Summer Transfer chat

[A llad insane]

Derby lad Lowe looks a touch of class, only positive from today.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Derby lad Lowe looks a touch of class, only positive from today.

 

Thought he played well, a few dodgy moments defensively but very aggressive going forward which was good to see.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Eand hopefully lead us to silverwear even if it is only in cup competitions.

 

Not trying to trip you up or anything but do you feel that we're going to win a cup this season?

 

And if so, why?

 

And if not, why not?

[CtS]

Not trying to trip you up or anything but do you feel that we're going to win a cup this season?

 

And if so, why?

 

And if not, why not?

 

I think it’s possible, don’t you? There’s a lot worse teams than ours who’ve won the Scottish cup and league cup over the years - that’s the beauty of knock out competition rather than a league campaign.

 

Listen I know we’ve not exactly set the heather on fire yet this season, and I can see the glaring question marks over some of the latest recruits - I can also appreciate we’ve been unlucky with injuries and a questionable red card decision yesterday....it’s too early for knee-jerk reactions in my opinion. I believe McInnes deserves our patience, that’s all.

[rocket_scientist]

hoban and wilson were crocks prior to joning us.. not clever

 

I don't know enough about their histories to agree or disagree but it wouldn't surprise me if you're right. I suspect Stevie May is fucked. How can a player who was so good earlier this decade be so ineffective now? We know he suffered a serious injury in England. I would have expected McInnes to be able to unlock this question. After all, he was his manager back then and after TWO WHOLE YEARS he keeps on picking May and it's clearly not working. Can't he not see what's wrong? There aren't too many options. He's either become lazy in training (attitude, work ethic and mindset) or he's physically not able, almost like a bird with a broken wing. Whatever the reason for May's massive regression - he should be in his prime just now - it's either stubbornness on one hand to keep on picking him in the hope that he comes good or it is incompetence on the other, allowing a talent to go backwards or not being able to see that there's a big problem with him.

[BobbyBiscuit]

I think it’s possible, don’t you? There’s a lot worse teams than ours who’ve won the Scottish cup and league cup over the years - that’s the beauty of knock out competition rather than a league campaign.

 

Listen I know we’ve not exactly set the heather on fire yet this season, and I can see the glaring question marks over some of the latest recruits - I can also appreciate we’ve been unlucky with injuries and a questionable red card decision yesterday....it’s too early for knee-jerk reactions in my opinion. I believe McInnes deserves our patience, that’s all.

 

Of course it's possible, unfortunately I also feel we're getting further away from it being likely.

 

But I also agree with your post, we've got new players, injuries to key personnel, it will take time for us to get into our stride, so our best is definitely to come. Hopefully its good enough to take us where we want to be.

[CtS]

Injuries to key players, but McInnes has also made some bad calls. He’s got the recruitment wrong in the past for sure, some absolute howlers to be fair, but our budget dictates which market we shop in - and the English lower leagues are just as likely to throw up a carthorse as the occasional hidden gem. I know I’m probably overly optimistic at times, and probably too forgiving of DMC’s flaws, but I want him to be the one who delivers some silverware so much. I know we (the supporters) have earned it, and I feel he has too.

[ayrshire_don74]

hibs signed lb that has been capped by netherlands... wonder where the dna money is...or maybe mcinnes has his eye on an injury prone shiter from down south

[Ramperbamper]

hibs signed lb that has been capped by netherlands... wonder where the dna money is...or maybe mcinnes has his eye on an injury prone shiter from down south

 

Sounds like you've done your research on this lad - is he actually any good and what's his injury record like?

[Jute]

Sounds like you've done your research on this lad - is he actually any good and what's his injury record like?

 

Played and 139 times over 7 years with Feyenoord according to soccerbase plus 10 times on loan for Sparta Rotterdam. Suggests he is not that injury prone but no idea if it means he is any good.

[ayrshire_don74]

would suggest having played most of games with  a top dutch side and being capped twice , would indicate some degree of quality

[RicoS321]

would suggest having played most of games with  a top dutch side and being capped twice , would indicate some degree of quality

 

Possibly. Probably just a poor man's Max Lowe.

[Ramperbamper]

Possibly. Probably just a poor man's Max Lowe.

 

Suspect the truth is that no-one knows, so the initial remark isn't much more than a wild assumption framed in such a way to have a cheap dig against our manager.

