Scott Wright

[rocket_scientist]

He has played 90 minutes for Dundee 3 games in a row. He was never given 90 minutes on the pitch once in the SPFL this season from McInnes. This is the whole point, that we couldn't possibly know how good he might be unless he is managed correctly. Some people, particularly those who don't actually work with athletes don't understand the skills required to empower people to be the best they can be nor do they recognise key mental aspects such as confidence and belief that every top performing sportsperson needs.

 

I would suspect that Michael Stewart's opinion is going to be far more valuable than fans who have never played at a decent level nor ever managed men, let alone sportsmen.

[rocket_scientist]

I detest this "not big enough" attitude by dinosaur thinkers in football. Gordon Strachan wasn't a giant and Alexis Sanchez, possibly the most expensive footballer ever in the UK (in terms of wages) is the same height and 3 kg lighter than Wright. We either see his potential or we don't but at 22 this summer, he's one that should definitely have been managed better. Time will tell what he's made of.

[TheDeeDon]

The not big enough complaint is one of the reasons we will never progress much as a footballing nation.

 

Wright has 16 starts to his name at Aberdeen in 4 seasons, not enough time to tell whether he is good enough or not, but I suspect like most of our young lads they are possibly best off away from the clutches of DM and his Calderwood style youth policy.

[rocket_scientist]

I noticed Templeton scored at the weekend, another one we let go at 15/16 and we specifically said to him he wasn't big enough. I saw him come on as a sub for Stenny at Montrose aged 16 and he was electrifying. Think he developed a taste for partying not long after that, a very common Scottish affliction in footballers in particular.

[rocket_scientist]

The not big enough complaint is one of the reasons we will never progress much as a footballing nation.

 

Wright has 16 starts to his name at Aberdeen in 4 seasons, not enough time to tell whether he is good enough or not, but I suspect like most of our young lads they are possibly best off away from the clutches of DM and his Calderwood style youth policy.

 

I don't know how we can find out but it would be interesting to know how many of his 16 starts were league games and how many times he finished the game he started. I swear he's been subbed off the vast majority, certainly the very few SPFL games he's started.

 

What McInnes the brain surgeon doesn't understand is what failing to give a youngster CONSECUTIVE games says to him and also what subbing him off ALL the time does to his mindset.

[RicoS321]

The biggest issue for me is that we've lost a year in his development. This Dundee-type move should have happened last January. He needed game time then, and was very ripe for development. We were chasing second place, and it would have been difficult to justify him getting game time then. He's now a year further into his career and no further forward.

 

The second biggest issue in my opinion is that he gets played inconsistently. McInnes expects his front 3 to chop and change throughout the game. Moving from wing to wing and through the centre. Unfortunately, that doesn't usually work for players trying to find their feet (Mclennan, and I'd include Stewart in that too). Before they left, Hayes and McGinn had that switching to a tee and they were much better players for it. Earlier this season you could see it in GMS and it's safe to say that May loses very little from his game by being switched from left to right and then centre! However, you have to be given time to develop that confidence within games. That means 45-60 minutes in the same position running at the same man using the same foot to cross at pace, developing that role game at a time. Wright, especially, has never had that opportunity as he's constantly switched from centre to left to right. He visibly struggles with it as he'll have a nice few touches in a game before moving to another position - it's like he has to start again each time. In Stewart's case, Clarke keeps things very simple at Killie giving each player a small number of instructions that play to their strengths within games. I think Stewart has been better since returning, but I think he'd benefit from playing a single role (through the centre for me) throughout a game. He played plenty of minutes centrally against St Mirren, but crucially not the whole game, and too often he was too far away from Cosgrove as he didn't have his positioning nailed down. Similarly when asked to play wide he would regularly forget to stretch the game by dropping inside. It seems that McInnes expects a complete game from his players when none of them are ready for it. It was no coincidence that McGinn had his best spell for a good while when played for an entire half out wide with a clear instruction to provide width and balls into the box. It's weird like, we'd never ask a defender (injuries aside) to come in and learn their role in our team by switching from left to right throughout the game. I don't know why we expect it from day one from our wide players.

[rocket_scientist]

The biggest issue for me is that we've lost a year in his development. This Dundee-type move should have happened last January. He needed game time then, and was very ripe for development. We were chasing second place, and it would have been difficult to justify him getting game time then. He's now a year further into his career and no further forward.

 

The second biggest issue in my opinion is that he gets played inconsistently.

 

Your second issue was an interesting read and I never thought about how his deployment in totally different positions would have been a major factor, another piece of material evidence in the indictment of McInnes. You are totally correct, although the sheer infrequency of his minutes on the pitch v. seasons been here is the most damning in my opinion.

 

On your first issue, I don't think he's lost just ONE year in his development. It's considerably more than that. He's 22 in 6 months time and I think we have lost almost ALL of the last few years. He's been at the club since Under 11 days.

