Summer Transfer chat

[RicoS321]

I’d rather take the loan option for a year than spend £200k signing our 6th/7th choice striker on a 3 year deal. We’ve now got 12 months to plan for the long term solution.

 

He should be at least as good as any of the League 1/2 strikers we’ve been linked with.

 

It's a very good point. At some point - and I'd have thought it is around the time you're considering spanking £300K on Eoin Doyle - you have to take stock and decide whether you're just signing a player because you absolutely need to rather than if they're any good or not. Hopefully more become available in January.

 

 

[A llad insane]

Hoping Wilson is a class above another young ManU loanee we had, Alex Notman anyone ?

[rocket_scientist]

He said all the right things in his telly interview.

 

But he said them in the wrong tone. Like smoking a cigarette and knowing it was part of a dud conspiracy, as J.B. Priestley said (wrote). Like he didn't really believe it.

 

Time will tell.

[SeeBass]

Was Ben Thornley not Manchester United once upon a time too??

[A llad insane]

Was Ben Thornley not Manchester United once upon a time too??

 

Indeed he was

[Jute]

Was Ben Thornley not Manchester United once upon a time too??

 

He was.

[Ten Caat]

So was Ralph Milne at one stage. Wtf was Fergie thinking??

[KennyFuckinPowers]

Here's an article, with some comments from his former youth coaches, which is an interesting read ( in my opinion )

 

Particularly the comments from Warren Joyce.

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-transfer-news-wilson-14997241

[manc_don]

Here's an article, with some comments from his former youth coaches, which is an interesting read ( in my opinion )

 

Particularly the comments from Warren Joyce.

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-transfer-news-wilson-14997241

 

Interesting read. Always wondered why macheda never made it there too.

[tlg1903]

It would appear this loan move is sink or swim for him. Fingers crossed DM can get him motivated, whatever other criticism that can be levelled at McInnes he is good at getting his players to work for him.  Indeed I would say it's his strongest attribute.

[rocket_scientist]

It would appear this loan move is sink or swim for him. Fingers crossed DM can get him motivated, whatever other criticism that can be levelled at McInnes he is good at getting his players to work for him.  Indeed I would say it's his strongest attribute.

 

You introduced a new angle, one that has got me thinking. I'm still working out what I agree with and what we will disagree on. I'll work through it now to get to the truth (only as I see it of course).

 

McInnes does inspire loyalty, it's true. The players like him. But the exact words you used was "good at getting his players to work for him". You are also hoping that "DM can get him motivated".

 

In my opinion, DM is particularly weak at getting footballers to perform at anywhere near their best. I think there is a massive difference between being popular and being effective.

 

From experience, I also know that most people will never go an extra mile if they don't have to. The only sportsmen who do are self-motivated, they will BLEED for the cause and will stop at nothing to get to where they need to go.

 

We also know that winner mentalities won't accept working with loser mentalities or with charlatans who fake having a winner mentality. The whole culture under McInnes is fake. He doesn't want superstar performances. Ask Maddison.

 

In Northern Europe, we have a culture of the tall poppy syndrome enshrined into our societies. Norway are having the debate about Janteloven - the law of Jante - and we in Scotland similarly adopt the philosophy that "we are a Jock Tamson' s bairn's".

 

Expect the boy to be a dud for AFC. His history is rotten. His new employer isn't a winner.

 

 

[RicoS321]

Yep, I'm not convinced that "getting his players to work for him" is the best term either. Rather that he gets his players to remain loyal to him. And not in a Jimmy C "best mates" way either, there seems to be a distinct professionalism about the relationships within the club. Again we see another transfer go smoothly without gossip or leak. In terms of his management - in an administrative and directorial capacity - I think we've not seen anything as good since Ferguson. There is a very obvious loyalty and a strong discipline that can only come from respect for the man; I think it'd be very difficult to argue otherwise. However, he's missing the ability to turn that into big game motivation and being held back by his own fear of losing/lack of risk taking. I think that would need an entirely different person. There is a strong team mentality, but with that we seem to be losing individual thought and creativity (although GMS seems to have been given licence to try shit this season and so far that is paying off). This has led to hard-work and safe-play being given precedent over taking chances. It's a balance that McInnes has never managed to get right and it only really becomes obvious in the big games. It's clearly quite a delicate balance though as we see the gung-ho Lennon fuck it up again at the weekend against a team we would undoubtedly have beaten whilst at full strength. Our victory with a weakened team against Dundee is testament to McInnes' approach, but so is our draw against ten men the week before. His approach got us second in the league that nearly every other manager in the division would have struggled to match, but his reliance on loyalty lost us a semi final against Motherwell that several other managers would have got us through on the day.