 

 

 

[ayrshire_don74]

no its a critique of a so far appalling transfer strategy, but you seem to have the inside track you condescending fud

[Dunty]

hibs signed lb that has been capped by netherlands...wonder where the dna money is...or maybe mcinnes has his eye on an injury prone shiter from down south

 

The majority of people are paying in monthly instalments. So the answer to your question is 75% of the DNA money hasn't arrived yet, and the 25% that has, minis the costs in setting it up, freebies to members etc, means there's probably about £50,000-80,000 to spend. What sort of player are you expecting for that?

[manc_don]

The majority of people are paying in monthly instalments. So the answer to your question is 75% of the DNA money hasn't arrived yet, and the 25% that has, minis the costs in setting it up, freebies to members etc, means there's probably about £50,000-80,000 to spend. What sort of player are you expecting for that?

 

The amount of people that seem incapable of working this out is beyond me.  Imagine the outcry if folk were made to pay upfront?!?  It's a good scheme, whilst I can't afford to do it at the moment, I hope to at some point in the future.  Hopefully we'll reap the rewards over the next couple of years.

[Ramperbamper]

no its a critique of a so far appalling transfer strategy, but you seem to have the inside track you condescending fud

 

McInnes' transfer strategy which he's had from the start, which has generally involved signing up coming players from our league or players from down south who are out of the picture for whatever reason, has been fairly successful up to a point, as much as the well may be starting to run dry. Certainly wouldn't call it appalling.

[RicoS321]

McInnes' transfer strategy which he's had from the start, which has generally involved signing up coming players from our league or players from down south who are out of the picture for whatever reason, has been fairly successful up to a point, as much as the well may be starting to run dry. Certainly wouldn't call it appalling.

 

That point was 2-3 seasons ago though. A manager should be looking at about 50% return on their signings. By that I mean 50% who improve the squad. A lot of people have unrealistic expectations of all our signings being great. We didn't get close to 50% last season, and maybe scraped it the year before. It's a little too early to judge this season's signings as a closed case, but let's give it a try anyway!

 

Success

Hoban*

Lowe

Ferguson

 

 

Not a success

Gleeson*

Forrester

Wilson

 

*I've included Hoban in the success category as he was okay early doors. Gleeson in the not a success because he's been underwhelming. That could change, with Gleeson looking slightly better and Hoban dead or something.

 

A lot this season hinges on Wilson's performances once fit. At the moment it's not looking good, but he could just tip the balance in McInnes' favour in terms of his signings. Given his position he could also be the difference between us having a relatively poor season and a good season.

 

I've not included Devlin because he was signed last season, and all he did was go some way towards mitigating that season's terrible outing(s) in the transfer market. I'd agree that I wouldn't call this season appalling either, but the last two season's windows were and so it isn't unrealistic for fans wanting to have a greater stike rate this season to make up for the last two.

[Ramperbamper]

Always think it's a bit tricky trying to work out a manager's transfer hit rate - are signings who've mainstays of the team and success we've had (Lewis, McLean, Logan, Rooney etc) negated by cheap filler who left/were dropped as soon as we realised they weren't going to do much for us (Monkana, Parker, Collin etc)?

 

The worry is that we're now in a bigger battle to sign the sort of good players like McLean who we'd have snapped up no bother when Sevco, Hibs and Hearts were weak/out of the league. I've still got hopes for Forrester, but it doesn't give us much room for fuck ups, which is the worrying thing at the moment.

 

[RicoS321]

Always think it's a bit tricky trying to work out a manager's transfer hit rate - are signings who've mainstays of the team and success we've had (Lewis, McLean, Logan, Rooney etc) negated by cheap filler who left/were dropped as soon as we realised they weren't going to do much for us (Monkana, Parker, Collin etc)?

 

The worry is that we're now in a bigger battle to sign the sort of good players like McLean who we'd have snapped up no bother when Sevco, Hibs and Hearts were weak/out of the league. I've still got hopes for Forrester, but it doesn't give us much room for fuck ups, which is the worrying thing at the moment.