 

I also don't agree that it would've been "difficult to justify him getting game time" if the players who were getting played in his stead were consistently producing, which they weren't. The standard of opposition we faced was horseshit last year, excepting the runaway champions and a well-managed Wright should have been more than capable of doing better at age 20 than the journeymen plodders we had to endure at Pittodrie, had he been properly developed from the very start. We just don't know what he might have been capable of by now because he's never had the chance and I suspect, has never had any quality in his coaching and mentorship.

 

Very interesting discussion on talksport this morning. The Ole Gunnar interview of him backing Sanchez and likening him to a bottle of ketchup was the trigger but an ex-Liverpool player - I wasn't in the car long enough to get his name but it sounded like Danny Murphy - spoke great sense about management and gave some superb examples from his days, including how one former manager was very good at sticking with you even after one bad game and would controversially engage squad rotation and drop a player for one game after he had played exceptionally well (which I couldn't even imagine being a thing). He also said that Stevie G got hooked at HT (away to Basle if I heard right) and didn't get picked for the next two games. The point he was making was that nobody was exempt, everybody had to be on their toes and even their best player wasn't too big to be dropped. Their talk about belief (in the player from the manager) and consistency (in playing them and in how the manager communicates with them) were subjects that would be alien to most managers and sadly, that would include every manager that Milne has ever recruited for AFC.

[TheDeeDon]

I don't know how we can find out but it would be interesting to know how many of his 16 starts were league games and how many times he finished the game he started. I swear he's been subbed off the vast majority, certainly the very few SPFL games he's started.

 

What McInnes the brain surgeon doesn't understand is what failing to give a youngster CONSECUTIVE games says to him and also what subbing him off ALL the time does to his mindset.

 

12 league starts, 4 this season and 6 last season and one start each the previous 2 seasons.

 

He has also had 3 league cup and 1 Scottish cup starts and has also made a further 36 appearances from the bench in all competitions.

 

How anyone can say he is going to be good enough with that type of record is beyond me, not saying he would be good enough, but I see something in him, not saying he is the next Messi or anything, but he is a very clever player who would benefit greatly from a good run of games in a position which suits him, for me I would give him a free role playing off the striker.

 

 

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Great detective work TDD but where can I look to see how often he's been subbed off?

 

I also see something good in him and hope that spark is still there, which it looks like it is.

[RicoS321]

Great detective work TDD but where can I look to see how often he's been subbed off?

 

I also see something good in him and hope that spark is still there, which it looks like it is.

 

As far as I'm aware, he's not completed 90 minutes in the last couple of seasons (if at all).*

 

I also don't agree that it would've been "difficult to justify him getting game time" if the players who were getting played in his stead were consistently producing, which they weren't. The standard of opposition we faced was horseshit last year, excepting the runaway champions and a well-managed Wright should have been more than capable of doing better at age 20 than the journeymen plodders we had to endure at Pittodrie, had he been properly developed from the very start

 

Aye, fair enough, although we finished second which was a decent achievement. Regardless of whether you or I think that Wright should have been getting games, the manager clearly knew in January that his chances would be limited and it was irresponsible of him not to send him out on loan. He got 20 minutes of football after the January window. It was a ridiculously bad piece of management (from the outside, looking in - he may have been being a complete dick behind the scenes).

 

*Edit: he played 90 minutes in the Hamilton opener at the beginning of last season and the Partick (hat-trick) game the previous season.

[TheDeeDon]

Great detective work TDD but where can I look to see how often he's been subbed off?

 

I also see something good in him and hope that spark is still there, which it looks like it is.

 

Try this link to the AFC website, hopefully it will open up at Scott Wright for you.just change the year and you can read his stats.  https://www.afc.co.uk/player/scott-wright/

 

 

[ayrshire_don74]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scott-wright/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/276914/plus/1?saison=&verein=370&liga=&wettbewerb=SC1&pos=&trainer_id=

 

38 appearances was sub in 26 of them , so 12 starts ?  subbed in 9 of those ? not sure i am reading that correctly

[RicoS321]

38 appearances was sub in 26 of them , so 12 starts ?  subbed in 9 of those ? not sure i am reading that correctly

 

Yep, that's it. I missed the full 90 minutes he got v Ross County in the season 15/16. So he's had 3 full 90 minutes and two of those were on the final games of the season (both meaningless - notably he didn't start v Celtic in the meaningful last game of last season).

 

It's a good overview min, cheers. What stands out for me is the 54 unused sub spots he's filled in the league (70 odd in all tournaments). That must put you in a certain mindset. It also strikes me as a more systemic issue that I've highlighted before. We should really be putting targets on McInnes to play youngsters in X number of games. Come January, if a youngster is unlikely to fill their quota then McInnes has to either strive to meet that target or send them out on loan. At no point should Wright have been playing 27 minutes of fitba between last January and May.

