Scotland squad

[donsdaft]

.......and I’m doing very well

[rocket_scientist]

It's a weird one but legally, there is no doubt that the child can assume the nationality of the father, wherever they are domiciled. Probably the nationality of the mother too.. I'm sure that private international law would've caught up with equality rights in the last 35/40 years.

 

There is a concept of natural domicile too in that a person can take the nationality of the place that they normally live in, although each state will have their own rules on this i.e. how long, passport application criteria etc. For example, my wife and I got offered Australian nationality in 1994. We said get fucked. Not literally you understand. We sold up and shipped out. The invite gave us the opportunity to reflect on our future and living amongst those racist thick pigs and having our kids being Australian was never going to happen.

[Ten Caat]

.......and I’m doing very well

 

But did you get up between her Rum and her Ribena?

[Barcosente]

International football nations have been at this game of selecting players from other territories for years.

Scotland are just doing what others have been doing for years but to a far more watered down extent.

 

Take the French team for instance. For years, they have selected players from the Caribbean island of Guadeloupe to represent their country. The place is a dump, yet the island churn out International players by the dozen.

France take advantage of colonial ties for this very purpose.

The French leagues are full of Guadeloupe born players.

 

The Germans of course have players that could represent Turkey if they wanted and vice versa.

USA have selected players who could have played for Mexico, Costa Rica, Chile to name a few.

Portugal and Brazil both have had players represent them that could have played for the others with no qualms.

Japan had a Brazilian play for them a few years back, because he took Japanese citizenship.

Russia have used a similar tactic for players from former Russian territories and beyond.

Your man Putin has also offered Russian Citizenship to a couple of lads as I recall.

Australia have had Greeks, Croatians (Mark Viduka anyone?) and numerous other nationalities represent them.

Tiny Gibraltar have a mix of all 4 home countries playing for them.

 

Scotland a long while back tried to tempt Matt Le Tissier and Graham Le Saux tentatively, because the Channel Islands are British territory.

 

My point here is that McLeish is being less underhand about this that the examples above.

If a good player from a British territory declared an interest in playing for Scotland, would Scotland turn him down just because he wasn't born here?

If Ronaldo had a half brother who was half as good as his brother and had a Scottish dad, would Scotland tell him to jog on?

 

International football doesn't really "float my boat", but just about everyone else is "at it", so if you want to remain crap then stick to half baked aniquated principals and get rid of anyone who sounds like an extra off Eastenders from the squad.

While we are at it, if players refuse to eat haggis, shortbread and drink Irn Bru before matches, then strike them too.

Maybe get rid of anyone also who doesn't have "peelie wallie" skin or know the words of "Donald far's yer troosers"?

 

Modern International football is a far cry from the stuff that the sometimes cringeworthy "Tartan Army (Sorry Rod, you can't follow us anymore)" used to follow and watch while guys like Brown (The first one), Docherty and Ormond were in charge.

 

If Scotland can find a decent Brazilian with a Scottish granny, then go for it.

Scotland would just be doing what everyone else is doing.

 

 

[donsdaft]

But did you get up between her Rum and her Ribena?

 

 

 

 

You know, there was a story recently about a mother who was deaf, who took her daughter to some concert or other.

Something a 14 year old girl would like.

 

Anyway the mother sued the band for not providing sign language and therefore spoiling her night out.

 

It could have been pish, I hope it was pish.

 

I did however imagine someone signing the intro to Plastow Patricia.

[donsdaft]

A lawless brat from a council flat oh oh.

[manc_don]

My tuppence worth and tin hat well and truly on.  Personally I couldn't give a shit where they're from. Living in the "they must be born in Scotland" frame of mind is frankly incredibly outdated an probably borderline racist.  The worlds population is a transient one and I think it's somewhat narrow minded to think that someone has to be born in a place to "be" from that place.  Probably because I was born abroad to international parents,  I've never understood this view.  If they've got Scottish relatives and want to play for the country (on the basis they're good enough) then why the hell not?  Move with the times guys, yay for inclusiveness

 

Besides, i'm sick of seeing the same failing dour huntim faces turn up for the national team, widen the net so they're not tarnished with that shite.

[donsdaft]

Nothing borderline about it.

 

Representing " your country " is racist.

 

Of course it is, it's tribal, it's what we all are.

 

Anyway, I'm being pulled into the wrong side of this argument, I prefer to be a citizen of the world.

 

But if you're going to have an international team then at least make it Scottish.

 

 

Otherwise it's going to be all about money again, and we already have enough  of those kind of competitions .