 

I don't think it's that tricky. Most of us know roughly speaking who is a success and who isn't and that would be backed up by length of contract versus minutes played. An unsuccesful signing doesn't negate a good one it is just - as suggested - making for a poorer average. That average becomes more of an issue as the number of first team spaces that require to be filled increases as it has in the past couple of years. The filler pish that you mention are just signings that don't need to be made and prevent youth minutes on the park. Even if you removed those, you still return a high proportion of known duds. Tansey, Storey, Stockley, Zola, Forrester*, Gleeson* and so on, who aren't punts but well-scouted targets purchased for the first team. They have an impact on the good siginings' ability to win us games by dragging us down. Arguably, that poor return results in an increased number of punts on Maynards (Maynard was only signed because both Storey and Stockley were shite for example), so it has a doubled negative effect.

 

*I'm assuming they're not up to standard for the purposes of the debate

[Ramperbamper]

I don't think it's that tricky. Most of us know roughly speaking who is a success and who isn't and that would be backed up by length of contract versus minutes played. An unsuccesful signing doesn't negate a good one it is just - as suggested - making for a poorer average. That average becomes more of an issue as the number of first team spaces that require to be filled increases as it has in the past couple of years. The filler pish that you mention are just signings that don't need to be made and prevent youth minutes on the park. Even if you removed those, you still return a high proportion of known duds. Tansey, Storey, Stockley, Zola, Forrester*, Gleeson* and so on, who aren't punts but well-scouted targets purchased for the first team. They have an impact on the good siginings' ability to win us games by dragging us down. Arguably, that poor return results in an increased number of punts on Maynards (Maynard was only signed because both Storey and Stockley were shite for example), so it has a doubled negative effect.

 

*I'm assuming they're not up to standard for the purposes of the debate

 

As has been established, no manager has a perfect strike rate and all we can really ask is that the duds are kept to a minumum, then get sussed out and moved on sooner rather than later - out of the ones you mentioned I'd only really have Tansey, Zola and Storey as universally accepted duds given Stockley split opinion (but left after 1 season regardless). In other words, the duds are benched/moved on long before they're able to "drag the team down" to any degree.

 

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

As has been established, no manager has a perfect strike rate and all we can really ask is that the duds are kept to a minumum, then get sussed out and moved on sooner rather than later - out of the ones you mentioned I'd only really have Tansey, Zola and Storey as universally accepted duds given Stockley split opinion (but left after 1 season regardless). In other words, the duds are benched/moved on long before they're able to "drag the team down" to any degree.

 

You missed the point. They drag the team down because they were scouted and brought in as first team players and so - by virtue of the fact they were pish - by not filling that required spot the team was adversely affected and others had to pull more of the weight. It doesn't matter whether we got rid of them after a year or not is irrelevant. Take May as a simple example. Can you imagine the success we could have had if we'd brought it in an actual striker? We'd have got into the Europa, not got knocked out of the league cup and probably not lost the semi. We didn't do those things because we had May and not - let's say - Moult. The signings that we spent the most time and effort researching have too often been average or shite. Nobody is expecting a perfect strike rate. we are/I am expecting better than the last two seasons. Especially as our outlay is increasing (£400K for May, £250K for GMS?).

[wee toon red]

You missed the point. They drag the team down because they were scouted and brought in as first team players and so - by virtue of the fact they were pish - by not filling that required spot the team was adversely affected and others had to pull more of the weight. It doesn't matter whether we got rid of them after a year or not is irrelevant. Take May as a simple example. Can you imagine the success we could have had if we'd brought it in an actual striker? We'd have got into the Europa, not got knocked out of the league cup and probably not lost the semi. We didn't do those things because we had May and not - let's say - Moult. The signings that we spent the most time and effort researching have too often been average or shite. Nobody is expecting a perfect strike rate. we are/I am expecting better than the last two seasons. Especially as our outlay is increasing (£400K for May, £250K for GMS?).

 

You're not, in all seriousness, suggesting the difference in those games - especially the Scottish Cup semi when the entire team was atrocious - is solely down to Stevie May being signed instead of Moult/AN Other are you?

[KennyFuckinPowers]

You're not, in all seriousness, suggesting the difference in those games - especially the Scottish Cup semi when the entire team was atrocious - is solely down to Stevie May being signed instead of Moult/AN Other are you?

 

Obviously can't speak for Rico here, but I read it as " If we'd signed better players, using a proper Striker as an example " type of post.

[Ten Caat]

The Cup semi was a bad example to use though. We could have had Christiano Ronaldo playing striker that day and still gotten pumped such was the ineptitude of performance (the suspensions being the biggest root cause)