Squad

[ayrshire_don74]

So we start again while Mcinnes has no doubt strengthened our attacking options and GK position, we are still way short.

 

Ash Taylor will cost us 4,5 games this year I have no doubt about that, we need a CB

 

Shinnie in CM is not a long term option, he is , on his day the best LB in the league and Considine is not a good enough LB .

 

Finally and probably most importantly CM, Mclean continues to puzzle me in terms of what he really brings to the team we need a dynamic midfield to support Jack..

 

Part of me fears we have signed all we will sign , if so I think we may struggle

 

[LA-Don]

Pretty much agree with what you say, although last year we started well in center of defense and rarely conceded in the first x games. Dare I say Reynolds is finding form? Taylor is still somewhat solid but, yes, will cost us a goal here and there. I guess DM is relying on us finding form again, but with an improved attack we go with the Newcastle approach of outscoring opponents?? Will OConnor get a chance in there?

 

The GK position really affects the defense and I think Lewis will help us. I totally agree we lack a forceful center mid, which again will affect the CD position. Stick a Roy Keane type in there and the CD does a lot less. This is the key position we have not filled.......yet. While I'd prefer Shinnie at left back he's a solid center mid. But if we commit to him there we need to sign a left back, I agree regarding Considine.

 

I see McLean as a confidence player. He lacked it when we first signed him, but picked up last season when playing just behind Rooney and grabbing goals. He won't get that position too often as I do see us regularly with Stockley and Rooney up top. I don't see him as a holding mid, like a Barry Robson replacement, I think that was the hope. Also don't think McLean and Jack are a good combo if we have 2 up top. I'd even go with Jack and Storie in there. Don't know if OConnor is an option with Jack but it's going to be a tough season for McLean if Stockley plays with Rooney.

 

Sign a dominant center mid and I'm happy. Preseason has been shit since most games have meant something in the Europa League. We haven't had the chance to experiment with the first team too much as a result, hence the same 'old' faces.

[Reidzer 1314]

The main focus areas have to be CM and CB.

 

McLean is just not a CM player, Shinnie playing in there just proves how poor McLean is in that position. He really should be playing up behind the striker but with Stockley, Storey and Burns all fighting for that position I think McLean would even struggle to hold that spot down.

 

O'Connor was solid at CB yesterday in place of Taylor so it will be interesting if Taylor is back in the 1st team for the next match.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Excellent posts. Refreshing to see a "pure thread" where 100% of the comments are spot on, a thread yet to be contaminated.

 

The shortfalls going into this season have been so obvious that it was imperative to get off to a fast start. A couple of draws wouldn't normally be fatal but given the inadequacies within our squad, instant momentum and confidence was needed to have a run at it.

 

It was the performances themselves that tells me that there is nowhere left to go. We have neither the depth of squad nor any inspiration being injected into them.

 

Fans - of the majority of clubs - are notorious for their blind optimism. Indeed masochism is a major driver in the act of supporting football teams. Continuing attendance is an act of loyalty which feeds tribal belonging and the stoicism and endurance of continuous failure feeds a sense of discipline that may be lacking in their lives.

 

The wise appreciate a generalist view when they see it and don't need it spelled out that there are exceptions to most rules but where the specific motivations to support are shared by many, it's the deployment of optimism that's the more interesting aspect for me. I prefer the natural optimist who doesn't shout about it. The use of pessimistic sentiments to disguise hopes and dreams are a self defence mechanism to guard against more failure. When the ingredients scream guaranteed failure however, there is no value in espousing hope and optimism. The horse has bolted. The ship has gone. 3rd would be a great achievement with this manager and this squad and lucking into a cup win is beyond this lot in my opinion. Time will tell.

[RicoS321]

Excellent posts. Refreshing to see a "pure thread" where 100% of the comments are spot on, a thread yet to be contaminated.

 

The shortfalls going into this season have been so obvious that it was imperative to get off to a fast start. A couple of draws wouldn't normally be fatal but given the inadequacies within our squad, instant momentum and confidence was needed to have a run at it.

 

It was the performances themselves that tells me that there is nowhere left to go. We have neither the depth of squad nor any inspiration being injected into them.

