Summer Transfer chat

[rocket_scientist]

A professionally-run organisation has talent-identification as an ongoing process.

 

An intelligent organisation seeks to utilise pre-contract deals to tie up the best prospects.

 

If it's true that we are in for a guy who's been under our noses and in our faces, why are we only acting now?

[manc_don]

A professionally-run organisation has talent-identification as an ongoing process.

 

An intelligent organisation seeks to utilise pre-contract deals to tie up the best prospects.

 

If it's true that we are in for a guy who's been under our noses and in our faces, why are we only acting now?

 

I understood we tried to get him on a pre contract in January but it just didn’t happen. Guessing he wanted to wait until the end of the season to see where the land lay.

[Ten Caat]

We did indeed try to get him on a pre contract. Supposedly he was on the verge of signing for Coventry City 

for nearly twice what we were offering. Guess that has broken down and now his agent is playing interested clubs off against each other.

[tom_widdows]

We did indeed try to get him on a pre contract. Supposedly he was on the verge of signing for Coventry City 

for nearly twice what we were offering. Guess that has broken down and now his agent is playing interested clubs off against each other.

 

If so I doubt anything will happen until 29th May at the earliest and depending on whether or not Coventry turn over Exeter at Wembley.

 

 

[Lencarl]

Not that excited if we sign McGeouch or not. His agent is playing a bidding war with him. He is not worth breaking our pay structure for. Could also cause some issues with the dressing room if he was on a lot more money than most of our top players.

[rocket_scientist]

Not that excited if we sign McGeouch or not. His agent is playing a bidding war with him. He is not worth breaking our pay structure for. Could also cause some issues with the dressing room if he was on a lot more money than most of our top players.

 

Which top players are these?

[Lencarl]

Which top players are these?

 

No idea which players are on the highest wages at the club but the guys who play week in week out are my idea of our top players 

 

[LA-Don]

No idea which players are on the highest wages at the club but the guys who play week in week out are my idea of our top players 

 

Seriously, who? Lewis McKenna and Shinnie are our top players, and the first two just got new improved deals. Shinnie for sure is due one with a year left  and who is to say that he’d get a better offer than McGeough. The rest don’t deserve more than a player like McGeough.

[KennyFuckinPowers]

Okay, so as silly season starts, just had a text to say that Scott Wright will be going to Partick Thistle on loan and it will announced next week, if not Friday.  And in the same text, we have apparently approached a guy called Danny Philliskirk & Tony Watt won't be coming, St Johnstone his destination allegedly.

 

Would take this with a huge pinch of salt, as Gordon has been a hit and a miss with his information. I'm pretty sure McInnes likes to get his holiday out of the way and work quietly behind the scenes.

[Ten Caat]

Dear God lets hope this is duff info. We've just punted a striker who doesn't score, last thing we need is to bring another one in.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Philliskirk

[manc_don]

Hmm, I'd hope we're actually putting our resources into midfield and then defence. We have the strikers that with the right type of service, can thrive.  It's just getting that service.

 

Shame Scott Wright never went out on loan in Jan.  Oh well.

[RicoS321]

Hmm, I'd hope we're actually putting our resources into midfield and then defence. We have the strikers that with the right type of service, can thrive.  It's just getting that service.

 

Shame Scott Wright never went out on loan in Jan.  Oh well.

 

I disagree, I think striker has been issue for a long time, and will continue to be next season as May clearly isn't an improvement on what we've got in Rooney. Striker is the one position that has prevented us from getting to the next level in Europe and taking more points off the tims. Rooney's limitations have been obvious for a few years now, despite having a phenomenal scoring record in general. Cosgrove provides something different for those types of games, but I doubt he'll be good enough to do that consistently and to the level required. I'd say that striker is equally as important as midfield right now and we should be spending the biggest portion of the budget on those two areas. That said, I'd class Shinnie as left back within that opinion, so really we'd be looking at two good midfielders. If we start next season with the same strike force as this, I think we'll struggle to improve. If it was a choice between a striker and defender then I think we could cope with a back four of Considine, McKenna, Devlin, Logan against opposition at Appollon's level (for example), but I think if we had to play May, Rooney or Cosgrove up front we'd be likely to lose again. Obviously, the answer is to be looking at 4 good players to fit straight into our first 11, but if we were putting an order to it I'd be saying midfielder, striker, midfielder, fullback/winger.

