DantheDon Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 To be fair on Mcinnes, its surely Shanklands job to keep himself in shape. I dont think he got enough opportunitys for us but I also think us letting him go has spurred his career on. I think sometimes its when youngsters are realeased that they realise its make or break time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeeDon Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 promoting youth from the ranks has never been something dm has been prolific with but I think McKenna has perhaps given him a wee bit more confidence. McLennan and Campbell are both getting good opportunity this season and Anderson must be in his thoughts for next season. Re Wright. The past is the past but all that really matters at the moment is that Scott Wright is doing very well at Dundee which is what we should be wanting to happen. He plays a blinder for the rest of the season he comes back to us buzzing and hungry to make his mark. I agree this move should have been done last season but such is life. I think Macinnes is capable of developing youth quite well 2bf, Cosgrove would be a good case in point and both Maclean and Christie left better players than when they arrived. His biggest black mark is shankland though, everytime i saw him in red he looked overweight compared to what he looks like now. If you're genuinely trying to give a kid the best shot you can you should at least be making sure they are fully fit. I cannot agree with you with McLean, I honestly thought he went backwards whilst with us, his last few months with us were his best, before that he was worse than a man short a lot of the times. I think it was the constant backing from Donsdaft that kept him in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elgindon Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 My tuppence worth, I think a player like Wright needs to be playing in a side playing quicker tempo fitba and sees a lot of the ball,eg where he doesnt get time to doubt. His head seems to go down too quickly when things dinna come off,so possibly also an attitude or self discipline problem,...which could be man managed.McInnes provides a great work environment but not so strong in the man management side IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A96red Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I cannot agree with you with McLean, I honestly thought he went backwards whilst with us, his last few months with us were his best, before that he was worse than a man short a lot of the times. I think it was the constant backing from Donsdaft that kept him in the team. Opinions and arseholes spring to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 My memory of McLean was that he started off very promising but then got very lazy and was a waste of time for well over a year. Then, in his last season he started showing some good passing ability and coincidentally, this was when he was coming to the end of his contract. After Norwich got him on a pe-contract, he played his best football and therefore he was allowed to be lazy under McInnes and he cheated us fans for the majority of his games for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeeDon Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Opinions and arseholes spring to mind Aye, indeed. I did like McLean as a player, but I don't think we got the best out of him until his last few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 After Norwich got him on a pe-contract, he played his best football and therefore he was allowed to be lazy under McInnes and he cheated us fans for the majority of his games for us. I think this was a massive issue of mine. He clearly knew that on paper, he was one of the best footballers at the club, but McInnes barely ever dropped him (can remember one or two occasions?) which allowed him to be lazy. 75% lands at DM's door. I think DM has handled Wright horrifically. I'm not sure if i'm 100% sold on him, but he was shifted all over the shop. He's clearly a confidence player and DM hasn't allowed him to ever build it up. As Rico said, this Dundee move should have happened 12 months ago. Poor vision from DM. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A96red Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 My memory of McLean was that he started off very promising but then got very lazy and was a waste of time for well over a year. Then, in his last season he started showing some good passing ability and coincidentally, this was when he was coming to the end of his contract. After Norwich got him on a pe-contract, he played his best football and therefore he was allowed to be lazy under McInnes and he cheated us fans for the majority of his games for us. Speaking of opinions and arseholes ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicoS321 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I think this was a massive issue of mine. He clearly knew that on paper, he was one of the best footballers at the club, but McInnes barely ever dropped him (can remember one or two occasions?) which allowed him to be lazy. 75% lands at DM's door. I don't think McLean was ever "lazy" in the traditional sense in his time at AFC. I am 100% certain that his stats (ground covered, touches etc) would back that up. I'm also 100% centre that if the stats didn't back that up he wouldn't have been playing - it's very obviously something that McInnes puts a lot of faith in. He was off-form for a good portion of two of his seasons. He was often a fanny* in the tackle. His passing was shite, and he wasn't making the telling passes that he was completely capable of, choosing to make the easy pass instead (I think that would be classed as lazy). He never stopped showing for the ball. The positions in which he showed for the ball were often the easy positions