Scottish Cup Semi-Final

[BobbyBiscuit]

The fact I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm missing the point. Logan has been poor all season - dropping him from the league matches should have happened whether he was suspended for yesterday or not. Ball was always going to be rb yesterday because there is pretty much no other option. Given how crap Logan has been would it really have made much difference to our performances in the league to at least give the guy some chance to get match sharp given how little he's played?

[RicoS321]

The fact I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm missing the point. Logan has been poor all season - dropping him from the league matches should have happened whether he was suspended for yesterday or not. Ball was always going to be rb yesterday because there is pretty much no other option. Given how crap Logan has been would it really have made much difference to our performances in the league to at least give the guy some chance to get match sharp given how little he's played?

 

Fair doos, my apologies. Yes, I think it would have made a difference. Or, I think it would have had a far greater chance of a negative effect on our league games than it would have had positive affect on the semi. Weighing up the risk, I don't think the extra benefit gained from giving Ball a run out at right back in our league games would have been worth it. It would have been the same if both Rooney and May were out for yesterday. I wouldn't have used that as a reason to play Maynard at any point ever. Ball at right back = Maynard up front (in terms of ability). I think that yesterday we just had to throw him in and hope that he wouldn't do too much wrong and the other players could cope. Having said that, I think that our biggest issue was the changing of the system when we were already struggling with the personnel. I think that if we'd stuck to our more normal 4-2-3-1 we would have stood a far better chance. I think our personnel issues were further compounded by a terrible set of tactics. I was disgusted when I saw Rooney and May on that pitch at the start.

[rocket_scientist]

I think he tried a 4-2-3-1, with Rooney and May interchanging between the forward 3 and the 1.

 

The biggest problem for me yesterday wasn't the formation. It wasn't even the technical limitations of the players.

 

It was our lack of hunger, our lack of desire. They wanted it way more than we did.

 

This is a management failing. Ball fucking up was expected but Kari, an experienced international fucking up twice like that was unfathomable. What was he thinking? Was he not concentrating? What else was going on in his head?

 

Ryan Christie doesn't care. He doesn't want to be there. He's turning into Niall McGinn.

 

Chiedi can't play football. He's as bad a recruitment decision as Maynard. I could go on forever. No point. Our manager is a fucking arse.

[Ramperbamper]

Fair doos, my apologies. Yes, I think it would have made a difference. Or, I think it would have had a far greater chance of a negative effect on our league games than it would have had positive affect on the semi. Weighing up the risk, I don't think the extra benefit gained from giving Ball a run out at right back in our league games would have been worth it.

 

Agree with this - the three suspended players (including Shay) were all very good to excellent in the three games subsequent to the Killie win. I'm sure McInnes would have been equally slaughtered if he'd given clowns like Ball game time and dropped points as a result.

 

[donsdaft]

Ball should never be near an Aberdeen jersey.

 

He was so bad at Pitodrie recently I have no idea why he wasn't taken off in the first half.

 

He wasn't just bad, he looked scared and bewildered, like a small boy made to play in a full game when he's 5 and the other boys are 7 and 8.

 

As I said before, I thought he was going to start greetin.

 

He was like that again yesterday

[TheDeeDon]

I don't think I have ever seen a player as nervous on the pitch as Dom Ball looked yesterday and I didn't expect him to last the full first 45 minutes, let alone come back out for the 2nd half.

[Goldie03]

I don't think I have ever seen a player as nervous on the pitch as Dom Ball looked yesterday and I didn't expect him to last the full first 45 minutes, let alone come back out for the 2nd half.

 

Of course he was nervous, hadn't played for around 6 weeks then suddenly expected to slot into the defence in our biggest game of the season!! And he must know the fans have no time for him, he was always gonna get crucified. Rightly so after the first goal debacle.

 

Anyway imo it was criminal of McInnes not to try out players before the semi when he knew for 4 weeks that he had to come up with some way of compensating the guys that we're gonna be missing. We may as well have played with no right back!!

