Dons - Tims - sat 1200

[A llad insane]

Usual story , standing off tims too much,paying them far too much respect. Scott Brown really is a daft twat, gets off with murder.

If we had showed the same determination we did in last 10mns earlier , i'm sure we would have got something out that game. 

Great game by big Joe Lewis , what a find he's turned out to be, McGinn was totally anonymous again & Hayes was kicked from pillar to post.

Kenny McLean was quite simply shocking & Ryan Jack was obviously not ready, Reynolds wasnt great either.

  Rooney looks like he has to improve his fitness, slow, ponderous & his first touch poor.

  Maddison should have been on 20mns earler, the boy is a joy to watch.

    Schoolboy error for tims goal, ball knocked back across goal like that.

 

Main positive from today, we have a real class act in goals.

Poor atmosphere & a poor crowd, we really have a fickle support.

[Slim]

Burns as a lone striker is one of the most baffling things I have seen in a long time. Especially as no-one seemed to let Reynolds and O'Connor know, so they continued thumping high balls up the pitch.

 

I can't see any justification for dropping Maddison either. If we wanted to use our pace to get in behind their defence as McInnes said before the match, he's the only player in our squad capable of playing the sort of passes needed for that to become reality.

 

I just don't understand what we were hoping to get from the game. In my mind, if you pack the midfield, it's so you're able to press the opposition midfield without leaving you exposed elsewhere on the pitch. We didn't do that at all, we gave their midfield all the space in the world.

 

We're also continuously left exposed with Considine as an attacking outlet on the left wing, which isn't really fair on him either as he's a competent central defender and little more. It should be Shinnie overlapping with Hayes, and a big ugly brute of a player bashing heads in the centre of the pitch.

[BigAl]

Burns as a lone striker is one of the most baffling things I have seen in a long time. Especially as no-one seemed to let Reynolds and O'Connor know, so they continued thumping high balls up the pitch.

 

I can't see any justification for dropping Maddison either. If we wanted to use our pace to get in behind their defence as McInnes said before the match, he's the only player in our squad capable of playing the sort of passes needed for that to become reality.

 

I just don't understand what we were hoping to get from the game. In my mind, if you pack the midfield, it's so you're able to press the opposition midfield without leaving you exposed elsewhere on the pitch. We didn't do that at all, we gave their midfield all the space in the world.

 

We're also continuously left exposed with Considine as an attacking outlet on the left wing, which isn't really fair on him either as he's a competent central defender and little more. It should be Shinnie overlapping with Hayes, and a big ugly brute of a player bashing heads in the centre of the pitch.

 

Haven't had a chance to put my spin on the game yet and glad I read through the thread prior to doing so as only really need to quote Slim who has summed it up perfectly for me. Found the selection totally baffling, and it was evident long before we conceded that it patently wasn't working. In fairness to McInnes he at least made the first substitutions at least twenty minutes earlier than normal.

 

Can't let the performance of Joe Lewis pass without mentioning what I've been thinking for a number of weeks now, there isn't a keeper in the SPL I would swap him for, and the beauty this time is he is actually ours 

[LA-Don]

I didn't see the game so could be way off here but WTF with the tactics. DM drives me nuts sometimes - you're at home against a good team but play to your strengths. Play your top scorer and your most creative player and have a go - not asking for all out attack but do what has worked well in the past. Celtic are good but not that good and I feel yet again DM shows them way too much respect.  Why stick Burns up top when we've never done that before - sounds like we played better with Maddison and Rooney on, why not play the best opponent with your best team?? Poor tactics today IMHO.

[Ten Caat]

First 60 our passing was atrocious even simple 5 yard passes going astray. Shay guiltier than most, his miscontrol giving away the throw in which led to the cross coming in which he then proceeded to head straight to Rogic and bang! we are one down. McLean an absolute hindrance yet again, McGinn anonymous and Reynolds as is the norm these days getting bullied by the oppo striker.

Big improvement when Maddison and  Rooney came on but only really threatened them in last 10 minutes. I'm actually glad Maddison didn't start, if he played full 90 i have  absolutely no doubt lego muncher or Lustig would have attempted to crock him so he would miss the final.

