Perth Saints - Dons - Friday - 7:45

[tom_widdows]

Based on what I heard on open all mikes it appears hearts also decided not to turn up

 

2nd place could be sorted next week provided they get their fingers out

[RicoS321]

Aye, good news like. Hopefully give us a kick up the airse and at the same time relieve a bit of the pressure and we can win all 4 games and finish on a high with some youngsters getting a chance in the process.

[LA-Don]

I just think we're gassed, both physically and mentally. We have been playing and training since June and got off to a good league start since Europe was our preseason and we were fit and sharp at the start of the season. We had a small squad, weakened it in January, and we're crawling to the finish. We didn't rotate the squad, don't have the depth, didn't rest/sub to protect players, and we're running on empty.

 

Pawlett and smith have to be gone in the summer, clear mcinness doesn't rate them given how much they play. We really need close to 10 solid players to reload for and be competitive next year.

[Reidzer 1314]

That was easily one of the worst performances I have seen. We were appalling.

 

Scott Brown, words escape me, not all entirely his fault but that free kick was bread and butter for a keeper, from where he positioned his wall he they positioned himself all wrong. What he then did from the Saints corner was even worse, did trip over his own player, did he trip over himself or did he just fall over?!? We got lucky with a bad refereeing decision on that one.

 

Then again just simple defensive errors costing us big time. Especially the 3rd goal, Considine caught in no mans land, easy ball through, 3-0 and Considine blames everyone but himself.

 

Such a bad and disappointing performance, it was actually as though the players did not even want to be there.

 

McInnes using this back 3 again to try and protect the young lad Rose, as far as I can remember that back 3 hasn't really worked for use in the past so why try it again?? Especially with the players we had on the bench. The young lad McLennan, some people seem to be praising him, thought he did ok but nothing special.

 

It is very clear that a new spine is needed in this team, defence needs plugged, goalkeeper situation needs fixed and we need a dominant central midfield player or even two.

 

 

[manc_don]

That was easily one of the worst performances I have seen. We were appalling.

 

Scott Brown, words escape me, not all entirely his fault but that free kick was bread and butter for a keeper, from where he positioned his wall he they positioned himself all wrong. What he then did from the Saints corner was even worse, did trip over his own player, did he trip over himself or did he just fall over?!? We got lucky with a bad refereeing decision on that one.

 

Then again just simple defensive errors costing us big time. Especially the 3rd goal, Considine caught in no mans land, easy ball through, 3-0 and Considine blames everyone but himself.

 

Such a bad and disappointing performance, it was actually as though the players did not even want to be there.

 

McInnes using this back 3 again to try and protect the young lad Rose, as far as I can remember that back 3 hasn't really worked for use in the past so why try it again?? Especially with the players we had on the bench. The young lad McLennan, some people seem to be praising him, thought he did ok but nothing special.

 

It is very clear that a new spine is needed in this team, defence needs plugged, goalkeeper situation needs fixed and we need a dominant central midfield player or even two.

 

That is something we've been saying for years and I was amazed to read after the game that McInnes finally highlighted this fact. How he only now realises this is beyond me. It's been something the fans have been crying out for every single transfer window. I genuinely believe we need two new centre halves. What's apparent from that performance is that Reynolds can't bring someone through a game, although I would have to blame the tactics on that one too. The back 3 hasn't worked domestically, why bother persisting with it. Shinnie is a left back. Keep him there. 

 

The results elsewhere weekend just highlight what is wrong with the team, another opportunity missed

[RicoS321]

I'd say McInnes knew about it, and tried to address it, in January. I reckon we had a few central midfielders on our list before Tansey that we failed to get in hence the Tansey interest. That he's only mentioning it now was, I'm sure, because we still had a title to chase for. He obviously considered Friday as our very last chance of winning the title and so was quite happy to speak out to let both the players and the fans know he's aware of the issue.

