RicoS321 Posted November 16 Report Posted November 16 1 hour ago, BigAl said: Fair does Rico I was reading your post at the same time as listening to them saying we couldn't finish ahead of Croatia because we didn't get a second and stupidly misread your post as being in agreement with this error Unfortunately, it all appears set up for a classic glorious Scottish failure where we have the spoils in our grasp, just to have them snatched away in the 98th minute or so Aye, I noticed the BBC got it wrong, useless cunts. I should say that I wasn't trying to be overly critical of what was a very good win either, just when you said that it was a massive three points, I reckon that it might not be in the end. It still could be, of course, and here's hoping we at least do our bit against Poland. I don't know all the permutations in terms of finishing second or third, but it seems to be that if we beat Poland but miss out on goal difference, that could be the difference between first pot and ending up in pot three for the world cup draw? That's fairly massive if so, and we could be looking back at this result well beyond Monday. 1 Quote
tom_widdows Posted November 16 Report Posted November 16 (edited) 2nd = quarter final place (milking the finals for all they can) 3rd = relegation playoff vs a group B runner up 4th = relegation to group B Edited November 16 by tom_widdows 2 Quote
RicoS321 Posted November 16 Report Posted November 16 7 minutes ago, tom_widdows said: 2nd = quarter final place (milking the finals for all they can) 3rd = relegation playoff vs a group B runner up 4th = relegation to group B Nice one, thanks. So winning against Poland will give us a chance to remain in group A at least. However, will that be enough to get us into pot 2 for the draw, or is it still the two pot drop from 1 to 3 if we don't finish second? Quote
Jute Posted November 16 Report Posted November 16 Thought I read last night that staying in Group A means pot 2 and if we were to win and Czechs didn’t win we would sneak into pot 1 but can’t find article now so it may have been drunk hallucinations on train back. Czech drew 0-0 tonight. 1 Quote
OrlandoDon Posted November 17 Report Posted November 17 I suppose it’s appropriate to acknowledge that 3 of the 4 teams are playing for something so not just us. I could totally see Croatia drawing or beating Portugal. Portugal may even experiment with players. as for us, we always fail in games like this, plus Poland are playing for something. The norm would be that we are 2 down at half time again and get a 2-2, piling forward for the win and we’re plucky losers yet again. would love to see a good win, win by 2 and Portugal win, but I just dont see it. We don’t have fresh players to bring in and two hard games on 3 days is a tough ask. I do t care that they have a few players out, despite what I said above I’m predicting 1-1. Quote
Jute Posted November 17 Report Posted November 17 We should have beaten Poland at Hampden but individual errors cost us. I am confident we can win this one. Portugal having nothing to play for is probably the bigger issue. Quote
RicoS321 Posted November 17 Report Posted November 17 15 minutes ago, Jute said: Portugal having nothing to play for is probably the bigger issue. I think so. They definitely can't be relied on to win by two, so we have to go all out against Poland and try and win by two or score three (if we win 3-2 and Croatia lose 1-0 then I think we go through, as we'd draw level on goals scored). Obviously we'll get more of an idea in play, and it'll be interesting to see Clarke's approach. For example, if we're winning 1-0 and Portugal and Croatia are drawing, will Clarke sit in for the victory so as not to risk third place, or will he go for a second goal and hope Portugal sneak a goal? I suspect he'll do the former. I think Clarke is an excellent manager, but he is fairly cautious. Quote
Jute Posted November 17 Report Posted November 17 1 hour ago, RicoS321 said: I think so. They definitely can't be relied on to win by two, so we have to go all out against Poland and try and win by two or score three (if we win 3-2 and Croatia lose 1-0 then I think we go through, as we'd draw level on goals scored). Obviously we'll get more of an idea in play, and it'll be interesting to see Clarke's approach. For example, if we're winning 1-0 and Portugal and Croatia are drawing, will Clarke sit in for the victory so as not to risk third place, or will he go for a second goal and hope Portugal sneak a goal? I suspect he'll do the former. I think Clarke is an excellent manager, but he is fairly cautious. Still think it was Clarke’s caution that caused our exit in Euros. He is not the sort of manager to go for it from the off. Against Hungary we were clearly sitting in and hoping to sneak one on the break. Hopefully he has learned his lesson and we go for it tomorrow. 1 Quote