 

Fans - of the majority of clubs - are notorious for their blind optimism. Indeed masochism is a major driver in the act of supporting football teams. Continuing attendance is an act of loyalty which feeds tribal belonging and the stoicism and endurance of continuous failure feeds a sense of discipline that may be lacking in their lives.

 

The wise appreciate a generalist view when they see it and don't need it spelled out that there are exceptions to most rules but where the specific motivations to support are shared by many, it's the deployment of optimism that's the more interesting aspect for me. I prefer the natural optimist who doesn't shout about it. The use of pessimistic sentiments to disguise hopes and dreams are a self defence mechanism to guard against more failure. When the ingredients scream guaranteed failure however, there is no value in espousing hope and optimism. The horse has bolted. The ship has gone. 3rd would be a great achievement with this manager and this squad and lucking into a cup win is beyond this lot in my opinion. Time will tell.

 

Aye, but, Johnny Hayes.

[ayrshire_don74]

Another couple of things bubbling away. Mcinnes now appears to be a tombola merchant with players being played out of position week in week out , some of the formations and line ups have been puzzling.

 

The bigger underlying concern is are we skint ? I thought we would have spent more/recruited more in the close season we had 250k for Tansey in January , where is it ?

[Reidzer 1314]

Yeah the money situation puzzles me, as you say, £250k was available for Tansey in January, where is it??

 

The bottom line for me though is Stuart Milne. It is not a view that a lot of Dons fans share with me but the way I see it is that Mr Milne is a Millionaire, probably a multi Millionaire, would it really hurt him to personally hand McInnes say around £500k to bring a couple of players?? Milne owns a debt free club, the club is paying for itself and we are making a profit, that we know of, surely Milne could get his cheque book out??

[ayrshire_don74]

I guess like alot of these guys Milne isnt a liquid millionaire, but if he sold off assets etc he no doubt would, I very much doubt he has cash like that available, or maybe he has

[LA-Don]

Milne fucked up the running of the club, gambled and lost, and was only bailed out by a couple of nice and friendly grand parents who gave AFC over $10 mill, correct?? We are now debt free but obviously are looking at the new stadium.

 

We are 2-3 players away from a good squad. I see no money spent this summer, all incoming numbers replaced those who left, but I think we're a smaller squad? I'd also argue Flood, Robson, and Goodwillie could well have been on more than any of the incoming players so have we even cut costs?

 

Shinnie was an inspirational signing and a signal of intent. I'd say Goodwillie was a 'big' signing. While I like the look of Lewis, Stockley, and O'Connor, and I think Burns and Storey will be solid, why can't Milne free up some pennies? If a couple of OAPs can throw money at us, surely he can help fix the obvious squad problem. The January and current window so far have been real disappointments and while I don't know how good Andrew Shinnie is, if he goes to Hibs that's a blow in my eyes/missed opportunity. The last guy who I think went from Caley to Birmingham, didn't do so well so came north was Rooney. I'm optimistic to think Shinnie could have a similar impact in an attacking creative central role, a position we MUST fill.

 

I don't grudge losing out on Jackson Irvine and Will Vaulk as a holding mid. While we'd probably be afford the fee it's the weekly wages we cannot match. But we MUST get a holding mid.

 

We have 2 weeks to fix this or for a second window running we haven't improved squad depth, the issue DM addressed at last seasons end. I don't see us being second with this lot. We've weakened centre mid by losing Robson, Flood, and Smith, the most important area of the field. SM needs to man up!!

 

[tom_widdows]

Its been a while since the whole 'Milne is a millionaire therefore he should spend his own cash rather than the company's (AFC) and sign someone'. Personally thought (or hoped) the whole Jack walker-esque sugar daddy days and demands were gone for good but 3 relatively good seasons followed by two 0-0 draws and they seem to be sticking their head above the parapets

 

Few years ago there were stories about an ageing Klinnsman, Ginola or dare I say it Batistuta. Now its Falkirk & Ross County players who eventually reject Scotland for the English 1st division.

 

Club is debt free yes but that doesnt suddenly mean spend spend spend and rack up the debt again. Someone writes off your debt are you the sort of person who immediately buys a new car, new wardrobe, expensive holidays etc etc and puts yourself right back in the red?

or are you the type who thinks 'thank fuck the millstone is gone, can buy a few things now but I'm doing my best to make sure that doesn't happen again.