[CvB]

I disagree, I think striker has been issue for a long time, and will continue to be next season as May clearly isn't an improvement on what we've got in Rooney. Striker is the one position that has prevented us from getting to the next level in Europe and taking more points off the tims. Rooney's limitations have been obvious for a few years now, despite having a phenomenal scoring record in general. Cosgrove provides something different for those types of games, but I doubt he'll be good enough to do that consistently and to the level required. I'd say that striker is equally as important as midfield right now and we should be spending the biggest portion of the budget on those two areas. That said, I'd class Shinnie as left back within that opinion, so really we'd be looking at two good midfielders. If we start next season with the same strike force as this, I think we'll struggle to improve. If it was a choice between a striker and defender then I think we could cope with a back four of Considine, McKenna, Devlin, Logan against opposition at Appollon's level (for example), but I think if we had to play May, Rooney or Cosgrove up front we'd be likely to lose again. Obviously, the answer is to be looking at 4 good players to fit straight into our first 11, but if we were putting an order to it I'd be saying midfielder, striker, midfielder, fullback/winger.

 

You see Rooneys limitations, I see Rooneys strengths.

 

He is a penalty box striker.

 

Knockdowns, rebounds, poachers goals. We've had decent ones in the past and they have all had the same "limitations"

The thing is, those limitations are that they are not going to thrive on the wing, they're not at their best tracking back and looking for the ball deep, they're not necessarily any good as a link up man....so why in the name of fuck is Rooney played in those positions when he does get a game?

 

[KennyFuckinPowers]

I assumed Philliskirk was to replace Christie, I looked at his stats after getting the text and he sometimes plays attacking midfielder rather than up front. In any case, and at the risk of being a negative cunt, he doesn't inspire. Never seen him play though so will reserve judgement. That's if there's any truth in it.

 

I see Forrester & Baldwin will be allowed to leave for est £100k-200k now, would imagine that's more in our price range, especially given the funds raised from AberDNA. 

[Ten Caat]

We would be better off signing Phyllis Pearce outta Corrie

[Guest jinkyjoe]

We should desperately be trying to build a team around Rooney's strengths and it would be sheer madness to consider getting rid of him.  He is Mr Goals and at only 30 he's got at least another good couple of seasons left in him.  With pacey players round about him he should be the focal point of our team and not just a bit part or impact player.

 

Looking back over the recent past there are few strikers that have scored 20 goals or more in a season for us.  Hewitt never managed it, nor did folk like Jess or Booth and Rooney apart, I would doubt whether anyone else managed it post Shearer.

 

If we got rid of Rooney he would be snapped up by somone else in 5 minutes.

 

 

[OxfordDon]

I see Forrester & Baldwin will be allowed to leave for est £100k-200k now, would imagine that's more in our price range, especially given the funds raised from AberDNA.

 

Peterborough seem extremely keen to get shot of them, which hardly bodes well.

[RicoS321]

We should desperately be trying to build a team around Rooney's strengths and it would be sheer madness to consider getting rid of him.  He is Mr Goals and at only 30 he's got at least another good couple of seasons left in him.  With pacey players round about him he should be the focal point of our team and not just a bit part or impact player.

 

Looking back over the recent past there are few strikers that have scored 20 goals or more in a season for us.  Hewitt never managed it, nor did folk like Jess or Booth and Rooney apart, I would doubt whether anyone else managed it post Shearer.

 

If we got rid of Rooney he would be snapped up by somone else in 5 minutes.

 

Of course he would. The question is, would he be snapped up by someone better than us? I don't think so. That's why I'm highlighting his limitations. I agree with a lot of what you and CvB say, and I would rather we got rid of May than Rooney. I spent several months defending him when others on here were questioning him whilst going through a poor patch a while back, and he came good again as expected. Whilst I think May has some better attributes, I think Rooney is a better penalty box striker. We spent a couple of seasons working a team around Rooney, and it worked very well, and he banged in a heap of goals as a result. That said, it was blatantly obvious in the European games and the games against the Tims that we couldn't afford the luxury of the penalty box striker - it's a function of creating significantly fewer chances. We're not going to get to the next round in Europe with Rooney up front, for exactly the same reason that we didn't in the last few years (Rooney was injured this year, but his replacements weren't up to it either). That's why Rooney barely features in games against the bigger teams, and when he does he's often anonymous. Not just anonymous though, him being there actually has a negative effect as he doesn't bring others into play or take the pressure off. His fantastic work-rate means he can regularly be seen way back in our own half attempting to catch someone. When we get the ball back, he's then unavailable for a good twenty seconds while he gets back in position (obviously that could be coached out). McInnes, in attempting to play him alongside another striker, ends up moving him out wide - as better teams have worked out that all you need to do is play a wide 3 at the back to force Rooney out of position - rather than just sub him as he doesn't want to lose the option of his best scorer.

 

Rooney's a 20 goal a season man because we have/had the providers in our team that were better than any others in the league. He's the first person to do it since Shearer because he's the best striker we've had since then, but we've also got a better team than every other team in the league outside Celtic for the first time since Shearer.

[Guest jinkyjoe]

I'd like to see Rooney get a good run of games with Cosgrove alongside him. At the end of the season Cosgrove was up there on his own with no one to flick it on to and the team didn't have many attempts on goal.  I don't see why we cannot go with two up front but DM doesn't seem to agree.