One final thing, was kistening to Keevins and Hun Johnstone on Clyde phone in this evening, they both said

a) Shinnie should have went down but even so it was still a penalty

b) However Hayes should have been sent off for pushing Brown to the floor off the ball. And in the same incident Rooney possibly gives Brown a sly kick while he's down.

I never saw the incident, dont know how I missed it but plenty callers ( all dhims) backed Keevins up

 

[PompeyDon]

"There are acceptable ways of losing and I think today was one of them," he told BBC Scotland.

 

Any manager that thinks a defeat is acceptable is in the wrong job.

[rocket_scientist]

"There are acceptable ways of losing and I think today was one of them," he told BBC Scotland.

 

Any manager that thinks a defeat is acceptable is in the wrong job.

 

Correct. Incredible example of non-winner mentality.

[LA-Don]

DM treats some of our games, like today, as if we're playing Barcelona. We try to hold on to 1-0 leads when we should be looking to win by 3 or 4, and today at home we should be playing to attack and win, not to avoid to lose or lose narrowly. No loss in the SPL is an acceptable loss, it's not like we're in the EPL playing Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal etc. most weeks, we should be aggressively trying to win every game.

[Nips_and_Tatties]

First 60 our passing was atrocious even simple 5 yard passes going astray. Shay guiltier than most, his miscontrol giving away the throw in which led to the cross coming in which he then proceeded to head straight to Rogic and bang! we are one down. McLean an absolute hindrance yet again, McGinn anonymous and Reynolds as is the norm these days getting bullied by the oppo striker.

Big improvement when Maddison and  Rooney came on but only really threatened them in last 10 minutes. I'm actually glad Maddison didn't start, if he played full 90 i have  absolutely no doubt lego muncher or Lustig would have attempted to crock him so he would miss the final.

One final thing, was kistening to Keevins and Hun Johnstone on Clyde phone in this evening, they both said

a) Shinnie should have went down but even so it was still a penalty

b) However Hayes should have been sent off for pushing Brown to the floor off the ball. And in the same incident Rooney possibly gives Brown a sly kick while he's down.

I never saw the incident, dont know how I missed it but plenty callers ( all dhims) backed Keevins up

 

 

Our passing was terrible. Short and long balls.

Needed Maddison on to feed from the middle as we were always going down the wing and passing balls into the middle which Celtic lapped up.

 

I think Hayes should've been sent off for that push on Brown.unneccessary.

 

Brown should've been sent off to for blatantly kicking the ball whilst our player was down.

 

Btw, I'm sure I saw a Celtic player in that little fracas begin to throw a sligh punch at someone's stomach.

 

Can anyone watch it again and let me know their opinion?

 

 

Lewis was brilliant.

McLean tries to mask his incompetence with just holding his hands up a lot looking for the foul whilst losing the ball.

Not one of Shays best games.

I think OConnor is class.wish he had a Scottish granny.

Maddison made Celtic look like chumps the way he kept dribbling past them with ease (Pele)

I think Burns is a good player but needed support.

Stockley and Rooney up front together is what I would try every game.Stockle is a great lay off player too.

Shinnie should've had a penalty whether he went down or not and it wasn't a foul when Burns tried that high scissors kick.

I hope DM learns a bit more from this for the final because we can beat them.

 

 

 

[cupidstunt]

"There are acceptable ways of losing and I think today was one of them," he told BBC Scotland.

 

Any manager that thinks a defeat is acceptable is in the wrong job.

 

Correct. Incredible example of non-winner mentality.

 

Just listened to him and I think (hope) he's just playing the media game for the final. Give the team a bit of belief that they can win.

 

We were pretty poor for large parts of yesterday, completely dominated for most of the second half.

[TheDeeDon]

Just listened to him and I think (hope) he's just playing the media game for the final. Give the team a bit of belief that they can win.

 

We were pretty poor for large parts of yesterday, completely dominated for most of the second half.

 

A cup final will take care of itself, but if Deek decides to go down the route we did yesterday we are fucked. Play to our strengths and to fuck with Celtic, who are really capable of losing goals if you go at them, aye they created a few yesterday, but the result shows they didn't score them as our keeper was more than up to the task.

