Scotland squad

[Jute]

Been better in second half but that’s mainly down to Denmark fucking off to the pub at half time. 

[Jute]

Lewis Ferguson now a full international. 

[BigAl]

8 minutes ago, Jute said:

Lewis Ferguson now a full international. 

Did he touch the ball though ?

Fuck it, never mind + £500k on asking price 

[Jute]

[manc_don]

46 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Did he touch the ball though ?

Fuck it, never mind + £500k on asking price 

Too fucking right. 

[dazzy_deff]

1 hour ago, BigAl said:

Did he touch the ball though ?

Fuck it, never mind + £500k on asking price 

Make it a million.

[HaarDon]

We are shite!!

No chance of making the world cup finals.

We have no striker and che Adams is an England reject sorry.

If Clarke had played Nisbet (an actual goalscorer with ability and confidence) about 10 games ago, we may have scored.

Tierney world class? His defending for that first goal was atrocious. 

We must beat Moldova convincingly and beat Austria or we are fucked.

Can't see one of those happening.

 

P.s. this opinion ^^^is not based on the Denmark game alone.

Edited September 3, 2021 by HaarDon

[Jute]

4 hours ago, HaarDon said:

We are shite!!

No chance of making the world cup finals.

We have no striker and che Adams is an England reject sorry.

If Clarke had played Nisbet (an actual goalscorer with ability and confidence) about 10 games ago, we may have scored.

Tierney world class? His defending for that first goal was atrocious. 

We must beat Moldova convincingly and beat Austria or we are fucked.

Can't see one of those happening.

 

P.s. this opinion ^^^is not based on the Denmark game alone.

To be fair to Clarke Nisbet was injured for Wednesday night but agree he should be getting more game time than he does. Tierney did have a poor game by his standards. Has his confidence been knocked by mess Arsenal seem to be in. 
 

Wednesday showed again we have not got the grass routes development right. Denmark have a similar population size to Scotland but regularly produce teams that are better at football and more tactically aware than us. Very few if any of our squad would have got a game for Denmark on Wednesday. 
 

No idea how we put that right but not running the game for the good of two clubs might be a starting point. 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

I think the grass routes argument is nonsense Jute.  I blame the coaches/management and cannot help but feel we should be getting more out of this group of players.  That starting team the other night had 8 English Premiership players in it.  Ok, they are not all playing at elite teams, some Norwich, Newcastle etc but still they are playing against good players each week so international fitba is certainly not a step up as such.  But we were so outclassed in that first half it really could have ended 6-0, I was almost hiding behind the sofa after the second goal went in. 

Other international teams we play just seem to have so much more of a unity about them and you have almost got to scrape them off the pitch.  That Israel team for example is so much better than the sum of their parts yet ours never seems to be.  We never get a result against a team we would not expect to.  We're just too easy to play against, we need some nasty players.

I also reckon there is some truth in what Strachan said about out players being too small, even though he got laughed at for it.  Seeing guys like Gilmour and Fraser the other night, they are just not physically imposing enough. We lose far too many goals from headers and score very few times from set pieces.

[HaarDon]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I think the grass routes argument is nonsense Jute.  I blame the coaches/management and cannot help but feel we should be getting more out of this group of players.  That starting team the other night had 8 English Premiership players in it.  Ok, they are not all playing at elite teams, some Norwich, Newcastle etc but still they are playing against good players each week so international fitba is certainly not a step up as such.  But we were so outclassed in that first half it really could have ended 6-0, I was almost hiding behind the sofa after the second goal went in. 

Other international teams we play just seem to have so much more of a unity about them and you have almost got to scrape them off the pitch.  That Israel team for example is so much better than the sum of their parts yet ours never seems to be.  We never get a result against a team we would not expect to.  We're just too easy to play against, we need some nasty players.

I also reckon there is some truth in what Strachan said about out players being too small, even though he got laughed at for it.  Seeing guys like Gilmour and Fraser the other night, they are just not physically imposing enough. We lose far too many goals from headers and score very few times from set pieces.

Absolutely this^^

Some of the so called minnows have flair players that can score goals out of nothing.

We can't score out of something.