 

£850k on Brian O'Neil 

£350k on Nigel Pepper 

£700k + (Billy Dodds) on Robbie Winters 

£1,000,000 on Paul Bernard 

£300k on Thomas Solberg 

 

As I see it any spare money the club has MUST go on getting proper training facilities and improving the youth academy so we dont have to rely on loan signings and waste time looking (or even signing) rejects from the continent with agents who bleed clubs dry. Whether those facilities come with a new stadium remains to be seen.

[LA-Don]

I'm all for us being and staying debt free and certainly the stadium and training facilities are a priority. But we're at a point where there's a good chance we drop back to 3rd best in Scotland at best. Last season we were a player or two from potentially winning the league and we weakened the squad in January. We're in the same situation again where we've lost players in key positions and haven't replaced them. I'm not asking for millions to be spent but pushing the boat out a little more. As my post mentioned, it looks like we may even have cut costs.

 

It's not panic with two 0-0 draws. We've weakened the middle of the park and haven't signed one central midfielder. Robson and Flood need replaced, Smith too. We cannot rely on McLean, Jack, Storie, and our left back carrying centre mid for an entire season. Even DM said Jack and Shinnie were gassed against Hearts, we have an issue we have to address.

 

I'm sure (or certainly hope) we're not done in the transfer market. You don't think it's fair to ask Milne to throw 500k to help the cause? It's not out of the question to ask an owner to do that. That's not breaking the bank, throwing us into debt again, but asking a him to back the manager and improve the squad a little more. I think there's a few players out there who went down south, haven't excelled, and bringing them back is affordable eg Shinnie, maybe John Fleck who just signed for Sheffield or the likes, that could really help us.

[RicoS321]

There's clearly money to spend, I reckon we'll add another one at least before the windae closes. We're shopping in a sparse market though.

 

Also, I don't want Milne's fucking money. He's got us over a barrel as it is. The huns can spunk their laundered cash on has been EPL fucks if they like. I hope we never even begin on that road again.

[Edinburghdon]

I think there is money to spend, I'm pleased McInnes isn't just spending it for the sake of it.

 

It's been a solid window so far, addressing most of the squad depth issues of last year... Improving the centre of midfield and it'll be a perfect window. 2 weeks to come up with something is plenty time as well.

 

I'm also sure McInnes said before the euro games that he was working in a deal that requires a bit of patience, here's hoping is a quality signing from down south.

 

O'Connor sounds like a real find too, if he becomes a Taylor replacement I'll be absolutely delighted.

[BigAl]

PlLaying devils advocate here and not wishing to come across of being a Wiggy lover BUT how do any of you know that the money that was apparently there for Tansey deal in January hasn't already been spent 

 

A playing budget covers not only transfer fees but the playing squad wages. Given we have recruited from down south this summer, what kind of wages have we had to offer ?

 

Just saying like

[ayrshire_don74]

club made $500k profit last time out since then a lot of players have left .... not seen next set of financials but maybe they wont be as good give we were shocking in cups, but attendances were up and getting second place may have helped, i agree its not all about milne putting hand in pocket, there are other areas to look at , 250k on a ceo, how many non football people are drawing wage , should he disband youth policy until such time we have adequate training facilties....... is the 1st team the priority...

[Reidzer 1314]

I am not saying go out and splash millions of pounds,far from it. I agree with what has been said already, we are 2, maybe 3 players away from having a cracking squad but those 2 or 3 players need to be ones who can make a real difference, especially in central midfield. But could we get that sort of player in loan deal of a free transfer, I am not so sure.

 

I dont think it is unfair to make the slightest suggestion that the clubs owner put a little but of cash into a transfer kitty, maybe he has, maybe McInnes is waiting for deadline day again to try and get the targets he wants on the best possible deal he can get.

 

 

 

[BobbyBiscuit]

I dont think it is unfair to make the slightest suggestion that the clubs owner put a little but of cash into a transfer kitty, maybe he has, maybe McInnes is waiting for deadline day again to try and get the targets he wants on the best possible deal he can get.

 

Milne does NOT own AFC.