 

If we made the ruling whatever country you stay in, then the English would have some fuckin team, and we wouldn't want that now, would we.

[manc_don]

 

If we made the ruling whatever country you stay in, then the English would have some fuckin team, and we wouldn't want that now, would we.

 

Haha that's not what I meant. I'd still say they'd have to have a link but to say they have to be born and bred Scottish is lunacy. The world doesn't work like that.

[Tyrant]

I've not yet heard from either Alex McLeish or Ronald Koeman.  First one to call me gets my service. I hope it's Ronald obviously because I strongly dislike the vast majority of the Scotland players and staff.

 

"Joking" aside I'm happy enough for the boy McTominay to play for Scotland if he genuinely wants to. I don't doubt that he'd be proud to represent Scotland. I was born in Scotland and have lived here most of my life bar a few years as a young kid in Holland. My Dad is Dutch and I consider myself half Dutch. Although when Scotland have played Holland I have always supported Scotland. I was at Hampden (with my Mum and Dad) in 2003 and when Scotland beat Holland 1-0 in the first leg of the play off it was a sweet day. Followed by the inevitable 6-0 in the return leg which was devastating at the time. But I have always considered myself a half Dutch Scot rather than a half Scot Nederlander.

 

Brazil in 1994 and 1998, Portugal in 2006, Fucking Spain in 2010 and Argentina in 2014 all reminded me for the wrong reasons how much I cared about the Dutch national team.  Scotland have done me the favour of sparing me painful defeats on the big stage by not getting to the big stage so thank you for that, Scotland. I now Holland are doing the same 

 

So I'm going to have to find another nationality to ride the coat tails of through another major tournament.

[donsdaft]

This is the problem really, do you get to choose?

 

It all sounds very reasonable until you realise that all the best players are going to choose the country that pays them most.

[Tyrant]

This is the problem really, do you get to choose?

 

It all sounds very reasonable until you realise that all the best players are going to choose the country that pays them most.

 

 

Apparently some players do get to choose. But it's maybe not a black and white decision. If I was an international class football (and I could have been if I had a lot more ability and commitment) I'd have a few things to consider:

 

Based purely on what nationality you identify most as: Scotland

Based on who you'd have a better chance of playing for regularly: Scotland

Based on who you're more likely to win things with: Holland

Based on who pays you more: fuck knows because as far as I knew you didn't get paid for international football although I understand those day may now be in the past.

 

 

[donsdaft]

You don't get paid?

I bet the expenses are generous.

 

So Tyrant ( with a lot more ability and commitment)

 

Come and live in (insert country here)

 

Free house

exemption from tax

hot and cold running women

 

etc. etc.

 

If it's a minging country do don't even have t live there, just say you do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where do I sign?

[rocket_scientist]

The question of nationality, from a legal point of view is an interesting one. Private International Law, like Roman Law, Jurisprudence and the law of Evidence were amongst the more interesting and memorable of the stuff they gave us at Aberdeen Uni. Not that it was taught in relation to footballers but where you have people in dispute cross border, it's important to establish what the "proper law" of the contract should be, before any resolution can be found.

 

Where we are born was surprisingly not as influential as we might have thought, the nationality of the father/parents and where we are domiciled being bigger considerations. Like most things however, there are grey areas. The boy of Nigerian parents who moved to England aged 4 may end up playing for either Nigeria or the guffies but what about the Nigerian student who came to the UK aged 18? And what if he started at Warwick Uni but did his postgrad in Edinburgh? Or the boy who was 15 when he came to Runcorn with his Nigerian mum, having since divorced his Swiss dad?

 

I say play for whatever country you feel like as long as it's not a contrived or tenuous connection and there is criteria that enables you to play for that country. That's where Fifa come in. If they articulate the eligibility criteria - which I'm sure they will have done - there shouldn't be any dispute. I want my son to play for Lithuania. He's never been there and neither have I but I hear the women are stunning there. Unfortunately he's not good enough to play for Scotland so we need to cast his net further afield. Once we get the eligibility rules, I'm sure we can make up that we lived there once upon a time and let's face it, Lithuania can do with any additional options they can get.

[donsdaft]

If you've shagged a woman from that country, does that count?

 

would ANYONE trust FIFA to make up a decent set of rules?

 

Nah, I'm sticking to the place of your birth, but seeing myself in a minority am prepared to extend it to include your Fathers nationality.

 

Girls football can have mothers nationality instead if they want.

 

Can't say fairer than that.

 

 

 

 

Either way this man u. bugger is English is he?

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Great discussion, and very different opinions of what makes someone Scottish.

