Dons v ICT

[LA-Don]

Taylor was definitely isolated and had to pass long/square/back as no central midfielder helped him to begin with. Jack does this and Maddison did it when he came on. You could see Taylor lacks in confidence and really didn't want to be put into the situation of trying to pick out a pass.

 

While I hate the long ball game I'm fine with it if we play Stockley and Rooney up top with McGinn and Hayes (or Burns and Storey) and an attacking mid supporting for the second ball. Don't see the point in long balls to Rooney at all.

[Reidzer 1314]

Poor result. Poor performance. Nothing else to say really. Same old stuff from McInnes. Squad and tactics need a little bit of a shake up.

[manc_don]

i cant see this team improving at all this season. Big test against the huns in 2 weeks. We lose THAT game he should resign.

 

I had a similar irrational thought whilst drunk on the weekend but dismissed it as that.  Regardless though, he seriously needs to buck up his ideas, we've stalled, no longer coasting and in serious danger of going backwards.  It's not like there are straws to clutch hold of at the moment.

[BobbyBiscuit]

One win in his last 10 league matches arching over last season and this is frankly unacceptable. Next week is a huge week - away to a team we should stroll past, cup quarter final and the huns at home - a game with a full house and an angry and passionate crowd, the type of game we have wilted more than not. Fails next week, what happens?

[Ramperbamper]

One win in his last 10 league matches arching over last season and this is frankly unacceptable. Next week is a huge week - away to a team we should stroll past, cup quarter final and the huns at home - a game with a full house and an angry and passionate crowd, the type of game we have wilted more than not. Fails next week, what happens?

 

Have the courage of your convictions - if he "failed" would you want him out?

 

 

[BobbyBiscuit]

Good first post...

 

Of course I would. But I put it like that in terms of the wider support, the media, McInnes himself and of course board of directors. How will they all react? This is a discussion forum and I think we maybe need to generate a bit more discussion on here, but you maybe wouldn't know that if you've not been round here a lot...

[Ramperbamper]

Good first post...

 

Of course I would. But I put it like that in terms of the wider support, the media, McInnes himself and of course board of directors. How will they all react? This is a discussion forum and I think we maybe need to generate a bit more discussion on here, but you maybe wouldn't know that if you've not been round here a lot...

 

I don't see the point in raising negative hypotheticals that may never happen.

 

In the real world, the sensible reaction would be to appreciate that this isn't the hysterical over reactive world of the EPL, over the last two seasons we've finished 2nd (where we should be budget wise) and the goodwill extended to McInnes would extend beyond a poor opening six weeks to the season.

 

As things stand though, it's a completely irrelevant point.

[tlg1903]

The board will stick by him even if we lose all 3 for the simple reason he's contracted till 2019.

To be honest I think we have regressed despite some good strengthening this summer which is concerning. We're too cautious, I really want to see us go for the jugular from the off. Given how top heavy we are it now makes sense to play 442 as standard imo.

[BobbyBiscuit]

I don't see the point in raising negative hypotheticals that may never happen.

 

In the real world, the sensible reaction would be to appreciate that this isn't the hysterical over reactive world of the EPL, over the last two seasons we've finished 2nd (where we should be budget wise) and the goodwill extended to McInnes would extend beyond a poor opening six weeks to the season.

 

As things stand though, it's a completely irrelevant point.

 

And a pretty wretched cup record, poor finishes to seasons, a patchy transfer record which includes glaring gaps in the midfield for the second window on the trot, an inability to possess never mind execute a plan B, poor use of his squad and substitutes, inexplicable loyalty to certain individuals who have more than used up their credit in the bank (some never had much in the first place)... these are all sticks to beat him with.

 

However, if he gets us playing to how we know we can under him, great. He has the players at his disposal, by and large, to get us to where we should be which is second.  I am concerned though at how we finished last season and the start to this. We are lethargic and devoid of ideas. The balance to the team doesn't seem right.

 

I hope he pulls us out of this.

[manc_don]

Good first post...

 

Of course I would. But I put it like that in terms of the wider support, the media, McInnes himself and of course board of directors. How will they all react? This is a discussion forum and I think we maybe need to generate a bit more discussion on here, but you maybe wouldn't know that if you've not been round here a lot...

 

Think the problem is, everyone has got complacent and comfortable at the club.  Players know they're going to be playing week in week out, regardless of form or mistakes.  Primarily because we still don't have a plan b.  I think you make a good point, if not then, when do we start this discussion?  Honeymoon period is well and truly over and what is frustrating is that he appears unable to learn from his mistakes.  The failings are there for all to see, why can't he?

 

Lose the huns game and I think there will be a noticeable change in the feeling towards him.  I really hope that it doesn't go down this route.