 

However this guy turns out, it'll be hard work for the team first, individual performance second. If he can't do the former then we'll never see the latter. For the former to work we need to see how he'll fit into our style and how he'll link up. We'll also have to address the massive issues in our central midfield or else he'll be hit with punts all day long. Until we sort out the midfield, I don't think we'll see anything from him and he'll be part of another 65th minute substitution but with May - unfortunately - replacing Anderson as the go-to (the most obvious area in which McInnes - and a lot of other managers - lacks).

[CtS]

Yep, I'm not convinced that "getting his players to work for him" is the best term either. Rather that he gets his players to remain loyal to him. And not in a Jimmy C "best mates" way either, there seems to be a distinct professionalism about the relationships within the club. Again we see another transfer go smoothly without gossip or leak. In terms of his management - in an administrative and directorial capacity - I think we've not seen anything as good since Ferguson. There is a very obvious loyalty and a strong discipline that can only come from respect for the man; I think it'd be very difficult to argue otherwise. However, he's missing the ability to turn that into big game motivation and being held back by his own fear of losing/lack of risk taking. I think that would need an entirely different person. There is a strong team mentality, but with that we seem to be losing individual thought and creativity (although GMS seems to have been given licence to try shit this season and so far that is paying off). This has led to hard-work and safe-play being given precedent over taking chances. It's a balance that McInnes has never managed to get right and it only really becomes obvious in the big games. It's clearly quite a delicate balance though as we see the gung-ho Lennon fuck it up again at the weekend against a team we would undoubtedly have beaten whilst at full strength. Our victory with a weakened team against Dundee is testament to McInnes' approach, but so is our draw against ten men the week before. His approach got us second in the league that nearly every other manager in the division would have struggled to match, but his reliance on loyalty lost us a semi final against Motherwell that several other managers would have got us through on the day.

 

However this guy turns out, it'll be hard work for the team first, individual performance second. If he can't do the former then we'll never see the latter. For the former to work we need to see how he'll fit into our style and how he'll link up. We'll also have to address the massive issues in our central midfield or else he'll be hit with punts all day long. Until we sort out the midfield, I don't think we'll see anything from him and he'll be part of another 65th minute substitution but with May - unfortunately - replacing Anderson as the go-to (the most obvious area in which McInnes - and a lot of other managers - lacks).

 

Good post, +1.

[tlg1903]

Aye good post Rico, I've been hoping to see more from Forrester re centre of the park creativity but he's not had much game time.  He looks like a no 10 all day long to me.  Time will tell. 

 

Rocket I take your points.  What I'm hoping is now Wilson has reached 22 and his career has stalled he will be more open to working harder on the training pitch and having a manager that you want to do well for will aid that.

[RicoS321]

Aye good post Rico, I've been hoping to see more from Forrester re centre of the park creativity but he's not had much game time.  He looks like a no 10 all day long to me.  Time will tell.

 

I think that not having had much game time is more of a worry. He's had the entire pre-season like anyone else. The reason he's not had much game time is that he's seen as being either not good enough, or we didn't require him for a particular game. I could understand us not needing him in the Burnley games, and perhaps even the hun game and I suppose we were trying out a front 2 to, logically, his detriment at the weekend so maybe there's some strength in that argument. My first impressions were that he was a lightweight fanny who didn't track back enough to make him worthwhile - a shite Ryan Christie. As for Gleeson, I'm not even sure what he's supposed to do? He can't perform the sitting role that Ball/Hoban did effectively against Burnley and in the "bigger" games. He doesn't have the passing range and coverage of Ferguson to provide even part of the McLean role. He doesn't have the engine and drive of Shinnie. He doesn't seem to be a number 10. He seems to have a serious case of chrisclarkitis or, at best, robmilsomsyndrome. Again, he got a decent (if slightly hampered with injury) pre-season, so I don't know what we're waiting for. He needs to get his finger out his hoop, because it's the basics of "running about" that he's not doing.

[Ten Caat]

Agree re Gleeson, seen nothing as yet to convince me that he deserves to oust Ball from the dm role once Logan is back off his ban.

 

Forrester also has been disappointing so far. Maybe it says something that Peterborough were willing to sell him relatively cheaply despite the platitudes from their manager at that point.

 

Still hoping we go for Allan from the dhims. Would certainly push Forrester even further down the pecking list.

[LA-Don]

Speculation from me (and hope) but I do see a different style of play from us moving forward. I think Burnley was treated as David versus Goliath and we’d be long ball defensive, especially with limited forwards available. I don’t think it was intended to be a long term style of play. It continued into the rangers game because we hadn’t signed a forward, but even versus Dundee I predicted we’d see 2 up top and we saw a slightly different approach.

 

I think the plan was to start forrester and Gleeson but Gleeson picked up a preseason knock and we signed ball. Low risk McInnes continued with Ball because he knew what he’d get. The spanner in the works is Ferguson, who has over achieved to date and made it hard to be dropped. Forrester was injured too and Ferguson took his chance, and tough to drop him now.....but I expect it to happen at some point.

