Fire in London

[TheDeeDon]

Not often I get moved by what I see on the news, but what I saw on Wednesday morning when I switched on BBC breakfast was horrible, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

I've been reading up on this and surprised that they allow gas into these blocks, I am sure in Scotland, or Aberdeen anyway, gas is not used in tower blocks which makes perfect sense to me. Seems to be a case of new gas pipes being fitted in communal areas and stairwells without being boxed in, nae doubt somebody will have something to do with that to save a quick buck.

 

Hopefully the people of the area can keep up the pressure on this as usually folk from poorer areas get pity in these situations, but no justice.

 

A nice bit on the BBC today comparing this unfortunate tower black with some palatial one built not too far from it, where 1 bedroom apartments cost upwards of £1 million, I bet the folk made homeless due to this will be happy to know this, but I suppose it highlights the sort of screwed up city London is, where money is everything and people are nothing.

 

No doubt property developers will be eyeing up the site for  'tasteful' redevelopment already, complete with a remembrance garden where the survivors can go and pay respect to the people whilst watching rich people go and park their expensive cars in the underground car park of the new 'executive' development which will no doubt be built in it's place.

[rocket_scientist]

What you won't see in your redtop newspapers and your Sky and BBC is the truth, although credit to Channel 4 (as usual) for not ignoring it.

 

The people in London today have been marching on the establishment.

 

Yet the majority of people in the North East saw fit to vote Tory? Fucking thick arseholes.

[Kowalski]

What you won't see in your redtop newspapers and your Sky and BBC is the truth, although credit to Channel 4 (as usual) for not ignoring it.

 

The people in London today have been marching on the establishment.

 

Yet the majority of people in the North East saw fit to vote Tory? Fucking thick arseholes.

 

What have Channel 4 said that nobody else has?

(Genuine question)

[RicoS321]

What have Channel 4 said that nobody else has?

(Genuine question)

 

Just a higher class of coverage, with a lot of interviewees telling it as is. Actually delving into the issues and discussing them. Even the Tory councillor lady that was on dealt with the facts of the matter and wasn't afraid to question her own party's dealing with the situation.

 

I watched BBC last night and it was like a competition to see how long (and how many times) they could prolong a close up on a grieving relative's face. I couldn't watch it tonight, as I suspected it was just be Nicholas Witchell (or is it Peter Hunt these days) lying beneath the queen as she shat a fiery turd into his smiling coupon.

[rocket_scientist]

The influence and power exercised by the mainstream media in the west is being abused and has been for a long time. They are puppets of the establishment, no different from the propagandist machines that "serve" the people in dictatorship-controlled states.

 

This of itself isn't news but the vast majority don't understand as they swallow the dogma and the rhetoric without question, having neither the will nor the way. They trust the plummy accents and the suits and ties and are incapable of exercising basic critical thinking skills. Further, their imaginations are so shallow, it doesn't occur to them that Cameron and Blair and now May and the EU and the US are stealing money from the people on a bigger than industrial scale.

 

People are waking up. Globally. The majority of people in the North East are brain dead, sleepwalking into the future.

 

 

[donsdaft]

Such has always been the way.

 

It'll be interesting to see what replaces the tower.

 

You would think that politically, it would have to be the finest social housing but greed is a powerful emotion.

 

[Kowalski]

Just a higher class of coverage, with a lot of interviewees telling it as is. Actually delving into the issues and discussing them. Even the Tory councillor lady that was on dealt with the facts of the matter and wasn't afraid to question her own party's dealing with the situation.

 

I watched BBC last night and it was like a competition to see how long (and how many times) they could prolong a close up on a grieving relative's face. I couldn't watch it tonight, as I suspected it was just be Nicholas Witchell (or is it Peter Hunt these days) lying beneath the queen as she shat a fiery turd into his smiling coupon.

 

Newsnight was far better IMHO. It's open season on May.

[donsdaft]

Aye, where's your "hardman" image now you hatchet faced cow?

 

 

 

 

 

 

She's beginning to look like Jacob Marley's ghost.

 

 

"Tis a ponderous chain"

[tom_widdows]

I've been reading up on this and surprised that they allow gas into these blocks, I am sure in Scotland, or Aberdeen anyway, gas is not used in tower blocks which makes perfect sense to me. Seems to be a case of new gas pipes being fitted in communal areas and stairwells without being boxed in, nae doubt somebody will have something to do with that to save a quick buck.