 

I don't see the point in raising negative hypotheticals that may never happen.

 

In the real world, the sensible reaction would be to appreciate that this isn't the hysterical over reactive world of the EPL, over the last two seasons we've finished 2nd (where we should be budget wise) and the goodwill extended to McInnes would extend beyond a poor opening six weeks to the season.

 

As things stand though, it's a completely irrelevant point.

 

Not sure I quite agree, our form has been horrific since about what, late March?  So I wouldnt say that it's hysterical at all.  A bit premature, yes, but as Bobby says, when do you start having that discussion?  Finishing second last season isn't really something to brag about, especially with that Celtic team and manager.  We even nearly tried to fuck that up.  We've started as we finished. Very poorly imo.

 

P.s. welcome aboard 

[RicoS321]

I think defeat to St Johnstone would be worse than any result against the huns. The huns game will take care of itself in terms of motivation, fans backing etc, and it needn't have any negative effect on our season even if we lose. However, losing the St Johnstone game would prevent us winning a very obtainable piece of silverware. It is the game we really need to be up for, and the one that is a test of McInnes' management skills.

 

We should just be beating Dundee, so there'd be no excuses for losing that.

 

Lose all 3 then questions need to be asked. I've made the point in the past that managers are pretty much accountable to no-one, which causes issues. It'd be nice to be able to hear about the in-depth decisions made by the manager with someone asking the questions that we all ask after watching the game, but our reporters are both sycophantic and unqualified. Is there anyone in the club that is asking the articulate football questions of McInnes, holding him to account on his decisions? Or do we just wait - like we always seem to - until his position becomes untenable and its sacking time again? Shouldn't that be Craig Brown's role (I am definitely not saying that Craig Brown should be the person, but the position should exist)?

[Jute]

In 2016 we have only won 13 out of 30 competitive games including Europe and the cups. Not a particularly good record and not one I would expect a squad like ours to produce. As Manc has said squad has looked complacent for a while now as certain players know they will be picked no matter their form if they are fit. Manager needs to shake things up and get them focused again or this could end up being a long season.

[tlg1903]

In 2016 we have only won 13 out of 30 competitive games including Europe and the cups. Not a particularly good record and not one I would expect a squad like ours to produce. As Manc has said squad has looked complacent for a while now as certain players know they will be picked no matter their form if they are fit. Manager needs to shake things up and get them focused again or this could end up being a long season.

 

I've said it before, DM is very cautious manager and it's really starting to get frustrating.  This is something that needs to change, the balance to the current squad clearly favours a far more attacking approach yet we  persevere with the 4231 despite not having enough midfielders.  To get the most out of current squad a cavalier 442 makes far more sense imo. 

 

I would go with.

Lewis

 

logan

O.Connor

Reynolds

Shinnie

 

Mcginn

Storie

Maclean (who is clearly having a bit of tough time of it but not playing as badly as has been made out)

Hayes

 

Rooney

Stockley

 

 

With Burns, Storey, Maddison and a possibly returning to form Pawlett there's a lot of attacking strength in depth as well and, if you ask me,  this lineup in this formation would hand out a fair few shoeings. We might concede a couple more but not that many, that back 5 has got real potential. 

[Ramperbamper]

Not sure I quite agree, our form has been horrific since about what, late March?  So I wouldnt say that it's hysterical at all.  A bit premature, yes, but as Bobby says, when do you start having that discussion?  Finishing second last season isn't really something to brag about, especially with that Celtic team and manager.  We even nearly tried to fuck that up.  We've started as we finished. Very poorly imo.

 

P.s. welcome aboard 

 

Regardless of how poor Celtic were, it'd have been an unbelievable achievement to have won the league last year. So I'm counting 2nd as a stable, if unspectacular season with both unfortunate draws and significant room for improvement in the cups.

 

I get what he's trying to do with us, Jack's injury came at a bad time when he was really finding form and the midfield had a balance to it, we probably signed one too many strikers and it's a shame we don't have two O'Connors, but there's certainly a lot to be happy with too - perhaps back to basics and what served us well over the last two years (4-2-3-1), make the most of our excellent wide players and with the added boost of a threat through the middle in Maddison.

 

He gets more than six weeks leeway/goodwill from me - if we're nowhere near Europe come May then see where we are, but he's shown he's good enough to get us on a run more than once, so I'm still hopeful of a good season.

 

 

 

[manc_don]

Regardless of how poor Celtic were, it'd have been an unbelievable achievement to have won the league last year. So I'm counting 2nd as a stable, if unspectacular season with both unfortunate draws and significant room for improvement in the cups.

