What is success?

[Ernie]

I really admire sportsmen/women like Roy Keane (Willie Miller springs to mind), it's a fine attitude that works for them and is sadly missing from a others.  They are going to win every time they go out there and that's a given.  What I admire even more is his/their capacity to believe fully in that in the next game even after they've lost.  Keane is not a stupid man, he knows it's a mantra, a mindset.  I like it, I believe it works but it is not really helpful in defining or measuring what success is, it's more a means to an end?

[BobbyBiscuit]

Of course, you're both right in what you say.

 

However, a few years ago we were playing at Dundee in the lunch time kick off. If we won we really put pressure on Celtic who were kicking off later that day (or on the Sunday).

 

Rooney had put us ahead in the first half but we lost a daft goal (think Jack may have back heeled the ball to Dundee as it was running out for a throw) early in the second. With half an hour to play you would never have guessed we were a team in with a chance - albeit slight - of winning the league.  We played with no tempo, little purpose. We were screaming out for a change of personnel. Robson got stripped, then was told to sit down. If we made a change that day it was with only a couple of minutes to go.

 

That, more than words, told us of McInnes's mindset.  He didn't believe we could win the league.

[Sand dan Glokta]

Of course, you're both right in what you say.

 

However, a few years ago we were playing at Dundee in the lunch time kick off. If we won we really put pressure on Celtic who were kicking off later that day (or on the Sunday).

 

Rooney had put us ahead in the first half but we lost a daft goal (think Jack may have back heeled the ball to Dundee as it was running out for a throw) early in the second. With half an hour to play you would never have guessed we were a team in with a chance - albeit slight - of winning the league.  We played with no tempo, little purpose. We were screaming out for a change of personnel. Robson got stripped, then was told to sit down. If we made a change that day it was with only a couple of minutes to go.

 

That, more than words, told us of McInnes's mindset.  He didn't believe we could win the league.

 

I have to agree with this.

 

I looked back over the 15/16 league campaign recently and I was shocked at how close that race was for so long. I always thought the 2 games at Christmas killed us with draws, which they did to an extent; but the race was still on well into the middle of March when we lost 2-1 to Motherwell. That game put us 4pts behind with Celtic having a game in hand (they scraped a 1-0 win over Killie with a last minute goal from the thumb the day before).

 

This game was prior to the Caley game we lost 3-1 after taking the lead, then Taylor stood on the ball and Draper dived to win a penalty – where again I had thought our challenge ended. 

 

The worst part for me out of all this, was in that game vs Motherwell, Robson came on and was sent off within minutes. It was then voted the ‘funniest moment of the year’ at the player of the year awards. That’s right, the moment the title race imploded and was effectively over was the funniest.

 

 

 

[Barcosente]

Succeeding in football is winning.

There are 12 teams in our league at the start of the season.

11 of those will fail = no success.

 

Success of course is relative to some of those clubs with the goal being simply to stay in the league.

As it stands, none of the 11 below first spot, can compete financially with Celtic, but that doesn't mean that clubs shouldn't aspire or believe they can win it.

 

2-3 seasons back, Aberdeen had a chance to take Celtic, but a combination of lack of ambition of the board to back the manager properly in the winter transfer window while the odds were good, and the managers sometimes over cautious approach blew that.

Some viewed second spot as success.

I viewed it as failure.

 

At the moment, our club is failing because we are 8 points behind in the league.

Success, partially at least would be winning the cup.

Not winning the league or the cup this season is failure.

It's as black and white as that.

 

[Kowalski]

Giving the state of Scottish football we should be looking for cup finals every 2 years & finishing no lower than 3rd in the league.

 

(I lived through the “glory years” btw)

[LA-Don]

Of course we all want to win the league and cups every year but I guess I have some soft of realism.......in my eyes. If all was equal then this is fair, but it's not. Do we expect small companies to bring in the same profit as Apple?

 

When two other clubs have budgets and resources way above ours is it right to expect more than them? As a fan of course I want it but, as I said earlier, and Kow too, top 3 is a success with our budget and resources, a couple final every other year, and a trophy every two to three.

 

I don't think this makes me a loser or have a loser mentality, I think I'm being realistic given the state of Scottish football. Does every club in the EPL expect to win the league? No. Many believe a successful season is saying in the league and not getting relegated. Does this make them all losers?

 

I think a challenging debate is to discuss the difference between success and expectation.