand side free.

 

There are two centre backs covering Griffiths, but neither of them take responsibility and go challenge him. As Willie Miller commented on the radio, Griffiths should be picking himself up off the ground because Taylor or Quinn should be challenging him for the ball. Instead he gets between the two of them and jumps unchallenged and wins a free header.

 

Three mistakes that led to the goal. So no, I don't agree it was not preventable.

[rocket_scientist]

I agree that there was a lot of shite leading to him being in position to deliver a free cross but it was an excellent delivery.

 

The back marker could have positioned himself better and been quicker to get in the air to challenge so I would concede to Willie Miller's comments, not that I heard them. He is uniquely qualified being the best AFC player I ever saw.

 

It was just a stunning goal and one that didn't hit me on first impression as being anything we could have done.

[BobbyBiscuit]

I agree that there was a lot of shite leading to him being in position to deliver a free cross but it was an excellent delivery.

 

The back marker could have positioned himself better and been quicker to get in the air to challenge so I would concede to Willie Miller's comments, not that I heard them. He is uniquely qualified being the best AFC player I ever saw.

 

It was just a stunning goal and one that didn't hit me on first impression as being anything we could have done.

 

It was a superb cross and an equally superb header but Miller's comments were that Quinn was well positioned, but Taylor should have been coming round to cover and if need be wipe Griffiths and Quinn out in a bid to get the ball. Taylor, for some reason, was running in a straight line, no attempt to put pressure on Griffiths at all.

[ayrshire_don74]

Taylor and Quinns defending for the third was disgraceful appeared to be out muscled by the dwarf boaby flasher

[Edinburghdon]

If there's "no doubt we should have done better for their first", what exactly could we have done?

 

It was a fantastic goal. A millimetre-perfect brilliant cross and a wonderful header.

 

No chance for Ward. No chance for our defence. It was one of those beautiful goals you just have to admire. Not every goal is somebody's fault. Sometimes it's unpreventably excellent attacking.

 

Apologies I've just seen this, I totally agree it was a fantastic delivery but like others have said Miller gave his opinion at the time and I totally agree with it, Taylor should have been attacking that ball.

 

Don't get me wrong it is a very good goal but I do think it was avoidable.

[manc_don]

Apologies I've just seen this, I totally agree it was a fantastic delivery but like others have said Miller gave his opinion at the time and I totally agree with it, Taylor should have been attacking that ball.

 

Don't get me wrong it is a very good goal but I do think it was avoidable.

 

Every one of those goals was unavoidable. The only person I dont blame is Ward as technically, all 3 goals were very, very good.