 

The problem that we have is finding that player. As fans, we take the easy approach saying we need a player like Draper or Lasley. The problem is that most of those guys aren't good enough. They have the right physical attributes, but aren't good enough to improve our team; I remember folk on Dons mad a couple of years back saying that Goodwin was the answer to all our problems. It's easy to look at a physical player, see them putting a few solid challenges and completely ignoring all their other obvious failings. Arneson was a solid midfielder, but he held onto the ball for months, got caught out of position, didn't track back and was too slow (which made him the perfect choice for centre half). Many would see him holding players off and tackling and ignore these other obvious failings (and the fact he could f'n melt the ball). Murray Davidson I'd have had a couple of years back, but he doesn't seem to have progressed, is quite slow and still injury prone, but I'm struggling to think of another midfielder in that vein that'd be good enough to improve on what we've got. Our best signings have been known quantities from the SPL, with all others being risks (Taylor), loanees or failures (the rest). I think Vaulks from Falkirk would be good enough, but otherwise we've got to look further afield, which not only adds risk but also makes it harder to get them to come to Scotland.

 

The good thing is that we've had at least 6 months to identify a midfielder, a striker and a goalkeeper (I think the requirement for a defender is perhaps a more recent urgency) and our scouts would have had a very narrow criteria to play with, so we should have a pretty definitive list by now.

[rocket_scientist]

This assumes we have given the "football side of the business" a budget commensurate with our ambition.

 

This assumes the ambition of the fans, players, management and chairman is one and the same.

 

Which it isn't.

 

If it were, we wouldn't have so many non-productives on the payroll.

 

If it were, we wouldn't have racked up over EIGHT figures worth of debt.

 

If it were, we wouldn't have pissed good money down the drain.

 

If it were, we wouldn't have tolerated Calderwood and Langfield for so long.

 

If it were, we would've won the league this year, our only real chance, now gone.

 

It's been over 30 years since the last league win. Don't expect a sniff in the next few years.

 

Because that's not even in the plan.

[RicoS321]

This assumes we have given the "football side of the business" a budget commensurate with our ambition.

 

Not really. I was basing my post on the budget staying the same (including the 200K for Tansey). I think we can replace current squad players with better ones for the same wages. Anything else is a bonus.

 

My ambitions in/for Scottish football are probably different than yours, and significantly different to those in charge of our club.

[rocket_scientist]

Not really. I was basing my post on the budget staying the same (including the 200K for Tansey). I think we can replace current squad players with better ones for the same wages. Anything else is a bonus.

 

My ambitions in/for Scottish football are probably different than yours, and significantly different to those in charge of our club.

 

So you're saying that it's our football manager who's failing? I wouldn't disagree.

 

If we can't agree as an organisation on our ambitions, we're guaranteed not to get there.

 

For clarity, my ambition is to be the best we can be given the resources and potential resources available.

 

Not once in Milne's stewratship have we ever been close to fulfilling our potential. In my opinion.

[Reidzer 1314]

Back to January and I heard the we initially wanted to get Greg Stewart from Dundee but our valuation and Dundee's valuation were miles apart. We then tried to get Roystyn Griffiths from Roda but they were looking for a fee around the £400k mark and we wouldnt pay that as the player was out of contract in the summer. Then it was Tansey and we all know how that went.

 

I did also here that McInnes felt out with the board in December when they discussed his budget for January, he felt with a bit of backing we had a real chance of winning the league but they wouldn't agree to back him which led to a a bit of a fallout. May explain why the move for central midfield player was left to so late in the window when at that point it was a real necessity to try and sign someone with Jack injured. 

 

Of course it was all through the grapevine so it could all be hogwash.

[RicoS321]

So you're saying that it's our football manager who's failing? I wouldn't disagree.

 

If we can't agree as an organisation on our ambitions, we're guaranteed not to get there.

 

For clarity, my ambition is to be the best we can be given the resources and potential resources available.

 

Not once in Milne's stewratship have we ever been close to fulfilling our potential. In my opinion.

 

stewratship! Appropriate typo if ever there was.

 

My ambition is for us to play in the fairest, and most sporting, league in the world, where we are the best we can be given the resources available. I've no desire to see us spending shite loads more than everyone else in order to win all our games. I think the current gap between us and those below is currently too high to give them a sporting chance. I'd like to see us develop as a league or not at all, and I think that is the only way we'll combat the obvious return to a HunTim bore-fest. I think we'll realise this in 3-4 years time when crowds start to dwindle again as helicopter Sundays return for the weegia. I enjoy watching fitba, I enjoy watching the dons, but I'm under no illusion as to what I'm watching in Scotland every week and I'm happy not to take it too seriously (sort of!). I like the fact that we don't win every game and enjoy watching us get better and worse as seasons go by - it helps to make it a bit more real. The retention of the 11-1 vote by Milne showed that he has entirely different ambitions, for us and the SPL, to me. I don't have a problem with that, he's got himself into the position where he can make that - incorrect - call. 