[LA-Don]

Here’s what I see, same applies to us at club level too. 
 

we dont work hard enough. When we have the ball we cannot keep it. Other teams force a mistake or force us to go long. We’re also desperate to go forward instead of keeping the ball so play it long. Keep it until theres an opportunity to really go forward. Boring going sideways and backwards but it’s a game of chess, not route 1. We don’t work hard enough off the ball to create simple passes. Other teams do. That’s coaching and tactics.

defensively we dont work hard enough. Other teams make it hard for us to play, we don’t make it hard enough for them. Case and point Denmark’s first goal, far to easy to play the ball forward for the boy to score. Horrible goal to lose (regardless of tierney’s shit defending.)

when we played England we worked hard enough. Still went long too much but we rarely see that effort.

I also think it’s an excuse to say we don’t have the players. I think we do, our premiership players, plus a few from Scotland, are good enough to field a solid national team. The primitive tactics and poor effort prevent that. 
 

I agree about minnows having flair players. Same reason I’ve cried out for the dons signing a true #10. I’d play Ryan Christie every game. But he doesn’t fit the more direct style of tactics. Just like the dons, we naturally go long when we have a target man, dykes or Sam cosgrove. Change the mindset and play through and around teams. We do have the players at national level and we see many of them do it in the style of play their club team plays.

 

[HaarDon]

We have some very good outfield players LA Don.

What we don't have and haven't had for a decade since McFadden (who was brilliant), is a striker who can score goals for Scotland. 

 

[LA-Don]

3 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

We have some very good outfield players LA Don.

What we don't have and haven't had for a decade since McFadden (who was brilliant), is a striker who can score goals for Scotland. 

 

Maybe maybe not. Dykes certainly had a rough euros but do we create enough chances for any striker to score? Can’t blame the forwards if we don’t create. I rate Adams, don’t know enough about nisbet, but as a true 9 on the last man I think Adams does a job. Play Christie at 10, and width from Fraser and Forrest for example. Or perhaps Christie wide and turnbull through the middle at 10 because I know we really don’t have a left winger.

problem is, much like Aberdeen, we have an abundance of box to box or holding midfielders, mcginn, mcgregor, mctominay, Gilmour, McLean, fleck, jack, that we cater to. Add Ferguson to that list. We don’t play flair, and don’t create enough. And yes, we are limited with creative wingers, i’d even play Robertson as left mid/wing ahead of Tierney at LB.

I think we’ve got a decent squad to play a 4-2-3-1 but obviously need players fit and available. Plus in Paterson and Ramsay I think we are set at right back for a long time. Much as glass has done with Ramsay, clarke needs to pick both in the squad and play them. They are good enough.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Compared to a team like Wales, which I think we could all say their first eleven and ours are comparable, they get FAR more out of their players than us.  Watching them in the Euros, Bale, Ramsay, James and Ward (because he used to play for us) apart, I had not heard of the other 7 in their team yet they still qualified from their group and gave a decent account of themselves.  We were struggling to score a goal, never mind win a game.  I would say that arguably, on paper, our team is better than theirs.

Consistency of selection has also been a bugbear of mine for a while with the national team.  Opposition national teams always seem to have numerous players with loads of caps and we don't.  We are so sporadic in our selection and just seem to play whoever is flavour of the month and Clarke has done exactly the same in his time as manager.  One minute we have Shankland up front, then we go with Brophy for a couple of games, then it's Burke then McBurnie, Fraser, Christie, Dykes, Adams, Nisbet.  Same at centre back, McKenna looks like a first pick then he's out for Gallagher who looks like the number one centre half.  Then he changes his mind and plays Bates, Considine, Cooper, now it's Hanley.  Ridiculous.  Choose a group of players, stick with them and give them a chance to build a bit of familiarity and confidence in each other.

[RicoS321]

6 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Compared to a team like Wales, which I think we could all say their first eleven and ours are comparable, they get FAR more out of their players than us.  Watching them in the Euros, Bale, Ramsay, James and Ward (because he used to play for us) apart, I had not heard of the other 7 in their team yet they still qualified from their group and gave a decent account of themselves.  We were struggling to score a goal, never mind win a game.  I would say that arguably, on paper, our team is better than theirs.