[KennyFuckinPowers]

Peterborough seem extremely keen to get shot of them, which hardly bodes well.

 

I think they are having a pretty big clear out, perhaps finances dictate so? Not sure, but all I know is that according to their Chairman and media, they were both highly thought of not so long ago and should have commanded a much better transfer fee. Time will tell, but if their Chairman has dropped our name in to public domain, there must be  truth to this.

[RicoS321]

I'd like to see Rooney get a good run of games with Cosgrove alongside him. At the end of the season Cosgrove was up there on his own with no one to flick it on to and the team didn't have many attempts on goal.  I don't see why we cannot go with two up front but DM doesn't seem to agree.

 

He did play two up front against Hearts and Hibs and in part against the hun and it worked well from a ball retention aspect. It was May who got the nod however. Understandably too, as he scored a shite load up front for St Johnstone in that format. I'm not sure on which planet Rooney is going to reach a flick on though, it's not his game. He'll get knock downs, but that means you probably need a 4-4-2 with high wingers. With the better teams switching quickly to a 3-5-2 to counteract this, you're left completely exposed, and either your winger has to come back the way, or you sacrifice Rooney to the wing in a 4-2-3-1, which invariably happened (this was usually down to our lack of midfield option that would allow Shinnie to play left wing back). Rooney needs us to hit the byline, and that happens best - for us - in a 4-2-3-1, with plenty of protection and McGinn and another hitting the  fullback at pace. Rooney is great over 5 yards at getting his body in front of the marker and getting on the end of everything. Do you genuinely see Rooney playing the Mackie role of the Miller/Mackie partnership* alongside Cosgrove?

 

*this is light-heartedness, clearly Mackie shouldn't be on the same pitch as Rooney

[Guest jinkyjoe]

He did play two up front against Hearts and Hibs and in part against the hun and it worked well from a ball retention aspect. It was May who got the nod however.

 

True, May was on the pitch but you're pushing it to say he actually took part.

 

In all seriousness I agree that Rooney is paceless but I still think he could potentially gel with Cosgrove.  The hun did it with Hateley and McCoist and fat Ally was hardly the quickest but with the right people round about them I don't see how it can't work.

 

 

[KennyFuckinPowers]

He did play two up front against Hearts and Hibs and in part against the hun and it worked well from a ball retention aspect. It was May who got the nod however. Understandably too, as he scored a shite load up front for St Johnstone in that format. I'm not sure on which planet Rooney is going to reach a flick on though, it's not his game. He'll get knock downs, but that means you probably need a 4-4-2 with high wingers. With the better teams switching quickly to a 3-5-2 to counteract this, you're left completely exposed, and either your winger has to come back the way, or you sacrifice Rooney to the wing in a 4-2-3-1, which invariably happened (this was usually down to our lack of midfield option that would allow Shinnie to play left wing back). Rooney needs us to hit the byline, and that happens best - for us - in a 4-2-3-1, with plenty of protection and McGinn and another hitting the  fullback at pace. Rooney is great over 5 yards at getting his body in front of the marker and getting on the end of everything. Do you genuinely see Rooney playing the Mackie role of the Miller/Mackie partnership* alongside Cosgrove?

 

*this is light-heartedness, clearly Mackie shouldn't be on the same pitch as Rooney

 

To be fair to Mackie, I'm fairly sure I remember he did relatively well, so to speak, with Brewster and then Lee Miller. 

[LA-Don]

I think we have to be smart/realistic regarding Rooney. With McGinn and Hayes in their prime Rooney thrived off their pace and service. With less pace from wide May was a different type of forward signed but that hasn't really worked. We didn't appear to adjust tactics to fit May's game. We cannot expect Rooney to do what he's incapable of doing.......basically anything outside of the penalty box......so it really depends on who else we sign, the pieces set up around Rooney, and the tactics employed.

 

Saying all of this, I agree with the post saying that Rooney is ineffective against higher level teams and I for one want a higher level striker. We missed the boat on Moult who would have suited our style of play. I'm far from convinced with Cosgrove but do wonder if a Cosgrove/May partnership would work, but that requires 4 strong midfielders providing service and support, and we don't have that.

[manc_don]

Rooney's a 20 goal a season man because we have/had the providers in our team that were better than any others in the league. He's the first person to do it since Shearer because he's the best striker we've had since then, but we've also got a better team than every other team in the league outside Celtic for the first time since Shearer.

 

That’s why I think the midfield is the most important aspect of the rebuild. We need to find players that will get the best out of what we have. Then get a couple of defenders in to give us a bit of cover. Only then would I look at the top. No denying that missing out on moult cost us Europe, we’ve done that to death and we all agree on that point. We didn’t really have a strike force then. Ideally we’d have strikers that are going to perform in all games, but I don’t think we can afford to give rooney up unless we’ve got a proven replacement. The goal stats need to be improved but our service was diabolical this season.