[rocket_scientist]

I'm not really into seeing us lose for the sake of a competitive league. I also don't buy the line that money guarantees success. I think Leicester have proved this year that a well-motivated bunch of professionals doing the right things under the right management can compete and beat the big budget colossuses.

 

Of course money buys success in football but that doesn't mean we can't TRY to compete *, especially in Scotland where ra Sellic have been an obviously-shite football team. What fucks me off is that we didn't even try to show an ounce of ambition and with a massive debt written off and a very real opportunity this year, we didn't even speculate to accumulate by not doing the maths. We could have recouped even a 250k additional outlay with an extra 10,000 paying punters which spread over 20 home games is +500 per game. We have THOUSANDS who will return when the product is good enough and the opportunity to compete is there. They don't believe the board gives a fuck so why should they prop them up, maintaining the status quo which has been bollocks for over 20 years now.

 

Even in this season, the best we've had this century, we have had to endure an obviously talented footballer not give a fuck often enough, totally incompetent footballers also not being benched enough due to a manager who doesn't have the balls to kick cunt, a fucking hopeless goalkeeper since Ward got recalled who was always a liability waiting to happen, our best player being moved from his best position for reasons unclear and tactics, formations and a (lack of) substitutions that all made no sense to even a schoolboy. Not to mention an alarming slump of what was it - 1 point out of a possible 18 - again for reasons nae cunt knows about but which cost us in the end and proves that this squad of players under this manager just isn't very good.

 

We have only six decent footballers at the club. The fact that we are paying the wages of others, squad fillers at best - whether incompetent in ability or deficient in desire/application - is a total embarrassment to the club and should have been an anathema to our manager and his staff.

 

* Before the pedants get uppity and for clarification, obviously the big clubs with the big wages win MOST of the time but as we've seen before in Spain, in England this year, in Germany, in Holland and even ourselves in the 80's - which we are not allowed to mention because it's politically incorrect to do so and proves that we're all so thick we are stuck in the past - there are always going to be exceptions.

 

To break the mould however, you need to recruit the right manager who can recruit the right players. This cunt bought Calvin Zola for fuck sake and whilst he's done well getting Shinnie and MacLean etc., he continuously fails to get the most out of the majority for most of the time and this overall squad isn't near good enough.

 

AFC aren't even TRYING to win the league cos that's not their ambition. The last time I attended an AGM, finishing 7th was the financial target, around which the budgets were supposed to balance. It's a fucking joke, this board and they're slowly killing the club. 43,000 at the Red Parkhead proves that we have got the latent potential to average 15 to 16,000 if it was exciting. We're not even thinking like this.

[RicoS321]

Aye, I agree with pretty much all of that. I'm in no doubt that we could have sustained a challenge if we'd spent in January (although that has to be tempered with the fact that 200K was made available). I think we'd have needed a goalie, a strong midfielder and a striker better than Church. In January, to get that level of player whilst still in contract (players generally are in January) would have cost between £750K-1M.

 

That's where I begin to see the problem. I'm not denying that we couldn't afford it, or that it wouldn't have been a sounds investment - it would - I'm just saying that my ambition is to see Scottish football improve as a whole or not at all. We had twice the wage bill of anyone else last season and the Tims had 6-7 times as much as us. That makes it not a sport, and is significantly different to anything we experienced in the 80s or early 90s. At SPFL price-point it is as close to guaranteeing success as its likely to get. In England, it seems that they've reached that saturation point where adding an extra £100M to the budget doesn't buy the same advantage as it does at our level of expenditure (coupled with an excellent season for Leicester and Spurs). I don't think we should aim for that! To me, us spending upwards of £750K in one window puts us in the Hun/Tim level of expenditure, outwith the reaches of any other team in the league.

[rocket_scientist]

An additional 1,000 on the home gate for a season = half a million.

 

The latent support is there. There is a reason why the missing thousands don't come and after decades of not giving a fuck about "the football side of the business" - what other side is there Stewrat? - I'm not surprised.

 

The real tragedy is the relationship between the board and the fans. They alienated the missing thousands with so many contributory reasons for so many years that only a fucking idiot couldn't see what was going on.

[Madbadteacher]

Agree 100% with Rocket here, whenever a board starts talking about "the football side of the business" alarm bells ring for me. Surely the purpose of a football club is football? It's not an aside to anything else.