St Johnstone V Aberdeen

[CtS]

People are calling for the manager to be sacked? Why? Because Stevie May’s let us down? Because Shinnie’s having a bad run of form? Or because we’ve played the whole season so far with injury/suspension problems that couldn’t have been foreseen?

We’ve maybe been lucky in previous seasons to have avoided situations like this with important players missing EVERY week, but it has caught up with us this season. But how anyone can say Heart's lead is unassailable already, after 5 games, is fucking mind blowing to me. I hope the manager doesn’t read this shite. Maybe it won’t be our year, maybe it will, I’m just relieved that the majority of the fans are level headed enough to realise we’re a work in progress - unlike some of the miserable cunts on here.

 

Aberdonians. Only happy when they’re unhappy.

[donsdaft]

Dithering and knicker flashing to the Hun last season.

 

He'd have to win the treble for folk to forget that.

[Ten Caat]

People are calling for the manager to be sacked? Why? Because Stevie May’s let us down? Because Shinnie’s having a bad run of form? Or because we’ve played the whole season so far with injury/suspension problems that couldn’t have been foreseen?

We’ve maybe been lucky in previous seasons to have avoided situations like this with important players missing EVERY week, but it has caught up with us this season. But how anyone can say Heart's lead is unassailable already, after 5 games, is fucking mind blowing to me. I hope the manager doesn’t read this shite. Maybe it won’t be our year, maybe it will, I’m just relieved that the majority of the fans are level headed enough to realise we’re a work in progress - unlike some of the miserable cunts on here.

 

Aberdonians. Only happy when they’re unhappy.

 

I said Hearts lead is ALMOST unassailable. But 9 points is already a huge lead and we play the Dhims away in 2 games time. I think it will get bigger than 9 points shortly and there is no doubt Hearts have improved whilst we have gone backwards. I stand by my assertation. They will finish above us.....

 

AS for your claim that no one could have foreseen the injury situation we have suffered. Really?? McInnes' entire signing policy appears to be predicated on signing once decent players who have suffered severe, sometimes career threatening injuries, in the hope that they will once again return to former glories. May.....looks every inch of £400k down the toilet. Hoban......Crocked after 2 games and crocked again on his return, operation this week, should be about ready to return around the same time he gets his first Xmas card. Gleeson......no huge injuries but consistently hampered with niggling injuries all his career and did have the obligatory knee ligament damage at one point, also one manager quoted as saying he looks like he has an attitude problem. Wilson....18 fucking minutes we have seen of this guy since he signed.

 

I haven't called for DM's head this season ( i did want him out in January as I did/do believe he has taken us as far as he can) but it's obvious Wiggy thinks the sun shines out of his arse. It has been a poor start to the season but as I've said elsewhere, he will be allowed one dodgy season (unless we are in relegation trouble come Feb/March but I don't think we are that bad)  in view of his moderately successful tenure and there was no doubt a big rebuilding job was on his hands in the summer. Once the training centre is open then I do believe he will become sackable although by the end of that season he will have been here 7 years and might fancy a change by then anyway.

[RicoS321]

Special mention to Willie Collum... a consistently terrible referee.

 

I actually thought Collum had a decent match at the weekend. I also thought is view of the pen - and it was definitely a pen - was obscured by one of their players moving in front of him when the incident occurred. In the end I think he had to guess, and the ref should always go with the defender in that instance (i.e. you have to actually see the pen to give it). I think Collum has vastly improved over the last couple of seasons if I'm honest. Seems to keep up with the play a lot more and takes his time over decisions where previously he would tank in flashing cairds.