[Reidzer 1314]

Milne does NOT own AFC.

 

Ok my mistake. But he is the man in charge of the financials, yeah??

[Edinburghdon]

PlLaying devils advocate here and not wishing to come across of being a Wiggy lover BUT how do any of you know that the money that was apparently there for Tansey deal in January hasn't already been spent 

 

A playing budget covers not only transfer fees but the playing squad wages. Given we have recruited from down south this summer, what kind of wages have we had to offer ?

 

Just saying like

 

Good point, the players we've brought in could have quite easily used up the majority of that cash... provided he's kept enough tucked away to sign a midfielder I've got no issue with not having a transfer fee to spend.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Ok my mistake. But he is the man in charge of the financials, yeah??

 

He's the chairman of the board. He may well be "in charge of the financials", I doubt he would be right enough, the day to day stuff would likely be Duncan Fraser or someone like that.  But you're suggesting he puts his own money in for squad investment. That's just slightly different to being "in charge of the financials".

 

Don't get me wrong, I have no time for Milne, his decisions led to us being on our knees for years, I'm just not sure what you suggest is practical or reasonable or realistic. 

[Reidzer 1314]

As I said, my view is not one commonly shared among fans, maybe I expect too much.

[RicoS321]

As I said, my view is not one commonly shared among fans, maybe I expect too much.

 

Actually, in this case, I think you misunderstand the process. Milne would need to either dilute shareholding (of all shareholders) or provide a loan in order to invest. As he doesn't own the club (don't even think he's the biggest shareholder?) then he can't make that decision on his own - thankfully. He'd have to go to the shareholders for a rights issue - which I definitely think he'll do for the new stadium funds - if he was thinking big investment, provide a loan from himself or SMG as per his current preference share holding (to be repaid on sale of Pittodrie perhaps?). Or provide guarantees on a bank loan or overdraft, which would be difficult to do given our recent debt clearance. There are plenty of other mechanisms of course, but these avenues would really only be explored in the event that they were looking at big investment as they will be for the stadium. The investment of £500K for players will come directly from the club if the club feels it can afford it, not Milne. Duncan Fraser will be in charge of that.

[rocket_scientist]

As I said, my view is not one commonly shared among fans, maybe I expect too much.

 

The injection of funds from our chairman, the man who owns less than 30% of the club is never going to happen but I doubt that you "expect too much". That needs definition of course but this opens up the question of what would be reasonable expectations to have?

 

We got told incessantly that we had unreasonable expectations. This was admitted by Willie Miller in the AGM. WHY were we being fed this line by Messrs Calderwood and Miller is the intelligent thing to consider. The man who orchestrated this strategy is still there.

 

For a club of our size and potential, whatever expectations could be agreed on as reasonable have failed to materialise. Again, the most powerful word in language, WHY?

 

Looking at effects is easy. Understanding causes requires deeper observational ability and robust critical thinking skills. The agenda of one man is not the same as the fans. Never has been for almost three decades since the day he got his foot in the door, invited to tender for the building of the RDS by a man who did have his heart in the right place, in the same place as each and every one of the fans.

[Reidzer 1314]

Cheers for the info chaps.

 

Perhaps my own ignorance and being ill informed on the situation of funding at the club has dampened my opinion on the matter.

 

I promise, I will try harder to quietly voice my unrest on it in the future 

[RicoS321]

Cheers for the info chaps.

 

Perhaps my own ignorance and being ill informed on the situation of funding at the club has dampened my opinion on the matter.

 

I promise, I will try harder to quietly voice my unrest on it in the future 

 

But ye were right, though. It's just the investment strategy that's the problem. We could be, and have been, so much better at it. We're raising upwards of £25M for a new stadium apparently. Questions have to be raised over the best way to spend those funds.

 

I disagree with Rocket's assessment that the agenda of one man is not the same as the fans though. Years of badgering, negativity and repeated lies mean that the agenda of one man is now firmly the same as the fans. I hear very few dissenting voices against the stadium within our support. The unchallenged "Pittodrie can't be re-developed" is now firmly a fact in the eyes of most dandies. I've still to see the plans for the 12,000 seat stadium that would only be possible in place of the existing stands to allow myself an objective position on the matter.