 

What worries me is McGinn starting against them. I like him as a player, but he goes AWOL most games against his manky heroes. I would say McLean also, but nae chance of him getting dropped.

 

Although Hayes didn't have a great game yesterday, he was subjected to some brutal tackles in my opinion, he was hobbling about a bit after one in the first half.

[Stupie82]

"There are acceptable ways of losing and I think today was one of them," he told BBC Scotland.

 

Any manager that thinks a defeat is acceptable is in the wrong job.

 

Surely it's just another way of saying we didnt win, but that the mentality and effort shown by the players was acceptable. No one wants to hear a manager say that losing its acceptable, but i dont think he meant it the way folk are interpreting it. Yes, losing is losing, but i think what he was saying was we didnt just roll over and let them thump us, but rather we had a go, they showed effort, but we still lost.

 

I heard him say on the radio that the difference between our players and St Johnstones is around £500 a week, but with Celtic its more 500-600k a year. That is fact and reiterates the gap and quality we are trying to deal with. If he had gone out yesterday with 2 up front and really had a go, but we shipped 6 goals in the process, folk would still say he got it wrong. In other words, he isnt getting it right unless he wins, but beating Celtic is getting less likely. They have far superior quality and they really could go this whole season unbeaten... that is the level they are at.

 

I am also seeing a lot of people saying Lewis kept it from being a humping... well thats what he is paid to do is it not? and he does it very well i hasten to add.

 

For me, the greatest disappointment yesterday was watching how poor McGinn and Mclean were. Truly awful and its not the first time this season. I sometimes think that McGinn gets unfair criticism at times and contributes more to games than he gets credit for, but yesterday he was very poor. Mclean... well he just isnt good enough in my opinion and needs a long spell on the sidelines.

 

I could see what DM was trying to do yesterday and it didnt work, but he tried something different at least. It was perhaps the wrong game to do it, but after Hamilton he probably felt a risk was worth taking.

[February1971]

Surely it's just another way of saying we didnt win, but that the mentality and effort shown by the players was acceptable. No one wants to hear a manager say that losing its acceptable, but i dont think he meant it the way folk are interpreting it. Yes, losing is losing, but i think what he was saying was we didnt just roll over and let them thump us, but rather we had a go, they showed effort, but we still lost.

 

I heard him say on the radio that the difference between our players and St Johnstones is around £500 a week, but with Celtic its more 500-600k a year. That is fact and reiterates the gap and quality we are trying to deal with. If he had gone out yesterday with 2 up front and really had a go, but we shipped 6 goals in the process, folk would still say he got it wrong. In other words, he isnt getting it right unless he wins, but beating Celtic is getting less likely. They have far superior quality and they really could go this whole season unbeaten... that is the level they are at.

 

I am also seeing a lot of people saying Lewis kept it from being a humping... well thats what he is paid to do is it not? and he does it very well i hasten to add.

 

For me, the greatest disappointment yesterday was watching how poor McGinn and Mclean were. Truly awful and its not the first time this season. I sometimes think that McGinn gets unfair criticism at times and contributes more to games than he gets credit for, but yesterday he was very poor. Mclean... well he just isnt good enough in my opinion and needs a long spell on the sidelines.

 

I could see what DM was trying to do yesterday and it didnt work, but he tried something different at least. It was perhaps the wrong game to do it, but after Hamilton he probably felt a risk was worth taking.

my thoughts exactly.

Over reaction as usual, I suggest we wait until we are in the bottom half of the league like we used to be before slagging the Manager.

He is not perfect but he has done a bloody good job since he has been here.

[Stupie82]

my thoughts exactly.

Over reaction as usual, I suggest we wait until we are in the bottom half of the league like we used to be before slagging the Manager.

He is not perfect but he has done a bloody good job since he has been here.

 

He is not devoid of criticism and he has got plenty wrong, but yesterday I could see what he tried to do. With Celtic, its not case of just going out all guns blazing and pinning them back. Celtic dont get pinned back, they dont allow teams masses of possession and they dont ship many goals. Are they beatable, yes, but not as much as last season. Celtic this season are FAR superior to every other team in the league.