 

I don't think you necessarily need to be born here but I think you should have lived here or have been educated here to qualify. 

 

There was the case of Andy Driver a few years ago who had been schooled here so he "felt" Scottish.  Fair enough, if you have been bought up in a country and integrated into their way of life then there's a good chance you will feel like you are from that country.

 

In McTominay's case though, he was born in Lancaster and has lived in England all his days so don't quite get why he would feel Scottish?

 

I also think that when results go pear-shaped these types of players are the first ones to be picked on by the fans. 

[Tyrant]

Great discussion, and very different opinions of what makes someone Scottish.

 

I don't think you necessarily need to be born here but I think you should have lived here or have been educated here to qualify. 

 

There was the case of Andy Driver a few years ago who had been schooled here so he "felt" Scottish.  Fair enough, if you have been bought up in a country and integrated into their way of life then there's a good chance you will feel like you are from that country.

 

In McTominay's case though, he was born in Lancaster and has lived in England all his days so don't quite get why he would feel Scottish?

 

I also think that when results go pear-shaped these types of players are the first ones to be picked on by the fans.

 

Assuming his faither is a proud Scot then I can understand it. He probably feels Scottish and English and would have probably played for either. He'll have chosen Scotland because he kens he'll struggle to play for England who have better options.

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

He probably feels Scottish and English

 

Poor bastard, we'll hiv to knock that oot o him.  Yi canna be a little bit pregnant 

 

If his dad was fae London and he was brought up in Manchester he wouldna be a cockney.

[Ten Caat]

Just cannot agree with the residency rule. Driver being a good example, represented Scotland at schoolboy level then playing for England at U21 level. Once he realised he wasn't going to be good enough to play senior for England he declared himself Scottish again and IIRC the SFA actually changed their residency rules to allow him to play senior for us although he never actually did so as it turned out he just wasn't very good.....and Aberdeen found this out ourselves a few years later. (WTAF was Deek thinking even giving him a short term contract?)

 

Now the young 14 y/o loon Dembele is playing the same game with Scotland and England. I actually hope he turns out to be as pants as Driver did. Loads of countries are giving African born players caps......Germany, France and Italy to name a few but it is a step too far as far as I'm concerned.

[dons8321]

If you've shagged a woman from that country, does that count?

 

would ANYONE trust FIFA to make up a decent set of rules?

 

Nah, I'm sticking to the place of your birth, but seeing myself in a minority am prepared to extend it to include your Fathers nationality.

 

 

Just a well as neither Cooper nor Simpson were born in Scotland!

[donsdaft]

I did mention Simpson a few posts ago.

 

Tattie’s real name is aloo isn’t it?

 

[BigAl]

Goalkeepers

Jordan Archer (Millwall)

Alan McGregor (Hull City)

Jon McLaughlin (Heart of Midlothian)

Defenders

Barry Douglas (Wolverhampton Wanderers)

Grant Hanley (Norwich City)

Russell Martin (Rangers)

Scott McKenna (Aberdeen)

Charlie Mulgrew (Blackburn Rovers)

Callum Paterson (Cardiff City)

Andy Robertson (Liverpool)

Kieran Tierney (Celtic)

Midfielders

Stuart Armstrong (Celtic)

Tom Cairney (Fulham)

James Forrest (Celtic)

Ryan Fraser (Aberdeen)

Kevin McDonald (Fulham)

Dylan McGeouch (Hibernian)

John McGinn (Hibernian)

Calum McGregor (Celtic)

Kenny McLean (Aberdeen)

Scott McTominay (Manchester United)

Jamie Murphy (Rangers)

Matt Ritchie (Newcastle United)

Forwards

Ryan Christie (Aberdeen)

Jason Cummings (Rangers)

Oliver McBurnie (Barnsley)

Matt Phillips (West Bromwich Albion)

 

 

So the new era begins and Mulgrew and Hanley remain part of it.

Overall though, can't really have too many complaints about the squad.

Good to see some new blood getting included.

Got to say we look a little bit weak in the goalkeeping department though.

See we've signed some boy called Ryan Fraser 

[Slim]

Hanley is playing regularly for Norwich these days so I guess his inclusion is fair enough.

[RicoS321]

That's an interesting squad like. The strikers are the main worry for me. Not much proven among that lot, but it'll be interesting to see Ryan Christie play as the main man.....

[Lencarl]

Makes me laugh seeing Ryan Christie and Kenny McLean named in the Scotland squad as Aberdeen players when they have around 10 games left in Aberdeen colours.

 

Scott McKenna will be the only Aberdeen player in the Scotland squad.

 

Normal service is renewed.