 

Anyway, the dons are in a bit of a rut at the minute. They can't seem to put a consistent 11 together, and I'm not sure McInnes has decided his best 11 yet (same last season). I think that's to be expected with the new signings being not quite as hoped. Gleeson had a half decent 45 minutes, but it is very worrying that he couldn't complete the 90. It did look like he was covering more ground side to side and covering for the fullbacks too, so perhaps his tiredness is a function of him doing more work and he'll get better every week. Forrester looked like a slower, shiter, less dynamic Ferguson. A Rob Milsom type (possibly like Gleeson) who looks tidy on the ball but invariably does fuck all because he's too slow of mind to have the cutting edge. Shinnie had a poor first half but we're expecting a lot of him at the moment and I don't think we can be too quick to judge. May is currently benefiting from Wilson's injury status. He was utter pap at the weekend again. I completely understand McInnes giving him every chance to prove he can do it this season, but he's not taking that opportunity. Anderson looks a little bit 100mph when he came on and probably isn't quite there yet but he's definitely providing more than May. I think enough is enough with May now though he needs dropped for his own good. The things that he was doing well when he first arrived - getting in front of his man to take the ball from our midfield and running into the channels have now gone. He was beaten to the ball so often at the weekend it was like we were watching Maynard. He was hiding. I don't think Anderson is ready, but he'd be in the team on merit. It's a real worry that we'll have to rely on him this season.

 

Bobby, you asked why I thought we should shoe-horn Wright in even if injured and I think the game answered that one perfectly. Wright against St Mirren (I know, they were pish) was the only player who got us close enough to playing like a proper fitba team. He joined things together in that attacking midfield role between May and the rest of the team that no-one else seems capable of this season. It was slightly tongue in cheek as he's been poor more often than not, but it's increasingly looking like one of the few avenues we have left at the moment.

[BobbyBiscuit]

I actually thought Collum had a decent match at the weekend. I also thought is view of the pen - and it was definitely a pen - was obscured by one of their players moving in front of him when the incident occurred. In the end I think he had to guess, and the ref should always go with the defender in that instance (i.e. you have to actually see the pen to give it). I think Collum has vastly improved over the last couple of seasons if I'm honest. Seems to keep up with the play a lot more and takes his time over decisions where previously he would tank in flashing cairds.

 

 

The penalty incidents with McKenna in the first half - where Collum had a clear view of each of them - were terrible pieces of officiating. Particularly when Considine then took McKenna's place, as soon as he put his arm on the defender Collum blew for a foul, but it wasn't a foul the other way?  Weak refereeing and sums him up.

[RicoS321]

AS for your claim that no one could have foreseen the injury situation we have suffered. Really?? McInnes' entire signing policy appears to be predicated on signing once decent players who have suffered severe, sometimes career threatening injuries, in the hope that they will once again return to former glories. May.....looks every inch of £400k down the toilet. Hoban......Crocked after 2 games and crocked again on his return, operation this week, should be about ready to return around the same time he gets his first Xmas card. Gleeson......no huge injuries but consistently hampered with niggling injuries all his career and did have the obligatory knee ligament damage at one point, also one manager quoted as saying he looks like he has an attitude problem. Wilson....18 fucking minutes we have seen of this guy since he signed.

 

Are there career threatening injuries these days? May's injury didn't hold him back, it was the fact that he'd reached the peak of his abilities when playing for St Johnstone and couldn't cope with the step up. It was obvious that he had no further avenues for progress, even his manager at the time said that he'd put in a phenomenal amount of work to get to the point he had. Look at his game. He lacks the pace required to make him a top class attacker, so you're either going to get an off-form May or an on-form May. We've currently got an off-form one and we don't have the time or ability to make him into that on-form one again, which would require him to be at his absolute peak.

 

There are as many examples of players that return from serious injury that haven't returned. Considine had a serious leg break and returned, Devlin doesn't look troubled by his, Anderson previously had similar. Hoban's injury is different to the one he had before and seemed to come as a result of a collision or stretch or something. Being "injury-prone" isn't really a thing, you either get injured or you don't. You may have a particular injury that is re-occurring, but having once had a broken leg or knee injury doesn't make you more susceptible to a dislocated shoulder. Very few players make it through their careers without at least one bad injury, that's just the way it goes. It would be a strange signing policy that avoided players who'd once had an injury of some sort. None of Gleeson, Forrester, Hoban, Lowe, Ferguson, Ball have had careers riddled with injury of the same sort so really we're just looking at Wilson. If he was signed with an injury then that seems a little short-sighted, but given all our alternative striking options were being snapped up I can see the reasoning. Our alternative would have been to go into this season with no striking option other than May for the whole campaign and we can see from the beginning how bad an idea that would have been. I more concerned about the quality of our signings rather than the injury status.