 

It's easy to criticise McInnes for this, but it has to be a club responsibility. McInnes' job and career depends on winning games, so if he feels he can definitely win games without the "risk" of playing youngsters then he'll take that option. Youth team minutes/games stats and targets from above down would highlight a club strategy/approach that would also give McInnes a bit of leeway(excuse) if those youngsters are not up to it.

[ayrshire_don74]

the squad inclusion and overall lack of minutes not endemic of Mcinnes mindset ( could be anecdotal) but he appears not to put all subs on until till later on in games if at all... could be a correlation there who knows. Listened to sportsound at weekend and interesting discussion on Motherwell and that there is a clear and visible 'pathway' for youngsters... can we say the same ?

[RicoS321]

the squad inclusion and overall lack of minutes not endemic of Mcinnes mindset ( could be anecdotal) but he appears not to put all subs on until till later on in games if at all... could be a correlation there who knows.

 

Aye, totally. He seemed to have full confidence in his starting eleven no matter how shite they're playing up until the 65th minute. Although there have been a number of half time subs this season, which shows a nudge in the right direction (or individuals are just playing even shiter). It also takes him at least 5 minutes to get a sub from finishing the warm up onto the pitch. In my opinion, the lack of quick change was partly responsible for the second St Mirren goal at the weekend. Managers seem not to notice that subs can sometimes just break up the game for a little bit and often take a sub on directly after a goal rather than pre-empting it (Wilson on Saturday).

 

Listened to sportsound at weekend and interesting discussion on Motherwell and that there is a clear and visible 'pathway' for youngsters... can we say the same ?

 

We certainly don't. Not a visible one anyway. McKenna is still being held up as the example of youth doing well in our team, but there has been nobody following him and nobody preceding him either (under McInnes). We've narrowed our squad nicely since January too, so there should be the opportunity for more game time. We're still making the squad-pandering subs that keep likes of Ball and Gleeson happy in games where there is no danger in bringing on a youngster.

[TheDeeDon]

For me having a manager at the helm for 6 years means we should be in a position to promote youth from within, if they are not good enough then fine, but I don't think we have ever seen enough of our kids over the years to see if they can make it or not.  The even bigger puzzle for me is how he will give chances to kids from other teams over ones we have taken through ourselves.

 

We as a club need to be producing our own players to benefit us both on the pitch and by generating additional revenue through bringing in transfer fees, or even being good enough to win titles and cups on a regular basis.

 

Writing them off after a few appearances doesn't sit well with me.

 

 

[RicoS321]

Writing them off after a few appearances doesn't sit well with me.

 

I actually wouldn't mind that. For example, I don't think Ross will be good enough, nor Rogers. I think that we have to be able to write off players - and even get that wrong - quite quickly. To me, there's a responsibility to the youngster too and that can sometimes mean telling them to keep trying elsewhere/go down a level or whatever. We seem to want to have it both ways though, by keeping them on longish contracts and then spend 54 games as an unused sub.

 

I actually think that the way we treat our "failed" youngsters is vital to the success of our succesful youngsters too. If we're getting rid of a young player, we need to do all we can to find them another club and help them in their future career. We don't want to be in the position that we were a few years back where we appeared to just drop players (a lot of players) on a whim. If a player - like Ryan Fraser for example - sees his teammates treated as cash-cows then he's not going to give a shite about signing a new contract to ensure that the club gets some dosh for him. We need to foster an attitude that says that yer kid will be well treated at our club (we've already got an advantage over Celtic in this regard...) regardless of success.

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

It's maybe an attitude thing with Wright.  Let's hope this loan move gives him a kick up the arse that his career needs so that when he returns, he can push to get into the first team on a regular basis - it worked out well for McKenna after he returned.

 

The lack of desire to work hard in the younger generation worries me a lot.  Too much too young is a phrase banded about more and more and I think it applies a lot to these young players.

 

Maybe being sent out on loan and the realisation that the time they have left to make it at the top level is slipping away may just be the jolt that some of them need.

 

 

[TheDeeDon]

It's maybe an attitude thing with Wright.  Let's hope this loan move gives him a kick up the arse that his career needs so that when he returns, he can push to get into the first team on a regular basis - it worked out well for McKenna after he returned.

 

The lack of desire to work hard in the younger generation worries me a lot.  Too much too young is a phrase banded about more and more and I think it applies a lot to these young players.

 

Maybe being sent out on loan and the realisation that the time they have left to make it at the top level is slipping away may just be the jolt that some of them need.

 

Same thing happened with MacGuire and Pawlett also when they went out on loan and came back better players, so fingers crossed it happens with Wright, up to him I suppose.