 

Our biggest game of the season and once again we leave Hampden raging at an absolutely dire performance.

 

McInnes now admitting we have no depth of squad ffs that's been obvious since August 

[RicoS321]

We may as well have played with no right back!!

 

In hindsight, that would have been the better option. A back three with McGinn or Christie as wing back. Given their two brutes up front, three at the back would have been a better shout. I'd rather have had a shite wing back than a shite right back in Ball.

 

Out of interest, which game would you have sacrificed in order to test out Ball?

[Goldie03]

Start with Dundee and keep going if it worked ha 

[Goldie03]

PS I wouldn't have necessarily tried out Ball tho

[Ramperbamper]

Ball got tried out at right back in the youth game at Dundee last week. Also played there at Parkhead earlier in the season.

 

Lack of minutes has nothing to do with not playing to the whistle FFS.

[RicoS321]

PS I wouldn't have necessarily tried out Ball tho

 

Chidi was unavailable through injury. Arnason got plenty of minutes in right centre half and O'Connor got a run in midfield for parts of a couple of games too (Hertz I think). Ball was the only one who would have benefited from a run out, but that had to be weighed up against the risk of him fucking up in one of those games too. So it was Ball or nothing really. Which is a horrible choice for anyone to have to make.

 

I suppose there is an argument to say that he could have tried out the system before Saturday, but he's played Rooney and May lots up front together. He's done it enough to know that it doesn't work and it should never be tried. Given the additions of pish like Ball and Chidi (and O'Connor in midfield who was fucking awful), it was definitely a step too far to try and shoehorn those two in at the same time. He should have been reducing the number of differences from our normal line up, not increasing. We played large parts of the first half with nobody on the left hand side of the pitch other than Considine. Christie and Stewart were clearly both told to run wherever the fuck they wanted. Due to the changes, it was a time for complete positional discipline, and we got the exact opposite.

[Ten Caat]

In hindsight, that would have been the better option. A back three with McGinn or Christie as wing back. Given their two brutes up front, three at the back would have been a better shout. I'd rather have had a shite wing back than a shite right back in Ball.

 

Out of interest, which game would you have sacrificed in order to test out Ball?

 

Logan obviously. He has been rank rotten all season. Ball is a defensive midfielder and in that position isnt nearly as bad as folk make out. However it has been revealed all too painfully that a full back he definitely is not. As has been said.....McInnes had 4 weeks to sort out something for this game knowing that Logan wasn't going to be playing. Ball should have played at least once, probably twice in that period to see if he was capable of doing so effectively. Logan would not have been missed, he has contributed the square root of fuck all all season and the rest may have done Logan some good and certainly concentrated his mind that he needs to buck up his ideas. Ball would have shown that he wasn't up to being a right back and DM could have made alternative plans for Saturday....going with a back 3 most likely and we may have found ourselves in a Cup Final.

 

That we aren't lies firmly and squarely on the shoulders of McInnes who did absolutely nothing

[Ramperbamper]

Logan obviously. He has been rank rotten all season. Ball is a defensive midfielder and in that position isnt nearly as bad as folk make out. However it has been revealed all too painfully that a full back he definitely is not. As has been said.....McInnes had 4 weeks to sort out something for this game knowing that Logan wasn't going to be playing. Ball should have played at least once, probably twice in that period to see if he was capable of doing so effectively. Logan would not have been missed, he has contributed the square root of fuck all all season and the rest may have done Logan some good and certainly concentrated his mind that he needs to buck up his ideas. Ball would have shown that he wasn't up to being a right back and DM could have made alternative plans for Saturday....going with a back 3 most likely and we may have found ourselves in a Cup Final.

 

That we aren't lies firmly and squarely on the shoulders of McInnes who did absolutely nothing

 

Logan played well in the three games following the QF win which resulted in three wins. Ball has played RB at Parkhead, and had another opportunity to play there in a youth game last week.