 

If i had to take a positive from yesterday, it was Dembele was kept quiet and Sinclair didnt get too much chances either. Lets not forget, these guys are on a reported 40K a week each... Our whole first 11, wont even amount to 1 of their wages. 

[rocket_scientist]

I don't think there has been an overreaction. I think you guys are being hard on your fellow supporters.

 

By all means, pick out specific posts and highlight where this board has been overreacting?

 

Don't misinterpret the comments on here as being of the same inane shit we read on other AFC webchatspeaksites.

 

We're all gutted that we came up short. Nobody's overreacting that I can see.

 

Totally agree with the comments re McGinn. I can't trust a player who doesn't give full commitment all of the time.

 

Talented for sure. But a fucking cheat. We pay his wages. He rarely earns them.

[LA-Don]

I don't think we are overreacting. We consider ourselves the 2nd best team in the league and we beat them twice last year. Why not have a go? While they are better than last year, with Maddison, OConnor and Lewis I'd say we're better too. We were defensive minded at parkhead and lost 4-1, I don't give a shit if we get beat 4-1 again As long as we tried to be attack minded and win he game. The second best team in the league should not have 31% possession at home and not play without a recognized out and out striker. I think most would prefer we took it to them. I think in all games against bothnold form DM has got his tactics wrong, and I certain hope this is not the cup final tactics. Just my Humble opinion.

 

As I said yesterday, DM is way overthinking things and overestimating Celtic, giving them way to much credit and respect. He's applying modern defensive tactics when they're totally unnecessary. Celtic are not Barcelona, they're very beatable if we play our best team and go at them. Didn't see these tactics against Bayern Munich or Real Madrid in 83 and we were meant to be minnows against them!

[Reidzer 1314]

The starting line up and tactics were terrible from McInnes. No way should we ever set up like that against any team in Scottish Football at Pittodrie, ever. Dont think I have seen a manager pull that out of the bag since Craig Levein did it with Scotland away to the Czech Republic I think it was.

 

It was only when Maddison came on that we then actually looked like we were causing Celtic any problems, that is how we should have set up from the start.

 

 

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

The starting line up and tactics were terrible from McInnes. No way should we ever set up like that against any team in Scottish Football at Pittodrie, ever. Dont think I have seen a manager pull that out of the bag since Craig Levein did it with Scotland away to the Czech Republic I think it was.

 

It was only when Maddison came on that we then actually looked like we were causing Celtic any problems, that is how we should have set up from the start.

 

It was obvious that McInnes was hoping for lightning to strike twice re Maddison. But whereas he came on at HT v. the Huns, 52 minutes was a weird time to make a double sub. Especially that nothing significant happened in the first 7 minutes of the second half. He's not a very good manager. I've never rated him higher than adequate and sometimes good. The damage was done in the first half. We weren't good enough to equalise despite some good effort.

[Stupie82]

It was obvious that McInnes was hoping for lightning to strike twice re Maddison. But whereas he came on at HT v. the Huns, 52 minutes was a weird time to make a double sub. Especially that nothing significant happened in the first 7 minutes of the second half. He's not a very good manager. I've never rated him higher than adequate and sometimes good. The damage was done in the first half. We weren't good enough to equalise despite some good effort.

 

Clearly what you class as a good manager and one who is adequate, are not the same to other people. I would say finishing 3rd, 2nd and 2nd again, with one cup win and another final coming up isnt exactly adequate, I would say that’s good and I would also say it’s the best in over 20 years. I would say that has only met some fans expectations, while I feel Aberdeen fans expectations have outweighed reality since the early 90’s and despite the fact we are a big club in Scotland, with a good budget, we are not guaranteed to win everything and we have proved that. Runners up places and the odd cup are about what I would expect and he has achieved that. Anything more would mean defeating Celtic regularly and for other teams to achieve that too, which is getting more unrealistic every year.