 

I get what he's trying to do with us, Jack's injury came at a bad time when he was really finding form and the midfield had a balance to it, we probably signed one too many strikers and it's a shame we don't have two O'Connors, but there's certainly a lot to be happy with too - perhaps back to basics and what served us well over the last two years (4-2-3-1), make the most of our excellent wide players and with the added boost of a threat through the middle in Maddison.

 

He gets more than six weeks leeway/goodwill from me - if we're nowhere near Europe come May then see where we are, but he's shown he's good enough to get us on a run more than once, so I'm still hopeful of a good season.

 

Good post.

 

I guess a couple of others have touched upon it, it's not a case of if this form continues we give him the dunt, no one really wants that, it's more a question of accountability for what most people can see is wrong. We've failed to get the central midfielder we've required for the past 3 transfer windows which has finally caught up with us this season with flood leaving and  Robson retiring. The Jack injury has merely exacerbated the problem. Questions should be asked of someone if they are under performing and at the moment, that is both the team and the manager.

 

Getting back to basics and having faith in his team is what he has to do, but the question would be why hasn't he done that already since our form has been the same since March? We have the squad to play 4-4-2, we should use it imo. Probably the line up tlg suggests above.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Absolutely not convinced Stockley is the answer; really not been impressed by him and the little game time he gets may indicate DM has his concerns too.  But 2 up front would be good; 4-2-3-1 is just another fad, and whenever the coaching courses come up with something new to justify the ridiculous fees, all teams will fall into line with that. 

 

Playing 2 up should not cause us any issues against the majority of teams in our league, home or away.

[Ramperbamper]

Absolutely not convinced Stockley is the answer; really not been impressed by him and the little game time he gets may indicate DM has his concerns too.  But 2 up front would be good; 4-2-3-1 is just another fad, and whenever the coaching courses come up with something new to justify the ridiculous fees, all teams will fall into line with that. 

 

Playing 2 up should not cause us any issues against the majority of teams in our league, home or away.

 

4-2-3-1 has worked well for us regardless of whether it's a "fad" or not.

 

Our strengths are undoubtedly in the wide areas, it allows our wide players to play in advanced positons and two sitting midfielders gives further protection our defence (Taylor), and Maddison looks tailor made for the hole.

 

4-4-2 just means we have two strikers starved of service rather than one with the two wide men further back the pitch.

[BobbyBiscuit]

4-2-3-1 has worked well for us regardless of whether it's a "fad" or not.

 

 

 

Never suggested it didn't chief. But teams know how to play against us now - we must be able to mix it up.

[RicoS321]

4-2-3-1 has worked well for us regardless of whether it's a "fad" or not.

 

Our strengths are undoubtedly in the wide areas, it allows our wide players to play in advanced positons and two sitting midfielders gives further protection our defence (Taylor), and Maddison looks tailor made for the hole.

 

4-4-2 just means we have two strikers starved of service rather than one with the two wide men further back the pitch.

 

Maddison looks tailor made for the hole in a year's time!

 

The problem we have, is that we don't have two adequate holding midfielders with Jack out and McInnes unwilling to play Storie. I'd also argue that Stockley and Storey are both pointless in a 4-2-3-1.

 

I'd play 4-2-3-1 if we can have a midfield of Storie and Shinnie (with McLean, Pawlett or Maddison in front), but a 4-4-2 if we're not playing either Shinnie or Storie in midfield, as McLean (or Pawlett or Maddison) does not work in that holding role, it is detrimental to his game. I think that a 4-2-3-1 with McLean as one of the holding midfielders is worse than a 4-4-2 with Rooney and Stockley and Shinnie (deep) and McLean in a two man midfield and playing more directly.

[tlg1903]

Absolutely not convinced Stockley is the answer; really not been impressed by him and the little game time he gets may indicate DM has his concerns too.  But 2 up front would be good; 4-2-3-1 is just another fad, and whenever the coaching courses come up with something new to justify the ridiculous fees, all teams will fall into line with that. 

 

Playing 2 up should not cause us any issues against the majority of teams in our league, home or away.

 

Really? I thought he looked pretty handy when he first came in, good in the air, good first touch and good awareness of what was around him.  If Stockley and Rooney were given 3-4 games in a row to try and find an understanding they could be a cracking partnership! 

Lets face it, Ash Taylor is unlikely to be getting dropped and he does like that long diagonal ball up the park.  Stockley is the one player in the squad that is capable of doing something with such passes on a consistent basis.  Rooney is no target man, he's a poacher and whilst I would not describe us as a long ball team as such we do use it far more than we should without an actual target man to aim for. 

[tom_widdows]

I fear Stockley has been 'marked' by the Scottish Refs already so his strength will just lead to defenders getting free kicks.