 

As I say, we'd have heard all about it from the same folk moaning now if Ball had fucked up and we'd dropped important league points on top of being out of the cup. The nature of football fans is that they aren't held accountable for their havering, the gaffer has to make a decision and put his neck on the line one way or the other.

 

If the blame lies with McInnes, it's not identifying a suitable backup/competition for Logan in the last window or two (which he effectively held his hands up to post match).

 

 

[Ten Caat]

I absolutely concur that McInnes is accountable for having no suitable back up for Logan at all for the past 3 seasons. Every other position has/had cover and it is bordering on the bizarre why this one position has been neglected so glaringly. Logan up till the end of last season had been fantastically consistent but this season has been fantastically consistently shyte. We were all amazed towards the end of last season that he signed the new deal as everyone expected him to be off back down south nearer his young kids....he hinted that was his intention.

 

I'm guessing we made him an offer any English club ( prob EFL1 level) just wasn't willing to come close to matching and he signed back on with us with the intention of making himself financially stable for the rest of his life. However, in my opinion, his constant shuttling back and forth to Manchester has taken its toll and he just isn't getting the rest he requires to recover after games....he isn't getting any younger.

 

I've said elsewhere, I hope McInnes (or whoever is in charge come summer) at least tries to buy Cadden off Motherwell in the summer. with a year left on his contract he would cost 250-300k max and would give us an extra option of playing at wing back as well as full back. Shay would then be the back up option for the last year of his contract.

[CvB]

 

Chiedi can't play football. He's as bad a recruitment decision as Maynard. I could go on forever. No point. Our manager is a fucking arse.

 

The one good thing about watching the boy Chidi is the knowledge that Man City clearly have a shite scouting system as well. That boy is no more a footballer than i am a fucking astronaut.

 

 

 

[Goldie03]

Logan played well in the three games following the QF win which resulted in three wins. Ball has played RB at Parkhead, and had another opportunity to play there in a youth game last week.

 

As I say, we'd have heard all about it from the same folk moaning now if Ball had fucked up and we'd dropped important league points on top of being out of the cup. The nature of football fans is that they aren't held accountable for their havering, the gaffer has to make a decision and put his neck on the line one way or the other.

 

If the blame lies with McInnes, it's not identifying a suitable backup/competition for Logan in the last window or two (which he effectively held his hands up to post match).

 

I'm sorry but for me this just isn't good enough, as stated before by numerous posters we all knew there was no back up, we would have been in the same predicament if Logan had got injured!

 

And I'm gonna put my tin hat on here cause I know that nobody will agree with me but I'm gutted that we lost the semi, I would take a cup final and potentially winning the scottish cup over a league placing any day - I really don't give a fuck about us going out of Europe in late July or early August then having a tired spell in September cause players are knackered

[manc_don]

I'm sorry but for me this just isn't good enough, as stated before by numerous posters we all knew there was no back up, we would have been in the same predicament if Logan had got injured!

 

And I'm gonna put my tin hat on here cause I know that nobody will agree with me but I'm gutted that we lost the semi, I would take a cup final and potentially winning the scottish cup over a league placing any day - I really don't give a fuck about us going out of Europe in late July or early August then having a tired spell in September cause players are knackered

 

No tin hat required. I absolutely agree. No one remembers who finishes below first. A cup is something real. Season is done. A shambles of one at that.

[Ramperbamper]

No tin hat required. I absolutely agree. No one remembers who finishes below first. A cup is something real. Season is done. A shambles of one at that.

 

Nonsense. Why even enter the league if the cups are the only thing worth concerning ourselves about?

 

I’d rather have won the cup over finishing 2nd but like it or not, there’s still something to play for especially as we’re by no means guaranteed Europe again. And let’s be honest, if we chuck the next 5 games it’ll be used as ammo.

[rocket_scientist]

This getting into Europe. For what? So the fans can get pissed in another country? And witness the inevitable humiliation and expulsion at the hands of some no marks? Who are a better team than us?