 

Look, im not saying McInnes is perfect, he isn’t and I agree Saturdays tactics were poor and he got it wrong. However, he has done enough to deserve a slip up every so often and while its costly as far as the league goes, we are never going to win it. If he wins another cup this coming month, then to me he deserves to be held in higer regard and deserves more respect.

 

[Reidzer 1314]

I am not saying McInnes is a bad manager, I am not saying he should get the bullet but like all managers in football he makes mistakes and I think our set up on Saturday was one of them.

 

What frustrates me most about the game on Saturday is that I honestly believe that had we had a more positive approach and actually asked questions of Celtic from kick off, we could have got something out of that game even if it was only a point.

[rocket_scientist]

I think there is a difference between not bad - the right side of average, good, very good, excellent and outstanding/world class.

 

Just like there is a difference between the various categories below the line; not bad but the wrong side of average, not good, poor, very poor and critical.

 

Of course we all have our separate opinions, about managers and players and within that context, different individuals will have different expectations.

 

But to compare him to the total dross that has managed AFC for the last 20 years is not a productive nor an intelligent yardstick. And to say that Aberdeen fans have unrealistic expectations is to fall into the trap set by Messrs Miller and Calderwood, one that our then Director of Football acknowledged and as good as apologised for.

 

After two games this season, I said we could forget about the league. The fact it lasted until late October before the coffin lid went on (at Hamilton) and the nails started getting hammered in this weekend wasn't a bad effort. But whatever your expectations, losing and accepting defeat shouldn't be part of the plan.

[Nips_and_Tatties]

I watched the game and the highlights.

 

 

I counted 9 decent efforts on the Celtic goal.

 

I don't know why a few posters on abmad and perhaps here are saying Celtic were so much better than us and the score should've been 4-0 or 4-1 to them.

 

I think I counted 8 chances on our goal for them.

 

Fairly even game if u ask me.

 

 

Hmmm...

[cupidstunt]

Clearly what you class as a good manager and one who is adequate, are not the same to other people. I would say finishing 3rd, 2nd and 2nd again, with one cup win and another final coming up isnt exactly adequate, I would say that’s good and I would also say it’s the best in over 20 years. I would say that has only met some fans expectations, while I feel Aberdeen fans expectations have outweighed reality since the early 90’s and despite the fact we are a big club in Scotland, with a good budget, we are not guaranteed to win everything and we have proved that.

 

I'd say doing what expected with the budget you have compared to others is adequate.

Doing a bit better than you should on the budget you have is good.

 

We've met expectations in my opinion, no more.

 

We've had a right to expect better than what we've been served up for decades though. No team has a right to win things but with the budget we've always had in place (between 2nd best in league and 4th) we have a right to expect more than a couple of cup finals and a run of finishing top 6. I dont think thats unrealistic, I dont think expecting Calderwood to get us to a Hampden final a couple of times was unrealistic, I dont think expecting us to finish clear 2nd and last season pushing for 1st in a league with no rangers was unrealistic, I dont think expecting us to be constantly top 3 or 4 is unrealistic.

 

I'm tired of hearing from fans, both our own and other teams claims of us having high expectations, too high for a club like ours. Too high is expecting to win the league, qualify for the group stages of the CL and for us to be spending £500K 3 or 4 times each transfer window on players.

 

Last season was our best chance in 20+ years to win the title. Last season was our best chance in the next 20+ years to win the title. Unrealistic expectations would have had people shouting for Milne to spend a couple of million in January, realistically if we had spent £250 on 2 players in the right positions (keeper and creative central midfielder for the hole) we'd have been a lot closer and probably top by the end of the campaign. It would've been a gamble but its a £500k gamble worth taking in that situation.

 

McInnes has been a solid manager for us since being appointed however he's made plenty mistakes as well. He isnt taking the youth through, none of our U20 development league winning team has really touched the 1st team squad and without that they will stall. We were pish in the cups last year, we stuttered in the league partly because of his tactics and partly because Milne didnt invest when needed. 

 

For McInnes to go from being decent to being good he has to finish 2nd this season, attack and give us a fighting chance in the league cup and get to the semi of the SC minimum. Less than that is average in my opinion and also expected on our budget.

