RicoS321 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 9 hours ago, OrlandoDon said: Would you take David Moyes?? One of the things I like (and still like) about Clarke, is that he has a lot of respect for, and understanding of, our league. I don't think Moyes has that at all. The reason he was doing punditry on our games is because he's a recognisable face for the English audience (see Souness, also). For all intents and purposes, he is a foreign manager, albeit one with a Scottish surface. I have no issues with us employing a foreign manager, so I'd slot Moyes into that category, but I think we could maybe do better if we're opening up the process to foreign managers. For me, someone like McInnes would be a much better choice (although perhaps a bit early in his career for him, personally?). That said, Clarke has earned the right to give qualifying for the next tournament a go, and if he really believes he can re-generate the squad and get us to the World Cup, then let him try it. I think he's shown a stubbornness that will affect his decision making in most regards so far, whilst paradoxically, over time, learning from mistakes on the park. I hope he considers his future without recourse to his stubbornness, and with a view to recognising the mistakes he has made over the last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Morning after stuff We got exactly what we deserved to be honest and that was SFA. What an awful tournament we had and I'm not laying the blame that we were missing a few players or the fact that we potentially MIGHT have had a penalty. Clarke far too loyal to certain players (Adams & McGregor immediately spring to mind. What was the point in taking the likes of McCrorie, Conway, Forrest, Shankland and literally giving them no playing time at all in the case of the first three and next to none for the last named. Time up for Mr Clarke and his miserable demeanour. My main feeling today is anger, and thats directed at myself, why oh why after all these years did I allow myself to be sucked into believing that things would be any different this time around. Lastly feel sorry for those that spend their hard earned cash following Scotland to ultimately be let down by a gutless, spineless, clueless bunch of supposed professional footballers and the overly loyal and equally clueless Clarke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicoS321 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 15 minutes ago, BigAl said: Morning after stuff We got exactly what we deserved to be honest and that was SFA. What an awful tournament we had and I'm not laying the blame that we were missing a few players or the fact that we potentially MIGHT have had a penalty. Clarke far too loyal to certain players (Adams & McGregor immediately spring to mind. What was the point in taking the likes of McCrorie, Conway, Forrest, Shankland and literally giving them no playing time at all in the case of the first three and next to none for the last named. Time up for Mr Clarke and his miserable demeanour. My main feeling today is anger, and thats directed at myself, why oh why after all these years did I allow myself to be sucked into believing that things would be any different this time around. Lastly feel sorry for those that spend their hard earned cash following Scotland to ultimately be let down by a gutless, spineless, clueless bunch of supposed professional footballers and the overly loyal and equally clueless Clarke That started off sounding like morning after stuff, but quickly descended into "not yet over it" territory! I think there were two forms of loyalty on show. One in the picking of the squad, and the second once they got there. We peaked a year too early, in qualifying, and Clarke just continued to play the same team. He has to start viewing the national team as a continual project in constant transition. Every few games, we need to be bringing in a few new faces, and always be on the look out for options in every position. Despite the goals in Oslo, it was clear that McLean and Armstrong (among others) were past their best before date, and needed to be transitioned out, but that never happened. Morgan could have been in several squads before now, for example, and I'm sure there are others of around that age. It seemed to be that because our first eleven were doing well - and I have no doubt that we'd have qualifyed with Dykes, Hickey and Ferguson - he let the wider squad ability slip. He'll now have to ditch them all at once for the next campaign. It's not great management, but again, it's not just a one man show. There have to be people in and around playing devil's advocate, asking him the difficult questions and helping him to question himself and justify his decisions. A bit like McInnes with us, it seems that we've just handed him the keys and fucked off. It's not a healthy situation, and will almost always lead to the eventual sacking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, RicoS321 said: That started off sounding like morning after stuff, but quickly descended into "not yet over it" territory! I think there were two forms of loyalty on show. One in the picking of the squad, and the second once they got there. We peaked a year too early, in qualifying, and Clarke just continued to play the same team. He has to start viewing the national team as a continual project in constant transition. Every few games, we need to be bringing in a few new faces, and always be on the look out for options in every position. Despite the goals in Oslo, it was clear that McLean and Armstrong (among others) were past their best before date, and needed to be transitioned out, but that never happened. Morgan could have been in several squads before now, for example, and I'm sure there are others of around that age. It seemed to be that because our first eleven were doing well - and I have no doubt that we'd have qualifyed with Dykes, Hickey and Ferguson - he let the wider squad ability slip. He'll now have to ditch them all at once for the next campaign. It's not great management, but again, it's not just a one man show. There have to be people in and around playing devil's advocate, asking him the difficult questions and helping him to question himself and justify his decisions. A bit like McInnes with us, it seems that we've just handed him the keys and fucked off. It's not a healthy situation, and will almost always lead to the eventual sacking. As ever my friend, an extremely well articulated post and far better than the way I put it. I think your comparison with the McInnes scenario is spot on. Once the cries of Clarke out gather pace, expect the same reaction as we kept getting told regarding Del "Be careful what you wish for" from those who want to show the same loyalty to Clarke that he does to his squad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoDon Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I’d say it’s a more accurate comparison looking at Scotland and last seasons dons. Comparing him to mcinnes, we aren’t there yet. Mcinnes was in decline for maybe 3 seasons before we punted him, I’d say for Clarke this is the first real time questions are being asked. I’d say Scotland have been in decline for maybe 12 months. clarke deserves to stay for now but we’ll learn a lot very quickly, two main things - does he stick with the 3 at the back that no longer works for us (like we say yesterday, we end up back 5 and don’t get numbers forward) is he overly loyal or will he bring in the new blood. you saw what happened when the dons finally changed it up, we changed formation, and surprise, it got better. Can Clarke and Scotland do the same? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoDon Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Got very little interest in the euros but watched the highlights of Croatia Italy, fun seeing two attacking teams. That’s Croatia on 2 points, certain we’d have advanced with a win yesterday and won’t be surprised if Hungary advance with 3 points. Gutted that we played more or less 5 at the back the entire tournament. Awful attacking play with horrible tactics. What a missed opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandoDon Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Four groups complete and only one third placed team with more than 3 points. Gutted, what a missed opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicoS321 Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 8 hours ago, OrlandoDon said: Four groups complete and only one third placed team with more than 3 points. Gutted, what a missed opportunity. We were always going through with four points. Slovenia have already qualified on three, having a better goal difference than Albania and with Croatia on two points. Last night's results means Croatia are out, and they finished on two points with a better goal difference than us, so that will be used to suggest that Clarke's Calderwoodesque finish to the match was justified, ignoring the previous thirty minutes where he refused to make a sub to attempt to win the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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