to show for the ball (see Gleeson and a good period of Jack's career). I totally agree that it stemmed from not being dropped, and I believe/think/guess that was because McInnes put faith in the statistics that he was seeing from McLean. Perhaps, pragmatism kicks in for a manager, and if there were no alternatives in our squad then you maybe accept that a guy putting in a shift is sometimes enough. McLean played within himself as a result. He had a lot of very good games which he didn't get credit for too, because fans too a disliking to him (because he never got dropped). He was excellent when he came back in and for Maddison for the remainder of that season, but that didn't get the credit it deserved. In his last season, he was also good for a large portion of the beginning of the season before his announcement regarding the Norwich move. *I'm not sure if fanny is the right term, as he was perfectly capable of tackling. He would often go in with the wrong body shape and the wrong foot making him weak as fuck. McGinn is a good example of a fanny in the tackle and McLean was nowhere near that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 It's semantics to labour over interpretations about his weaknesses. For me you nailed it when you said he shirked tackles, made easier passes and played within himself. That's what he did and that's why I called him lazy. I don't give a fuck about his Optima stats, he wasn't taking risks, he wasn't helping the cause as much as he could have and he was anxious not to make big mistakes. This is incredibly frustrating to witness, a player stuck in the second gear of his capabilities, never striving to succeed. As TS Eliot said, only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I think this was a massive issue of mine. He clearly knew that on paper, he was one of the best footballers at the club, but McInnes barely ever dropped him (can remember one or two occasions?) which allowed him to be lazy. 75% lands at DM's door. I think DM has handled Wright horrifically. I'm not sure if i'm 100% sold on him, but he was shifted all over the shop. He's clearly a confidence player and DM hasn't allowed him to ever build it up. As Rico said, this Dundee move should have happened 12 months ago. Poor vision from DM. Again. I have never played the game to any decent level and I am sure most of the posters on here are the same. It always make me wonder what sort of an effect getting dropped must have on a players confidence. It seems to be the easy option looking at it from a fans perspective but what effect does it have on the manager/player relationship in the longer term? I look at it from the point of view of someone working in another industry..the boss says to you that you did not do a very good job of the last project so someone else is going to take charge of the next one instead - it is bound to rock the boat in certain situations. There's got to be a certain element of loyalty in management, you cannot expect players to run through a brick wall for you then kick them out of the team after a few under par performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrshire_don74 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 i played ayrshire amateur and junior so not pro but a reasonable level... being dropped can have a number of effects depends on reasons why and man management, if i was dropped it usually made me more determined to play better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 McInnes is clever in a street smart sort of way. By showing loyalty to his senior players, he garners their continuous support but the cost is playing and developing young talents and success. But where his goal is a wage and he knows the chairman doesn't expect him to do the unexpected (and win the league), he takes the easy option. There have always been ever-presents in his time at AFC, those players who were "too good to be dropped" but they were screaming to be dropped at many times due to extended runs of bad form. It's only now that McGinn and May are seeing some bench time but Lewis Ferguson and Shinnie have been allowed to keep playing through poor sequences exactly like McLean was allowed to do. Edit: Ryhun never got dropped either but there were times he could've been. By doing so, not only would it have told him he needed to be better it's telling the whole squad that nobody's invincible and gives others chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 i played ayrshire amateur and junior so not pro but a reasonable level... being dropped can have a number of effects depends on reasons why and man management, if i was dropped it usually made me more determined to play better It's certainly a fine line Ayrshire and I would guess very dependent upon the character of the player you are dealing with. If you take someone like Mesut Ozil, he's been dropped out of the Arsenal team but has the manager really gained anything from doing it? The team is playing poorly, the fans are questioning why their most creative player is not in the team and in the meantime their most valuable asset is falling in value. Difficult to compare Kenny McLean with Mesut Ozil, I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 I see Wright was credited with assists for both Dundee goals last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyFuckinPowers Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 He was indeed Rocket, and apparently their 2nd was a great bit of play involving 1-2's etc...and Wright was at the heart of it. He is certainly enjoying himself there, scoring a few and creating a few, BBC Sport said he was up front with Craig Curran, or paying off Curran, in any case, they said he was central and not out wide, I am happy for him and I hope he comes back a better, more confident player that can contribute on a consistent basis for