Consistency of selection has also been a bugbear of mine for a while with the national team.  Opposition national teams always seem to have numerous players with loads of caps and we don't.  We are so sporadic in our selection and just seem to play whoever is flavour of the month and Clarke has done exactly the same in his time as manager.  One minute we have Shankland up front, then we go with Brophy for a couple of games, then it's Burke then McBurnie, Fraser, Christie, Dykes, Adams, Nisbet.  Same at centre back, McKenna looks like a first pick then he's out for Gallagher who looks like the number one centre half.  Then he changes his mind and plays Bates, Considine, Cooper, now it's Hanley.  Ridiculous.  Choose a group of players, stick with them and give them a chance to build a bit of familiarity and confidence in each other.

Clarke didn't change his mind on those players, injuries and covid happened. McKenna was replaced by Tierney, with Gallagher in for Souttar and Hendry (and Bates). There is very little between those players, hence trying them out. Similarly in the striker role, there has been zero stand out candidate, hence why mcburnie got so many minutes before dykes came in. Nisbet isn't good enough yet and might never be. 

He was tactically poor against Denmark with a poor starting lineup. That said, our squad is thin in too many important areas (Wales have good players in the right areas, Bale especially). Gilmour is fantastic, but we also need a fit McGinn to get close to the front two. When you fall back on guys like Armstrong and McLean the cracks begin to appear as they don't offer anything different. Beyond our best starting eleven we're not good enough to make up for the areas we're deficient in (right back and striker). Like McInnes, Clarke has a complete aversion to useful subs and takes too long to change a game. Like McInnes, he won't take a risk. 

Scotland can't afford to make glaring errors like the Denmark game, and it happens too often under Clarke. The problem is that he's also probably about (I mean about, the options are all similar) the best manager we can expect at that price and job prestige. He's very good with the players and they all know what they're supposed to be doing, it's just too often that the tactics are simply incorrect.

We'll beat Moldova tomorrow though, looking forward to it, been a while since I've been to Hampden.

 

[HaarDon]

We should beat Moldova easily. We need a 4 or 5-0 game but can't see it.

I think Nisbet is way better than Dykes for actually scoring goals. Dykes is very good at nodding down balls and has good presence but not a great goalscorer for us.

Nisbet's game/goal ratio is 2-1 (a striker with confidence).

Why don't we try both against Moldova and get Adams on later to replace Nisbet.

Full on attack

 

 

[RicoS321]

9 hours ago, HaarDon said:

We should beat Moldova easily. We need a 4 or 5-0 game but can't see it.

I think Nisbet is way better than Dykes for actually scoring goals. Dykes is very good at nodding down balls and has good presence but not a great goalscorer for us.

Nisbet's game/goal ratio is 2-1 (a striker with confidence).

Why don't we try both against Moldova and get Adams on later to replace Nisbet.

Full on attack

 

 

Because Nisbet being good enough against Moldova doesn't make him good enough against Austria. Just as he's good against the bottom six but less so against the top six. That's the whole point about the striker position at the moment. It's like the dons a few years back when Rooney was up front. He was great against 80% of the opposition but wasn't good enough to get something in the vital games that would have won us a cup or taken us into the group stages in Europe. Nisbet, Shankland, Griffiths etc are all lacking in key areas that means that they get out-muscled and offer little against more dominant teams. Nisbet isn't strong enough to be a target man against Austria and nor is he quick enough to take it in the channels, lay it off and get into the box and still have the guile to nip in at the front or back post. There is no defining feature in Nisbet's game - yet - that will make him good enough for international football. Dykes has the attributes of work rate and strength that at least performed a function. Adams might be fast and skillful enough to make it but I'm not convinced. Nisbet isn't good enough in one single area of his game that wouldn't be easily nullified by a strong opponent, just like Rooney was nearly always anonymous against the Tims. Kenny Miller is a good example of a player suited to international football. His finishing wasn't amazing, but even against the best teams his extremely high work rate and pace allowed us to get the ball up the pitch and get others up in support and eventually create chances. Steven Fletcher would cause problems with his hold up play, but wasn't a great finisher (dykes similar). They both allowed us to get into the game into the opponent's half and allow our players in positions where we are strong to get involved. It was obvious against Denmark that neither Adams or Fraser had any attributes that trouble the Danes, thus the ball consistently came back at us in short order. 