[RicoS321]

The penalty incidents with McKenna in the first half - where Collum had a clear view of each of them - were terrible pieces of officiating. Particularly when Considine then took McKenna's place, as soon as he put his arm on the defender Collum blew for a foul, but it wasn't a foul the other way?  Weak refereeing and sums him up.

 

I didn't think either were penalties and thought Considine's was definitely a foul because he punched the ball clearly and obviously and in front of the ref. Even the ultra-partisan Red TV guys agreed with Collum there.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Are there career threatening injuries these days?

 

 

Yes.

 

May's injury didn't hold him back, it was the fact that he'd reached the peak of his abilities when playing for St Johnstone and couldn't cope with the step up. It was obvious that he had no further avenues for progress, even his manager at the time said that he'd put in a phenomenal amount of work to get to the point he had. Look at his game. He lacks the pace required to make him a top class attacker, so you're either going to get an off-form May or an on-form May. We've currently got an off-form one and we don't have the time or ability to make him into that on-form one again, which would require him to be at his absolute peak.

 

So the manager who was trying to sell him said he was doing really well?

 

There are as many examples of players that return from serious injury that haven't returned. Considine had a serious leg break and returned, Devlin doesn't look troubled by his, Anderson previously had similar. Hoban's injury is different to the one he had before and seemed to come as a result of a collision or stretch or something. Being "injury-prone" isn't really a thing, you either get injured or you don't. You may have a particular injury that is re-occurring, but having once had a broken leg or knee injury doesn't make you more susceptible to a dislocated shoulder. Very few players make it through their careers without at least one bad injury, that's just the way it goes. It would be a strange signing policy that avoided players who'd once had an injury of some sort. None of Gleeson, Forrester, Hoban, Lowe, Ferguson, Ball have had careers riddled with injury of the same sort so really we're just looking at Wilson. If he was signed with an injury then that seems a little short-sighted, but given all our alternative striking options were being snapped up I can see the reasoning. Our alternative would have been to go into this season with no striking option other than May for the whole campaign and we can see from the beginning how bad an idea that would have been. I more concerned about the quality of our signings rather than the injury status.

 

Not being funny, but have you ever had a serious/bad injury?  It can change the way your body works and puts strain on other parts of your body and you begin to pick up more injuries, certainly injuries you never used to get. So injury prone probably isn't the best term, but there is something in it.

 

I didn't think either were penalties and thought Considine's was definitely a foul because he punched the ball clearly and obviously and in front of the ref. Even the ultra-partisan Red TV guys agreed with Collum there.

 

Never suggested Considine wasn't a foul (the foul was given for his arm across the Saints player's back initially), it certainly was, but McKenna was being held by two players on both occasions.  In fairness I haven't seen them on TV, but they happened right in front of us and it was clear as day.

[tlg1903]

I'm not convinced GMS's at the end was a pen 2bh

[Lencarl]

I'm not convinced GMS's at the end was a pen 2bh

 

Watching it live I thought it was not a penalty at the time.

 

No penalty. 

[rocket_scientist]

Are there career threatening injuries these days?

 

You've obviously been lucky enough never to have suffered ligament damage. I've been lucky enough never to have broken a bone but where a broken leg can come back from e.g. Henrik Larsson, most footballers are never the same after their knee ligaments get fucked the first time.

[RicoS321]

Yes.

 

 

Sorry, I meant to say career threatening injuries that don't just end a players career. Most injuries can be recovered from these days unless age is a factor.

 

So the manager who was trying to sell him said he was doing really well?

Not sure quite what you mean here?