 

If gas is not used in any tower blocks in Aberdeen I think you will find it will be for the following reasons

1) When the block was constructed central heating was still a relatively new concept and was not cheap to install so  the good old Electric 3 bar fire and perhaps the classic portable gas heater (about the size of a washing machine with a huge gas canister inside) were dealt out.

2) If a new block the developer reduced costs and went with electric boilers or the god awful white meter heating/ storage heater combination.

 

Retro fitting gas supplies to existing buildings is quite common because it is still cheaper, more efficient and easier to control than electric heating and when you have a high rise with small or non existent service risers the logical place is to put it within the stairwells. The pipes as with all services (electricity, water, data, sprinkler pipes etc) are supposed to be boxed for the following reasons.

1) Protect them from accidental damage or vandalism

2) Seal off the openings in separating walls and floors so any fires cannot spread through or up the service riser into fire protected areas.

 

As far as I am aware the gas supply did not play any part in the fire. If it had i think you wouldn't have a burned out shell of a building, you would have a crater and a blast zone.

 

I am a bit cynical at some of the figures being banded about for the savings/ cut backs in the refurbishment as they just don't add up to me (£5,000 for the cladding etc) but I will not be surprised if the contractor who carried out the works essentially 'bought' the job IE they priced at a loss making figure to themselves with the hope being they would become a preferred contractor for the council and then pick up regular work. Of course as soon as a contractor 'buys' the job they have to ensure they don't make a loss which then brings in seemingly endless 'can we use this/ can we do it this way, instead?'

Its a risky ploy and a fair few contractors have 'gone under' while trying it but for many of them it can be the only way they can trading.

 

There is a John Ruskin quote hanging in my office which I feel it particularly apt for this tragedy

 

'There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.'

 

 

 

[100% Anti Kingsford]

Gave up on BBC News some time ago - particularly the 6 pm news - no analysis at all.  Channel 4 News is groundbreaking - miles ahead of BBC News.

 

Having said that Emily Matliss grilled her but its too easy at the moment - May is in the gutter.

 

What concerns me is the way security services (army, police) use the Media and BBC in particular.  Placed press conferences using soundbites and everything the police say has to be signed off by Downing Street. 

 

Lots of convictions in courts are unsound simply due to creative tones and words used by police.

 

No idea why the police are so pro-Tory govt as they are always moaning about budget cuts.

 

D-Notice (Govt hush up orders) has been mentioned as regards the Grenfell Tower incident but I think it's more red tape as to why numbers have not been confirmed.  They don't know the numbers in that tower as its big families probably living 6 or 7 to a house and there is possibly loads of illegal refugees inside or EU migrants who are not officially listed for work in the UK.  London is full of people living in London sleeping on friends couches.

 

May is clearly not PM material.  Everything she says is script written, no personality whatsoever and no public persona.  Voice sounds robotic.

 

The problems for May are mounting up weekly.  It won't be long until another incident happens in the UK such is the climate at the moment.

[manc_don]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/kensington-chelsea/grenfell-tower-refurbishment-was-not-approved/

 

if this is true, this is appalling (although part of me is glad if that's the right word, because it means the right people will now get fucked).  The borough must be absolutely shitting it now.

[tom_widdows]

However, an online statement from Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea read: "Please note that the status ‘Completed Not approved’ does not mean that the work was not approved under the Building Regulations.

 

"The formal signing off of the work was provided by a completion certificate and not by a full plans decision notice, which was not required in this case. The system status “Not approved” appears because a decision notice was not issued. However, a completion certificate was issued signing off the works under the Building Regulations."

 

Interesting words.

 

I take from this the Council allowed work on their own building to start without building standards approval. That's an offence and Legal action can be taken against you by the local authority.........oh wait!

 

Also given it is an offence to start without a warrant, as soon as a contractor knocked the first hole in a wall, any building's insurance could effectively be declared null & void. Ergo no compensation, no money to fund re-building etc.

 

Civil war may be breaking out in K&C council as if their Building Control Department is anything like a some I've worked with in Scotland, they treat work on their own Council's buildings the same way they would an individual's private house IE there is no favourable treatment or fast tracking.

 

Seeing a copy of this alleged completion certificate and the signature's on it will be interesting.