I like Nisbet, he's good and has potential. He might play the game of his life in the same way the others might. If we're playing him though, it has to be alongside Dykes as Nisbet isn't capable of doing the ugly stuff on his own and Adams not quite there either. If I'd have to categorise Nisbet, I'd say he's like a young Kris Boyd. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

[HaarDon]

The one defining feature of Nisbet is ....wait for it...he IS scoring goals (every 2nd game at least.)

He may not score against Austria but he has more chance than any other striker we have I would say.

The stats for all the rest are clear as day.

They cannot score after chance after chance.

Nisbet needs more games in a Scotland shirt.

We have no chance of beating Austria in Austria. Lucky if we draw with them.

Mcginn coming back will help I believe but we just aren't scoring goals.

Dykes is a shite goalscorer.

We will be whipping tons of balls in against Moldova so we need either a big defender in there or a strike from a Moldovian clearance.

Hope they've been practising both in training.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by HaarDon

[RicoS321]

29 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

The one defining feature of Nisbet is ....wait for it...he IS scoring goals (every 2nd game at least.)

He may not score against Austria but he has more chance than any other striker we have I would say.

The stats for all the rest are clear as day.

They cannot score after chance after chance.

Nisbet needs more games in a Scotland shirt.

We have no chance of beating Austria in Austria. Lucky if we draw with them.

Mcginn coming back will help I believe but we just aren't scoring goals.

Dykes is a shite goalscorer.

We will be whipping tons of balls in against Moldova so we need either a big defender in there or a strike from a Moldovian clearance.

Hope they've been practising both in training.

 

But Dykes was a proven goalscorer for Livingston in the spfl, as Adams would be too. It's a poor argument. Boyd was a proven spfl goalscorer, as was Griffiths and neither replicated at international level. If he doesn't score against likes of Austria then he's no better than Dykes or Adams. The question was about why Wales etc can perform better than us and the answer is simply that in the key areas such as striker, we're not good enough. We have to basically play the form player, whether that's Shankland, Nisbet or Brophy (or whoever) in the hope that they may improve to a level that offers something against the teams that we need to pick up points in. Nisbet is definitely our best option, but currently he's understandably behind the other two. 

There are two approaches to today's game. The first is to play Dykes and Adams and hope that they score some goals and develop a partnership in time for Austria, or to play Nisbet with a view to him starting the Austria game alongside Dykes or Adams (I can't see him alongside Adams, he'll need the flick ons and hold up play). It'll be interesting to see what Clarke chooses, it's not an enviable choice. Having McGinn back will make a big difference to the shape of the midfield though which should help.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

11 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Clarke didn't change his mind on those players, injuries and covid happened. McKenna was replaced by Tierney, with Gallagher in for Souttar and Hendry (and Bates). There is very little between those players, hence trying them out. Similarly in the striker role, there has been zero stand out candidate, hence why mcburnie got so many minutes before dykes came in. Nisbet isn't good enough yet and might never be. 

He was tactically poor against Denmark with a poor starting lineup. That said, our squad is thin in too many important areas (Wales have good players in the right areas, Bale especially). Gilmour is fantastic, but we also need a fit McGinn to get close to the front two. When you fall back on guys like Armstrong and McLean the cracks begin to appear as they don't offer anything different. Beyond our best starting eleven we're not good enough to make up for the areas we're deficient in (right back and striker). Like McInnes, Clarke has a complete aversion to useful subs and takes too long to change a game. Like McInnes, he won't take a risk. 

Scotland can't afford to make glaring errors like the Denmark game, and it happens too often under Clarke. The problem is that he's also probably about (I mean about, the options are all similar) the best manager we can expect at that price and job prestige. He's very good with the players and they all know what they're supposed to be doing, it's just too often that the tactics are simply incorrect.

We'll beat Moldova tomorrow though, looking forward to it, been a while since I've been to Hampden.

 

I just don't think he knows his best team Rico and chops and changes for the sake of it at times.  For example, Declan Gallagher played in the matches leading up to qualification for the Euros and looked like a rock, our best defender in my opinion.  Then during the Euros (and now) he wasn't even in the team.  Stuart Armstrong has been a bit part player for Clarke, coming on as a sub numerous times yet he decides to start him in the opening game against the Czechs. Christie is in the team one minute, out the other.  Fraser looked great for a couple of games up front with Dykes then he doesn't play him.  Dykes appears to be the number one striker then he doesn't start against Denmark.  In the absence of O'Donnell and Patterson against Denmark why the hell are we resorting to playing a left back at right back?  What's happened to Callum Paterson, Liam Palmer etc?  Can't we at least find a player who plays that position for their club?  