 

Not being funny, but have you ever had a serious/bad injury?  It can change the way your body works and puts strain on other parts of your body and you begin to pick up more injuries, certainly injuries you never used to get. So injury prone probably isn't the best term, but there is something in it.

 

Aye, heaps of them. You could probably call me injury prone! When I first broke my ankle (or maybe it was the second time) and ruptured a ligament the doctor said I probably shouldn't be playing fitba. Unless his reasoning was based on my footballing ability then he was talking utter shite (I played badly for 20 years after before another leg break). These days, there's no way a good physio will let a player put strain on their other joints in compensation for an injury (within reason). They properly build back up the affected bone or joint to the point where the player feels comfortable. There is obviously a short-term physcological issue, but that fades reasonably quickly in most players as confidence builds.

 

Never suggested Considine wasn't a foul (the foul was given for his arm across the Saints player's back initially), it certainly was, but McKenna was being held by two players on both occasions.  In fairness I haven't seen them on TV, but they happened right in front of us and it was clear as day.

 

I thought he'd given the hand ball, apologies. I think it might have been clearer from your side than the refs then. What I saw was one that looked slightly contentious, but in general it was just a case of a few strong players going for the ball and pretty consistent with how he reffed the rest of the game which he allowed to flow quite well (as much as it could with our inept first half).

[RicoS321]

You've obviously been lucky enough never to have suffered ligament damage. I've been lucky enough never to have broken a bone but where a broken leg can come back from e.g. Henrik Larsson, most footballers are never the same after their knee ligaments get fucked the first time.

 

One knee and both ankles. I haven't ruled out playing for the dons yet though.

[BobbyBiscuit]

 

Aye, heaps of them. You could probably call me injury prone! When I first broke my ankle (or maybe it was the second time) and ruptured a ligament the doctor said I probably shouldn't be playing fitba. Unless his reasoning was based on my footballing ability then he was talking utter shite (I played badly for 20 years after before another leg break). These days, there's no way a good physio will let a player put strain on their other joints in compensation for an injury (within reason). They properly build back up the affected bone or joint to the point where the player feels comfortable. There is obviously a short-term physcological issue, but that fades reasonably quickly in most players as confidence builds.

 

In some cases, that's true, in the case of Stevie May, I think it's still a factor. I had friends at the Q&A with Michael Stewart and Willie Miller before the Hibs game.  They were asked about May; Stewart said he thinks May now plays in areas where he's not going to get hurt. And to all intents and purposes, is finished at this level. Stewart had also based this on speaking to James McFadden who had a similar injury and length of time out and McFadden said that although he continued to play, he knew he was no longer capable, effectively.

 

Not that Stewart's opinion should be taken as gospel of course, but it was an interesting take on it.

[RicoS321]

In some cases, that's true, in the case of Stevie May, I think it's still a factor. I had friends at the Q&A with Michael Stewart and Willie Miller before the Hibs game.  They were asked about May; Stewart said he thinks May now plays in areas where he's not going to get hurt. And to all intents and purposes, is finished at this level. Stewart had also based this on speaking to James McFadden who had a similar injury and length of time out and McFadden said that although he continued to play, he knew he was no longer capable, effectively.

 

Not that Stewart's opinion should be taken as gospel of course, but it was an interesting take on it.

 

Aye, it's an interesting point of view like, but it doesn't really stack up with his first appearance at Pittodrie (and a few after that). On that day, he got his body in front of everything making sure the player had to come through him to get the ball. He'd run into the channels and take the outball from the fullback in similar style. He backed it up with a confident strike to win us the game. Now he's not making the runs into the channel, not linking up play and not getting in front of the defender. Perhaps his injury against the hun was a factor? It just looks more like a confidence and belief issue to me, as well as a player that probably wasn't that amazing in the first place outside a single good season at St Johnstone, rather than an injury as he definitely had something when he first joined. The rebound from GMS' shot at the weekend was it for me. Even I've played enough fitba to know that GMS was about to shoot there and I'd have been starting my run at the keeper. He was totally on his heels and looked like a player going through the motions, confidence gone. I think there is a player in May, but even in his St Johnstone days he looked like a player that was the best he was going to be. In order to be a player, we're going to need him to be at his very best. There's zero margin with May, because at 90% he's not good enough. At 70%, Rooney was still likely to bang in a goal. I think he was a bizarre signing, I've never really thought he was good enough (although I did think I'd been proven wrong after his first game for us). I think we're in agreement about May overall, just you think it's injury based pishness whereas I didn't think he was that good in the first place!