 

How typically Scottish. Let's celebrate incompetence. Let's go and get beat.

 

Whatever happened to stop and think? When was it that piss poor became tolerable? Where's the critical thinking to identify the reasons for our pisspoorness? And where's the will to change.

 

AFC has given us the club we deserve.

[manc_don]

Nonsense. Why even enter the league if the cups are the only thing worth concerning ourselves about?

 

I’d rather have won the cup over finishing 2nd but like it or not, there’s still something to play for especially as we’re by no means guaranteed Europe again. And let’s be honest, if we chuck the next 5 games it’ll be used as ammo.

 

I'd agree with you if we were challenging. But my stance is given we are not challenging for the league, therefore, I'd much rather win a trophy. Yes I hope we finish about the others, but currently, I have zero faith that we're going to do it. Our form is that bad.

[RicoS321]

This getting into Europe. For what? So the fans can get pissed in another country? And witness the inevitable humiliation and expulsion at the hands of some no marks? Who are a better team than us?

 

How typically Scottish. Let's celebrate incompetence. Let's go and get beat.

 

Whatever happened to stop and think? When was it that piss poor became tolerable? Where's the critical thinking to identify the reasons for our pisspoorness? And where's the will to change.

 

AFC has given us the club we deserve.

 

Year on year, we've probably made >£1M from our exploits in Europe (prize money plus a couple of close to full houses per season) and it's the only thing keeping us ahead of the pack right now in terms of revenue. This season, but for McInnes' (or perhaps AFCs) failings in the transfer market, it would have been significantly higher. So, yer right, there's definite culpability there, but missing out on Europe would make that failure even more significant.

 

All this misses the point though. Nobody that I can see on here is arguing that the league is more important than the cup. That's just a strawman argument that seems to have been built, probably over comments I made. People were suggesting that we should have "tried out" the semi team. We've narrowed that down to one player that hasn't been tried out that was available and that was Ball. The argument we're then left with is:

 

Would playing Ball for 90 minutes or so prior to the weekend's game have made a difference to his performance in the semi final?

 

I don't believe so. All I was suggesting was that, rather than helping us on Saturday, it would have just fucked up a couple of league games instead - cutting our nose off to spite our face. There was zero upside and only a downside. To me, it wasn't a case of saying: playing Ball = greater chance of semi success. It was: playing Ball = lose league games. I'm really surprised that people are seeing the upside of playing Ball and the effect that it would have had on his semi performance. The argument seems to me to be: "we should have tried out the team first", with little or no detail behind that. When you dig into the detail your left with just Ball who wasn't given time, and he's pap.

[Ten Caat]

I believe trying Ball out in a couple of league matches would have shown that he wasn't capable of playing right back and so would have afforded DM the opportunity to revise his tactics for the cup tie, most likely going with a back 3. Might still have lost the tie who knows, but throwing Ball in was a gamble too far ( I don't consider playing him at right back in an U20 match a proper test).

 

 

[Ramperbamper]

I believe trying Ball out in a couple of league matches would have shown that he wasn't capable of playing right back and so would have afforded DM the opportunity to revise his tactics for the cup tie, most likely going with a back 3. Might still have lost the tie who knows, but throwing Ball in was a gamble too far ( I don't consider playing him at right back in an U20 match a proper test).

 

Given DM's comments post match he knows we're deficient there, and took a calculated risk on Ball in the hope that he'd muddle through the 90. I can understand why he didn't take the risk in league games where we had Logan available, and there's no legislating for the total brain freeze he had when he inexplicably stopped rather than play to the whistle. He was semi competent there at Parkhead when Logan was out, so I'm not really buying the little boy lost excuse.

 

[Ten Caat]

The thing is Logan has been on a season long slump. We are in third place in the league in spite of him, not because of him. So I just dont believe playing Ball in a couple of matches would really have made any great difference to the results. I think we would still have beaten St Johnstone and still have lost to Fartz. But at least we would have found out Ball was not a suitable option for the semi....