World Cup

[OxfordDon]

The boy who works in my local takeaway has put his money on them to win it. His logic is 'they are all Croats' ie every single one of them was born & bred in the country (not actually sure if that is true given their age there is a chance they were born in other parts of the former Yugoslavia) and sites the example of Celtic 1967

 

Has anyone done any research into the demise of the Scottish national team and looked to see if there is any link to the number of players

1) Never having lived in Scotland

2) Never having played any football in Scotland)

3) Not having an 'actual' connection to Scotland (IE the one Scottish grandparent may have died before they were born)

 

Scotland squad for France 98 (22 players)

12 Scottish club players

Of the non Scottish based players 6 had started their careers in Scotland

19 were born in Scotland

 

Scotland squad for Euro 96 (22 players)

11 Scottish club players

Of the non Scottish based players 8 had started their careers in Scotland

19 were born in Scotland

 

Reached the playoffs for Euro 2000 with similar squads and had the team not seen fit to throw away a 2-0 lead against the belgians would have made the playoffs for Korea/ Japan

 

Potentially a massive piece of ignorance here but the consensus I have is after Craig brown left the habit of picking non scottish based (and perhaps even non scots) became more prevalent.

 

20 of the 22 players in the Croatian World Cup squad are based outside of Croatia, only 2 play for Croatian clubs.

 

4 of the 22 players were not born in Croatia:

 

Ivan Rakitic - Möhlin, Switzerland

Mateo Kovacic - Linz, Austria

Vedran Corluka - Derventa, Bosnia

Dejan Lovren - Zenica, Bosnia

 

 

[tom_widdows]

By any chance do you know many of them started either started their careers or have at least played for a croatian club?

 

With the exception of the swiss and austrian guys all were born in the former Yugoslavia.

 

Edit

 

All but two of them started their careers in Croatian football. Also large chunk of that squad started playing international football from under 15 level so have been playing together since they were at School

 

What are the stats with the Scottish squad in terms of schoolboy internationals?

 

[OxfordDon]

 

With the exception of the swiss and austrian guys all were born in the former Yugoslavia.

 

I'm not sure the logic of this holds - a comparable scenario would be discounting English, Welsh and NI players in a post-independence Scottish squad as they were born in the former United Kingdom.

 

An overall comparison with the current Scottish setup is somewhat complicated by the fact that, for some inexplicable reason, we don't have a world cup squad.  I'm not sure what would be the best previous setup to use - Mcleish's latin assemblage seems a bit too experimental, and our qualifying squads tended to change over time due to the strung out nature of the qualifiers.  Any suggestions?

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Loving the build up to the Germany v Sweden game. 

 

Henrik Larsson positively bristling when the presenter suggested everyone would be surprised if Germany lost tonight.  Then Gary Neville chips in by saying he always hated playing against Sweden because they were boring but good at set pieces.

 

Those Englishmen are such patronising pricks.

[Kowalski]

Fuck me the Germans are in trouble here.

Tournament opening up for the guffs 

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

It's arite Kowalski, never write off the Germans 

[Jute]

What a goal from Germany. Took some balls to strike a free kick like that in last minute. Gary Neville’s face was tripping him when they cut back the studio.

[tom_widdows]

I'm not sure the logic of this holds - a comparable scenario would be discounting English, Welsh and NI players in a post-independence Scottish squad as they were born in the former United Kingdom.

 

An overall comparison with the current Scottish setup is somewhat complicated by the fact that, for some inexplicable reason, we don't have a world cup squad.  I'm not sure what would be the best previous setup to use - Mcleish's latin assemblage seems a bit too experimental, and our qualifying squads tended to change over time due to the strung out nature of the qualifiers.  Any suggestions?

 

This is only a theory and I have little knowledge of former Yugoslavia but I threw the birthplace in as a possible factor to the success of a sports team. Could have absolutely fuck all to do with it but based on my family being born and raised in england is quite different to being born and raised in Scotland. I am surprised at how parochial and generally ignorant many english people are about anywhere outside england and moreover how they are perceived by other countries. Ergo is it possible that players who were born and raised down south where scottish football is belittled and patronised will not have the correct mindset to actually represent the country?

 

Anyway as for the current scotland team, wikipedia has a 'current' squad plus a list of recent call ups which can be treated as a comparison. it is also possible to pick qualifying squads from previous tournaments.

Perhaps this would be better moved to an actual thread on the scotland squad?

 

edit

Quick scan of the 'current' scotland squad plus recent call ups. only 2 players have played at under 16 level. That goes up to 4 when its under 17, and 5 at under 18.

A handful started at under 19 or under 20 but the majority started at under 21 or went straight into the squad.

Some represented england at under 18 & under 19 level.

 

As per my earlier post a large chunk of the croatian squad have played from under15s right up to the full squad. Is this merely a coincidence or a big factor in the success of their national team.

 

Iceland is the other country to consider. 1/10th population of Scotland and yet qualifying with relative ease for last 2 tournaments.

[donsdaft]

That English commentry tonight was appaling.