[ayrshire_don74]

can we send GMS out on loan...

[RicoS321]

The lack of desire to work hard in the younger generation worries me a lot.  Too much too young is a phrase banded about more and more and I think it applies a lot to these young players.

 

It's also a heap of nonsense. Some people don't work hard. That's always been the case. If Ian Robertson had just worked a bit harder he could have been a better left back. If Dennis Law had pushed himself just that little bit further he could have ended up at the dons. In reality, there are very few people of any generation who actually reach their potential in life. There are numerous examples (McKenna, Fraser, Jack, Shinnie etc) of young lads who work very hard and make the grade so the generic "lack of desire to work hard in the younger generation" doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. Look at the young kids striking over climate change because their parents and parents' parents fucked up everything for them. It's just lazy, ageist stereotyping.

[Ten Caat]

I have no problem with writing a youngster off fairly early either. When Rodgers went to Smurn at the start of the season to get games but found he couldn't displace an ageing journeyman keeper who has since retired to become a goalkeeping coach....kinda said it all really. He will never be our number 1 and in all likelihood won't get any further contract extensions.

 

I've never really rated Wright. An opinion that many find annoying but I'm not going to change it. I think because he is a local loon than folk are desperate for him to do well. The hat trick against Thistle early in his career perhaps gave them hope that he might be the next big thing.

 

However my, nor their opinions count for anything. Only ones who count for anything are DM, Doc and the coaching staff. Any complaints that he has had very little playing time may be relevant but the question has to be asked.....what has he done in training/ reserve matches to warrant an extended run of games? If he had been shining brightly I don't think our squad is either big enough or talented enough to ignore anyone. May and Ball especially get a hard time of it from the fans whenever they get selected.....both are limited in ability but are hard workers if nothing else. I have  to conclude that the management team cannot be greatly impressed by that of Wright given the very limited time he has accrued in first team action over the past 3 seasons. Injuries and suspensions conspired to get him into the side early-ish this season. Looked sensational in the St Mirren LC game but unfortunately picked up a niggle that kept him out a couple of weeks. Still got game time on his recovery but just looked ordinary at best and in a couple of games rank fucking rotten.

 

I think if he is to have a future in the game it will be as a number 10. McGinns return last season should have heralded a loan move immediately as it was obvious his game time would be severely impacted by the signing of such a senior pro. Going to Dundee a year later will do him the world of good as there he will be seen as an automatic first choice. Seems to have started well and I hope he keeps it up, he will return to us in the summer with 2 years left on his contract and hopefully with something to prove. But as I've said....I just have the feeling he isn't quite of the standard required for our club and wouldn't surprise me at all to find him this time next year allowed to leave for a relatively small fee to a Championship side or perhaps a promoted club where I think his level really lies.

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

It's also a heap of nonsense. Some people don't work hard. That's always been the case. If Ian Robertson had just worked a bit harder he could have been a better left back. If Dennis Law had pushed himself just that little bit further he could have ended up at the dons. In reality, there are very few people of any generation who actually reach their potential in life. There are numerous examples (McKenna, Fraser, Jack, Shinnie etc) of young lads who work very hard and make the grade so the generic "lack of desire to work hard in the younger generation" doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. Look at the young kids striking over climate change because their parents and parents' parents fucked up everything for them. It's just lazy, ageist stereotyping.

 

Just don't agree with that Rico.  We have turned into a country scared to roll up our sleeves and as a result the youngsters have been brought up with that attitude.  Everything is must-have-it-now with no desire to work for it.  I see very few young people willing to start at the bottom and work their way up.  No one wants a used car, everyone wants a brand new house, we have eastern europeans doing all the jobs that require a bit of effort.

 

 

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

I totally agree with you kitns. We have seen a massive difference between our first born in 91 and our 4th in 2001. I'm not talking about two kids as individuals of course but in this 10 year span, looking at their peers and friends etc., it's not just attitude and work ethic that has regressed, it's aptitude and basic education standards. Teachers are saying this too.

[tlg1903]

promoting youth from the ranks has never been something dm has been prolific with but I think McKenna has perhaps given him a wee bit more confidence.  McLennan and Campbell are both getting good opportunity this season and Anderson must be in his thoughts for next season.  Re Wright.  The past is the past but all that really matters at the moment is that Scott Wright is doing very well at Dundee which is what we should be wanting to happen.  He plays a blinder for the rest of the season he comes back to us buzzing and hungry to make his mark.  I agree this move should have been done last season but such is life.    I think Macinnes is capable of developing youth quite well 2bf, Cosgrove would be a good case in point and both Maclean and Christie left better players than when they arrived.  His biggest black mark is shankland though,  everytime i saw him in red he looked overweight compared to what he looks like now.  If you're genuinely trying to give a kid the best shot you can you should at least be making sure they are fully fit.