[Lencarl]

Stewart said he thinks May now plays in areas where he's not going to get hurt. And to all intents and purposes, is finished at this level. Stewart had also based this on speaking to James McFadden who had a similar injury and length of time out and McFadden said that although he continued to play, he knew he was no longer capable, effectively.

 

Agree with this. May is probably brilliant in training with his team mates, but knows inside he will come to no harm in the challenges. That's why using him as a sub will keep his game time to a minimum and maybe he will not think about getting injured and play how he used to.

 

Then again.

[Ten Caat]

One knee and both ankles. I haven't ruled out playing for the dons yet though.

 

On the contrary, if McInnes gets word of this development, there should be a 3 year contract waiting for your signature by Friday at the latest.

[Ramperbamper]

May was booed off by a small minority on Saturday. It's very evidently time for Anderson to get a shot, although I'm wary of him having the pressure on him being seen as a saviour, or if it goes the other way and he's starved of service and things don't come off for him, is he going to get the same pelters too?

 

I don't actually think we're that far off. Good amount of shots on Saturday, just missing the killer pass and penetration. The Scott Wright through the middle experiment worked well. I know St Mirren were weak that day but I think our pace, fluidity and movement that day was the primary reason. They couldn't live with us.

[Ten Caat]

 

I don't actually think we're that far off. Good amount of shots on Saturday, just missing the killer pass and penetration. The Scott Wright through the middle experiment worked well. I know St Mirren were weak that day but I think our pace, fluidity and movement that day was the primary reason. They couldn't live with us.

 

Don't think you should take that performance as a barometer of how good we could possibly be. As we now know, the St Mirren dressing room was already in meltdown mode and Stubbs had lost the confidence of the players. This new guy seems to have improved them dramatically already.

 

Wright for sure deserved to keep his place after that result but having missed a few weeks out injured, who does he replace when ready to return? McGinn is one of DM's favoured sons and GMS has probably been our most consistent performer alongside Devlin all season. May therefore would be the obvious candidate but never seen Wright play as an out and out striker, only on the wing or as that game, as a number 10 making runs at their defence from deep.

[Slim]

Wright for sure deserved to keep his place after that result but having missed a few weeks out injured, who does he replace when ready to return? McGinn is one of DM's favoured sons and GMS has probably been our most consistent performer alongside Devlin all season. May therefore would be the obvious candidate but never seen Wright play as an out and out striker, only on the wing or as that game, as a number 10 making runs at their defence from deep.

 

Forrester. Forrester was signed to be the number 10. Wright's the only other player in the squad that's capable of being effective in that position. Ferguson looks like he's better further back alongside Shinnie.

 

 

[Ten Caat]

Forrester. Forrester was signed to be the number 10. Wright's the only other player in the squad that's capable of being effective in that position. Ferguson looks like he's better further back alongside Shinnie.

 

Don't see Forrester being anything other than a bit part player unless we are really stretched with injuries. Ferguson would be in the starting line up as you say but it will be sitting in front of Shinnie and Gleeson/Ball. So severely restricts Wright's chances unless McGinn or GMS have an injury or suffer a catastrophic loss of form.

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Forrester. Forrester was signed to be the number 10. Wright's the only other player in the squad that's capable of being effective in that position. Ferguson looks like he's better further back alongside Shinnie.

 

James Wilson's best position is meant to be just off the front if you believe what Clayton Blackmore said about him when he had just joined on loan.  Need to get him fit first like.