 

C'mon the krauts.

 

 

 

 

 

That Korean goal could put Mexico out of the tournament

[Ten Caat]

If Mexico were somehow to go out it would be a travesty for the competition. I hope they not only just qualify but go on and win the whole thing

[manc_don]

Wow, some goal by Kroos! Had read it was something special but didn't expect that at all 

 

Toivonen, horrible player, so i'm pleased the swedes lost purely because of him. They should have had a penalty though, not sure why VAR wasn't used?!?

 

Hate to say it, but this world cup is bubbling along very nicely

[Ten Caat]

It would bubble along even nicer if Panama could get a result at lunchtime

[dons8321]

It would bubble along even nicer if Panama could get a result at lunchtime

 

Well they will get a result but doubt if it'll be a good one.  Very few cars/houses with flags at the moment down here but expect that to change tomorrow.  Ah well, at least I'll be the gym to myself this afternoon.

[BigAl]

Just give them the trophy now.

[Lencarl]

If a team like Panama can qualify for a World Cup it shows you anything is possible,. Are you listening Scotland.

[tom_widdows]

If a team like Panama can qualify for a World Cup it shows you anything is possible,. Are you listening Scotland.

 

CONCACAF qualifying pot - 35 teams (3/4 qualifying spots)

29 of those teams go through 3 'qualifying rounds' to for 6 spots in the group stages which is when the USA, Mexico, Costa Rica, Trinidad & Tobago, Honduras & Panama entered

 

Group stages wittled it down to 6 teams who then played for 3 automatic qualifying sports and 1 playoff places against the Asian playoff winners.  Panama's group had Costa Rica, Haiti & Jamaica

 

UEFA Qualifying pot - 54 teams (13 qualifying spots)

No preliminary rounds

Potential opponents from the start include Germany, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, England, France, Portugal, Belgium etc

 

If yer gonna compare teams who have qualified for the tournament with Scotland, using anyone other than the UEFA based teams is pointless.

Croatia, Serbia, Iceland & Denmark spring to mind followed by Northern Ireland and Eire who made it to the playoffs

 

 

[tom_widdows]

Kawashima showing the skills that helped the arabs achieve relegation

[manc_don]

Kawashima showing the skills that helped the arabs achieve relegation

 

Have never rated him as a keeper. Not watched the highlights yet but another howler doesn’t surprise me. Good result though and hopefully we can get past the poles later this week.

[BobbyBiscuit]

 

Has anyone done any research into the demise of the Scottish national team and looked to see if there is any link to the number of players

 

3) Not having an 'actual' first touch

 

The biggest issue above.

 

The technique of our players is, by and large, absolutely shite.

 

Doesn't matter where you're born, if you're lacking in the fundamental skills of the game you will obviously struggle against those who master them.

 

It has been a long, long time since Scotland have had a player who could even think about touching the likes of Modric in terms of technique.

[OxfordDon]

This is only a theory and I have little knowledge of former Yugoslavia but I threw the birthplace in as a possible factor to the success of a sports team. Could have absolutely fuck all to do with it but based on my family being born and raised in england is quite different to being born and raised in Scotland. I am surprised at how parochial and generally ignorant many english people are about anywhere outside england and moreover how they are perceived by other countries. Ergo is it possible that players who were born and raised down south where scottish football is belittled and patronised will not have the correct mindset to actually represent the country?

 

Anyway as for the current scotland team, wikipedia has a 'current' squad plus a list of recent call ups which can be treated as a comparison. it is also possible to pick qualifying squads from previous tournaments.

Perhaps this would be better moved to an actual thread on the scotland squad?

 

edit

Quick scan of the 'current' scotland squad plus recent call ups. only 2 players have played at under 16 level. That goes up to 4 when its under 17, and 5 at under 18.

A handful started at under 19 or under 20 but the majority started at under 21 or went straight into the squad.

Some represented england at under 18 & under 19 level.

 

As per my earlier post a large chunk of the croatian squad have played from under15s right up to the full squad. Is this merely a coincidence or a big factor in the success of their national team.

 

Iceland is the other country to consider. 1/10th population of Scotland and yet qualifying with relative ease for last 2 tournaments.

 

Its an interesting area of discussion but prob best if this did have it's own thread - I've stuck a new een up with a quick collation of the Scotland callups across our last WC qualifiers as a starting point if that's useful.

 

http://www.donstalk.co.uk/index.php/topic,19844.0.html

[manc_don]

Christ, what an ending to Group B! I left for work with 12 mins to go, Iran were unlucky not to score just before I left, but didn't expect the Spain / Morocco score at all.  Got to be one of the most open / well contested world cups in a long time.

[tlg1903]

Been a great tournament so far manc

[Kowalski]

Maradona. No class.

 

Not sure who he was given the middle fingers to there.

[manc_don]

What a second half. Nigerians should feel hard done by though, more than played their part

[baggy89]

What a second half. Nigerians should feel hard done by though, more than played their part

 

How was that any different to one awarded to Australia against Denmark by VAR. I’d argue more so because defender headed against his own arm.