Aberdeen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 That's the point of loans and i'm glad to see he's grabbing his chance! I'd rather he comes back and contributes than goes off into the wilderness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 The point of loans is to give experience to young footballers who aren't yet good enough to get a game for us. I don't see footballers at Pittodrie that are so much better than Wright to excuse the fact he's played so little for us. He's also not a youngster, turning 22 this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrant Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 It's certainly a fine line Ayrshire and I would guess very dependent upon the character of the player you are dealing with. If you take someone like Mesut Ozil, he's been dropped out of the Arsenal team but has the manager really gained anything from doing it? The team is playing poorly, the fans are questioning why their most creative player is not in the team and in the meantime their most valuable asset is falling in value. Difficult to compare Kenny McLean with Mesut Ozil, I know Ozil creative? That's news to me. He's poop and has been poop for approximately 99% of his games for Arsenal and I'm nae surprised that he's been benched. I'm surprised it took this long. If their fans are questioning it then they're nae watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc_don Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 He's also not a youngster, turning 22 this summer. True, which is why it's so important for him to get a run of games. He's never had that, which is down to the mismanagement. A dee I know said he was MOTM last week. Will do his confidence no end of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Caat Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Unfortunately for him, he can no longer be viewed as an up and coming player. So to justify a run of games, he has to perform well above average in every one to keep him ahead of the more established player (s) he is replacing. He did well in the league cup against St Mirren but picked up a niggle that ruled him out a couple of weeks. Nevertheless he still got game time once he was fit again. And looked utterly underwhelming. There is talk ( obviously unsubstantiated) that DM wanted him to go out on loan at the start of the season as we could not guarantee him playing time without a substantial injury/suspension list and that the player himself had turned this down. Whatever the circumstances, he has now taken the option and looks to have started well. But he's now a bigger fish in a smaller pond....and against Hivs who could never be described as a defensive minded side it wouldn't be too hard to look good, even in a losing side ( personally I thought that he did nothing of note other than the. 2 assists and should have been red carded late on.....wouldn't surprise me to see retrospective action still being taken). As a local loon I think people are desperate for him to do well. He will return to us in summer all the better for his loan, but he has to kick on immediately and cement a regular starting slot....he will be 22 by then....or else I can see him being allowed to leave for a smallish fee, possibly even free, next January. Will he make it with us? My instincts say no sadly, but I'd love him to prove me wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket_scientist Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 TC you keep on repeating yourself. You admitted less than a year ago that he'd not been given enough game time and you have always suspected he's not good enough. Nothing has changed. He's still not had enough starts to justify any of us having a strong opinion one way or the other. You fail to appreciate the failure of management and how subs appearances doesn't give the same confidence as a proper run in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Caat Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Perhaps I do. Here is what I envisage though. He is already behind McGinn for a starting place. If we sign Stewart permanently, he becomes at best 3rd choice for a starting role. So will be allowed to leave. If we don't sign Stewart, he has a chance to usurp a slowing, ageing McGinn but will have 6 months to do so otherwise we will sign somebody who will again push him down the pecking order ( and probably out the door). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicoS321 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Really was bad planning letting Wright go on loan. I disagree. Wright is of the age that he either needs to do something or get shipped. Another 6 months sitting on our bench with the occasional appearance here and there would have done him no good. It might have been useful for us in the short term, but we've got to put the development of our youth first and if that means we lose out on a player for the few games he might have been useful in then so be it. A good run of games at Dundee - if he gets them - is far more than we could have offered him. After 3 months rusting on the bench since January too, we'd probably end up with a worse player out wide than Stewart who he'd be brought in to replace. To me, it wasn't bad planning, it was just a choice that had to be made. I think McInnes took that short term approach with Wright a year ago and it totally backfired then, so he had to make up for it this time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrshire_don74 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 it was bad planning in that he hasnt a clue how to deploy stewart plus also letting Frank Ross go (another winger ?) the decision in isolation makese sense as you say but overall poor decision making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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