 

I think eventually we’ll see a central midfield of Gleeson Shinnie and forrester behind Wilson, similar in approach to Shinnie McLean and Christie.

 

Regarding mcinnes, I see his strength as his respect and professionalism. From the tea lady to the players he’s a classy and respectful guy. The players aren’t treated as kids but he is respectful and honest. He, doc, and Robson have created a very positive work environment where the players enjoy coming to work and chemistry is high. McInnes has learned well about man management, not in the JC best mates way, but in a well crafted professional manner where players have been respected and even empowered. Modern approach. Motivation is different, I think he struggles to get the highest levels of performance and consistency from many of our players.

[LA-Don]

I’d also even argue McInnes is more of the ian cathro type (but with an appealing personality), very up with modern methods regarding sport science, nutrition, match preparation and analysis, scouting and opponent analysis etc, but actually lacks on the footballing front.

[tlg1903]

You also have to give the new players time to settle in a new city and team. 

[RicoS321]

You also have to give the new players time to settle in a new city and team.

 

Absolutely. I'm just giving my early opinions on both based on our previous style of play, likely style this season and what is required of SPL players. I'm not one to get on folks' backs and will admit I'm wrong when/if things start to change. I think it's good to put your neck on the line early doors and take the flak when you're shown to be completely wrong (Taylor wasn't as bad as I first accused him for example, Tansey, Storey, Maynard all proved me right). I'd say I'm right more often than not based on early predictions. I'm going on Gleeson's visible attributes to date, and I don't see how they fit into an SPL team at our level playing the way we are likely to. I see a place for Forrester in attacking midfield if he can get up to speed. I agree with LA Don in that we'll see more of the two up front being used this season perhaps May and Wilson), but I don't see that Gleeson will manage that 1 of a 2 in the SPL midfield - I think we'll get overrun. If we're going back 3, I think that Forrester, Shinnie and Ferguson would be far more complimentary of one another. If we're going 4-1-4-1 then it's Ball all day long. I think Gleeson will be a sub after a period of starts. 

 

What I'm trying to say is, I fucking hate Gleeson.

[LA-Don]

Absolutely. I'm just giving my early opinions on both based on our previous style of play, likely style this season and what is required of SPL players. I'm not one to get on folks' backs and will admit I'm wrong when/if things start to change. I think it's good to put your neck on the line early doors and take the flak when you're shown to be completely wrong (Taylor wasn't as bad as I first accused him for example, Tansey, Storey, Maynard all proved me right). I'd say I'm right more often than not based on early predictions. I'm going on Gleeson's visible attributes to date, and I don't see how they fit into an SPL team at our level playing the way we are likely to. I see a place for Forrester in attacking midfield if he can get up to speed. I agree with LA Don in that we'll see more of the two up front being used this season perhaps May and Wilson), but I don't see that Gleeson will manage that 1 of a 2 in the SPL midfield - I think we'll get overrun. If we're going back 3, I think that Forrester, Shinnie and Ferguson would be far more complimentary of one another. If we're going 4-1-4-1 then it's Ball all day long. I think Gleeson will be a sub after a period of starts. 

 

What I'm trying to say is, I fucking hate Gleeson.

 

Yes and no. Settling in is overrated. We're not a foreign country, climate, language issues etc. However, the speed of our game is different.

 

I think you are harsh on Gleeson. You may be right in the long run, but he's played two league games with a makeshift defense and different formations. I HATE saying this, but he's a Ryan Jack type. Will never do anything glamorous or spectacular but will sit in the gap between defense and midfield, pick off passes, receive a simple ball, and give it to a more creative player. He always looks for a short pass like Jack or even McLean did, even Flood. I think he's the guy that fills a hole - never McLean's real strength and Shinniie certainly likes to get forward. He looks less clumsy than Ball and more technical, but I think Ball is more physical. Haven't seen him tackle, don't know if he can, but he'll need to do so to establish himself in our starting 11.

[Slim]

Would be interesting to know how much we're paying Gleeson and how much we would have had to pay for Mulumbu.

 

I'm all for giving Gleeson a chance (despite shitebagging out of a 50/50 with Ryan Jack) but you'd think Mulumbu would be the more sensible option (proven at a higher level than Gleeson has ever played at and proven in the SPFL) if the wage demands were in the same ballpark.

[LA-Don]

It appears Mulumbu is still without a club. Makes me wonder if we ever considered or spoke to him given we don’t sign foreigners.

[A llad insane]

Reading D.M's piece in tonights ee, he mentions Wilson playing off the main striker & i'm wondering if he is toying with going with 2 strikers up top? May & Wilson ?

[SeeBass]

I'm quite intrigued by the 'no lose at any cost'  talk.  Do you think this is why in Europe from twelve home legs we've drawn seven??  Is it just me or were FC Groningen, FK Shkendija, HNK Rijeka, Kairat Almaty, NK Maribor, Siroki Brijeg all beatable??