[February1971]

I am not saying McInnes is a bad manager, I am not saying he should get the bullet but like all managers in football he makes mistakes and I think our set up on Saturday was one of them.

 

What frustrates me most about the game on Saturday is that I honestly believe that had we had a more positive approach and actually asked questions of Celtic from kick off, we could have got something out of that game even if it was only a point.

 

we almost got a point as it happens. The thing I didn't get about team selection was not so much Burns but more McGinn. As I saw it McInnes wanted the front 3 to press the Celtic back line to disrupt their playing out from the back. Burns  was running all over the place trying to close them down and Hayes was blowing out his arse at the end with the amount of work he did.

McGinn on the other hand was way out of his comfort zone, its not his game at all.

McLean was totally inaffective when he was supposed to be supporting the front 3 and when he was the holding midfielder.

Personally I would like to see McLean on the bench for a while and would start Maddison every game.

He was a joy to watch even at the half time warm up, problem is McLean cost 300k and Maddison will only be here for a couple of months.

As for McInnes i prefer to look at the bigger picture, he has done a very good job on the whole.

The next couple of seasons will be the making or breaking of him as The Aberdeen manager i believe.

 

 

 

[Stupie82]

I'd say doing what expected with the budget you have compared to others is adequate.

Doing a bit better than you should on the budget you have is good.

 

We've met expectations in my opinion, no more.

 

We've had a right to expect better than what we've been served up for decades though. No team has a right to win things but with the budget we've always had in place (between 2nd best in league and 4th) we have a right to expect more than a couple of cup finals and a run of finishing top 6. I dont think thats unrealistic, I dont think expecting Calderwood to get us to a Hampden final a couple of times was unrealistic, I dont think expecting us to finish clear 2nd and last season pushing for 1st in a league with no rangers was unrealistic, I dont think expecting us to be constantly top 3 or 4 is unrealistic.

 

I'm tired of hearing from fans, both our own and other teams claims of us having high expectations, too high for a club like ours. Too high is expecting to win the league, qualify for the group stages of the CL and for us to be spending £500K 3 or 4 times each transfer window on players.

 

Last season was our best chance in 20+ years to win the title. Last season was our best chance in the next 20+ years to win the title. Unrealistic expectations would have had people shouting for Milne to spend a couple of million in January, realistically if we had spent £250 on 2 players in the right positions (keeper and creative central midfielder for the hole) we'd have been a lot closer and probably top by the end of the campaign. It would've been a gamble but its a £500k gamble worth taking in that situation.

 

McInnes has been a solid manager for us since being appointed however he's made plenty mistakes as well. He isnt taking the youth through, none of our U20 development league winning team has really touched the 1st team squad and without that they will stall. We were pish in the cups last year, we stuttered in the league partly because of his tactics and partly because Milne didnt invest when needed. 

 

For McInnes to go from being decent to being good he has to finish 2nd this season, attack and give us a fighting chance in the league cup and get to the semi of the SC minimum. Less than that is average in my opinion and also expected on our budget.

 

I agree with what you are saying about the league last year, it was our best chance and that was more a lack of ambition by the club rather than Derek. He clearly wasnt given the budget to go and win the league and Milne holds responsibility for that!His tactics can be bizarre, but it was a lack of ambition by the chairman that cost us it!

 

I always say, cups are a lottery and while the expectation is to do well on our budget, it isn't always as that easy. Using that analogy, Celtic should be winning trebles, which they dont and look at their budget ( Celtic and trebles dont go ). That said, getting papped out at the first hurdle is completely unacceptable and we do have a squad that should definitely be making semi's and finals, but as i have said, its not always as clear cut as that. In my opinion, If he wins the league cup and finishes 2nd, i think that is a very decent season.

 

I also agree on the point about the youth... that has been the most frustrating part about McInnes and it is clearly something he needs to improve on. If the youth team is shite, then someone needs binned. But we did win the YDL and those players looked more than capable of a step up. We will never all agree on tactics and selection, but thats why we arent football managers. I trust him enough to get it right when it matters and while the league is effectively over, the cups are our most realistic chances of silverware!