RicoS321 Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 17 hours ago, Jute said: Still think it was Clarke’s caution that caused our exit in Euros. He is not the sort of manager to go for it from the off. Against Hungary we were clearly sitting in and hoping to sneak one on the break. Hopefully he has learned his lesson and we go for it tomorrow. Not to labour the point (okay, completely to labour the point, because I always do!), but the time to learn the lesson was on Friday night against ten men, and to instill it into the players at half time. This team are here for the taking, and when we get the first goal we need to keep pressing as hard as we can to get a second. To me, the sending off should have flicked a switch, and Clarke could have told his players at half time that winning by two was the best chance we'd get to finish second. Maybe he did, but changed his mind again because we scored so late, but it didn't appear to be the case. If interviewers in this country were a little better, it would be a really interesting chat with Clarke to get his thoughts on this. Specifically, what they knew going into the match, what they knew at half time (when playing against ten), and what they told the players as a result. Did they know the permutations? Did they look beyond finishing second or last and onto the world cup pots? I really enjoy the nations' league, but clearly world cup qualification is the pinnacle here. We might have lost or drawn to Croatia by pursuing a second, but that would still have meant that beating Poland by a two goal margin would have put us third, which is the same target we have to aim for tonight. It's difficult to overstate just how big a difference pot 1 to pot 3 makes in qualification, and that should be the sole focus of our nations' league campaign (to give us the ebst chance of qualifying for WC). Pot 2 is possible if Greece lose away to Finland (Norway or Romania unlikely to lose at home to Kazakhstan or Cyprus respectively), but really it's pot 1 or drop to 3, and that would have been fairly clear on Friday. I'd love to hear what Clarke thinks of this, and not just the usual "one game at a time" platitudes. Clearly it's important to look ahead in a league format with the pots the way they are, to ignore it would be stupid (and I don't think Clarke would). Maybe he views Pot 3 as better than Pot 1 because we still get a good Pot 2 team, and the team in Pot 1 usually beats everyone anyway, so we don't get the uncertainty of a decent Pot 3 team to worry about. That certainly worked in the last qualification, where swapping Spain for, say, Greece or someone would have probably worked out worse for us. I'd be intrigued to see the depth of thought they put into this, or if they just don't want to consider it. Quote
OrlandoDon Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 So doak was our best player against Croatia and there’s questions whether he starts tonight?? Explain!!! we need to win, preferably by two, we should be playing our best 11 for this game. Unless he’s injured why wouldn’t he start? Youthful energy and enthusiasm is a good thing, no? Quote
RicoS321 Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 2 hours ago, OrlandoDon said: So doak was our best player against Croatia and there’s questions whether he starts tonight?? Explain!!! we need to win, preferably by two, we should be playing our best 11 for this game. Unless he’s injured why wouldn’t he start? Youthful energy and enthusiasm is a good thing, no? He's young and has had a couple of longish term injuries to date, and has only just started getting serious minutes at first team level this season. I think Middlesborough are taking his progress reasonably slowly too, so there might be pressure from them not to overdo it. I'm fairly certain he'll start though unless he's got any strains or tightness. Scotland are more important than some North of England losers. Quote
Jute Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 Doak in is good Hanley and Dykes in not so much. Quote
Jute Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 Oh and how Ralston gets in ahead of Devlin is beyond me. Quote
RicoS321 Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 I guess Ralston is just the safe bet as he's had a number of caps now. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw Devlin at some point, as Ralston hasn't played two whole games this season. Dykes is an understandable inclusion, Conway wasn't amazing. I'm very surprised at Hanley getting in on his wrong side ahead of McKenna. Maybe McKenna still getting back to fitness? He was a big upgrade in that second half, simply because he moved the ball forward more quickly. That's not necessarily a criticism of Hanley, who was fine defensively, just that when you're taking the ball on your wrong foot you often need an extra touch - something we can ill afford in a game we need to win (and preferably by two). I'd also maybe have gone for Christie in his club role, alongside Gilmour, but McLean has done quite well over the last few games, so fair enough. Thank fuck Gordon made it too. Quote
BigAl Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 Jesus H Christ otherwise known as John McGinn Quote
Jute Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 Great move for the goal and good finish. Defence looks shit however. Both teams to score was the bet tonight. Quote
BigAl Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 What a let off that was Starting to seriously ride our luck here Quote
Jute Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 Gilmour so unlucky with one off bar. McTomminay should have scored. Quote
BigAl Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 Wow, just wow So used to boring Scotland performances, but by fuck that was some half of football. Much as we rode our luck at times, we also had numerous chances. Could easily be three each or the likes, so will happily settle for being one up Quote
RicoS321 Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 That was a hell of an open game of fitba. Great stuff like. We're playing some fantastic football in attack. Think Clarke's been on the phone to Jimmy. Quote
RicoS321 Posted November 18 Report Posted November 18 We're still playing well. Ralston tiring, so expect the game is poised for a Devlin winner off the bench. Quote
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