There is just no consistency at all.  Tierney, Robertson and McGinn aside, do we really have a clue who the other 8 players will be in the starting 11 tonight?  The only outfield player with over 40 caps is Andy Robertson which says a lot.

I, like many thought Clarke was a decent appointment.  He did unbelievably well at Kilmarnock and deserved his chance.  But can anyone, honestly say, we look any better than we did before he came in?  To me, we still look like a dreadful international side, capable of being beaten by ANYONE.  I have just totally lost faith with him.  

Clarke has been in charge for 25 games, winning 9.  Those 9 have been against Cyprus (x2), San Marino, Kazakhstan, Czechs (x2), Slovakia, Faroes and Luxembourg.  Just to add, one of those games against the Czechs was when their entire first 11 were changed due to covid. 

We will beat Moldova tonight but I don't think we have a hope of winning in Austria to be honest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I just don't think he knows his best team Rico and chops and changes for the sake of it at times.  For example, Declan Gallagher played in the matches leading up to qualification for the Euros and looked like a rock, our best defender in my opinion.  Then during the Euros (and now) he wasn't even in the team.  Stuart Armstrong has been a bit part player for Clarke, coming on as a sub numerous times yet he decides to start him in the opening game against the Czechs. Christie is in the team one minute, out the other.  Fraser looked great for a couple of games up front with Dykes then he doesn't play him.  Dykes appears to be the number one striker then he doesn't start against Denmark.  In the absence of O'Donnell and Patterson against Denmark why the hell are we resorting to playing a left back at right back?  What's happened to Callum Paterson, Liam Palmer etc?  Can't we at least find a player who plays that position for their club?  

There is just no consistency at all.  Tierney, Robertson and McGinn aside, do we really have a clue who the other 8 players will be in the starting 11 tonight?  The only outfield player with over 40 caps is Andy Robertson which says a lot.

I, like many thought Clarke was a decent appointment.  He did unbelievably well at Kilmarnock and deserved his chance.  But can anyone, honestly say, we look any better than we did before he came in?  To me, we still look like a dreadful international side, capable of being beaten by ANYONE.  I have just totally lost faith with him.  

Clarke has been in charge for 25 games, winning 9.  Those 9 have been against Cyprus (x2), San Marino, Kazakhstan, Czechs (x2), Slovakia, Faroes and Luxembourg.  Just to add, one of those games against the Czechs was when their entire first 11 were changed due to covid. 

We will beat Moldova tonight but I don't think we have a hope of winning in Austria to be honest.

I agree with the last couple of paragraphs, but the chopping and changing has been entirely outwith his control. I think we roughly know his preferred team but international football just isn't a priority and as such we have folk missing regularly. You're then into the dregs where you end up trying out players. Because we don't have players in two or three positions that you can rely on to be first picks, you then do have to look at form. Dykes as an example has been poor for his club, so it becomes difficult to justify playing him even though it has obvious tactical merit. Guys like Armstrong are good players who play at the top level but they don't bring the same balance as Jack, McGregor, Gilmour or McGinn, one of whom is nearly always missing.

[HaarDon]

Rico I'm not saying Nisbet will be the striker we have been looking for.

I'm saying all the others mentioned below have had numerous chances and failed miserably. Nisbet hasn't , therefore Clarke by now should have tried and tested him as Dyke, the utterly shit mcburnie and Adams have all had enough chances and failed.

We will not beat Austria next week and as a result fail to qualify sadly.

 

[Jute]

[Jute]

Well that was pish. From the Omni shambles trying to access the ground to finishing the game with 5 defenders on the field against Moldova. Did their keeper have a decent save to make. Not a chance we finish better than 4th in this group.

[LA-Don]

Brutal. Yes we missed a ton of chances but they were truly awful. As has been mentioned, no consistency of players or formation. We have no style of play or continuity, not exactly sure what we are trying to do when we have the ball. I understand you can only pick the available players, but at least implement a system and formation for a squad to learn.

he scored the winner but I think dykes looks worse with every game. He and Nesbit are not a partnership either.