League Cup Semi Finals

[BobbyBiscuit]

It's the notion that you should forego being treated fairly to provide that support. Does being a great supporter trump understanding when you're getting the piss taken out of you? It's always been shite, so we should continue going?

 

tlg, unless you were a camera man, then you weren't right behind the goal, you were about 40 metres away.

 

Who mentioned being a great supporter?

[tlg1903]

Don't care, still want to go.  I think AFC have reacted brilliantly throughout this whole mess and this is not the time for hissy fits.  If the club were complicit then fair enough but there's a cup final up for grabs for goodness sake. 

 

Don't do that, don't tell me how well I saw that match. Attending that game was one of the most enjoyable experiences of my life and I wouldn't swap any part of it, stadium included.

 

I say again, to everyone reading this post.  If you are able to attend this cup semi final against our most hated rival then I implore you to do so.  Quite frankly, it's pretty fucking pathetic I should even have to be posting this.

 

 

[donsdaft]

So, you think we are going to be allowed to win do you?

[RicoS321]

Who mentioned being a great supporter?

 

Nobody, apologies, it was badly phrased. The question should have been: at what point does supporting the club become more important than actually being able to see the game? For me, it occurs when you have to sit a fucking mile away*. I think the expectation on fans just to turn up regardless is a little bit like telling them to "get behind" the move to Westhill. Rather appropriately we're asking fans to behave like sheep and eschew all thinking. That's what I pretty much do as a rule, but I'm saying that my line is drawn at about section "I" at Hampden as given it's a Sunday then I won't be boozing I want to enjoy a good game of fitba. It's about watching the game for me, not just turning up because of my faith.

 

tlg, I have a lot of sympathy for that view, but I disagree that the club have acted brilliantly. I think they've tried their best (like they did with the Devlin case, and the recent statements), but I suspect that they've gone into the meeting asking for the wrong thing again. We should have had that whole North stand, or half of it with the option to leave an end empty.

 

*"The two end stands are up to 140 metres away from the pitch, due to Hampden retaining its bowl shape after it was redeveloped" (from Wikipedia - seems a little incorrect, but it's still miles).

[RicoS321]

So, you think we are going to be allowed to win do you?

 

We'll tank the hun cunts.

[BobbyBiscuit]

Nobody, apologies, it was badly phrased. The question should have been: at what point does supporting the club become more important than actually being able to see the game? For me, it occurs when you have to sit a fucking mile away*. I think the expectation on fans just to turn up regardless is a little bit like telling them to "get behind" the move to Westhill. Rather appropriately we're asking fans to behave like sheep and eschew all thinking. That's what I pretty much do as a rule, but I'm saying that my line is drawn at about section "I" at Hampden as given it's a Sunday then I won't be boozing I want to enjoy a good game of fitba. It's about watching the game for me, not just turning up because of my faith.

 

 

I do agree with you.  But what I'm saying is that this isn't a new thing, Hampden hasn't all of a sudden become a crap stadium, it has been for 20+ years.  Why has it all of a sudden become an issue and an excuse/reason not to go to a semi final?  We all know that if it was a final all the tickets would have gone by now.

 

[Ramperbamper]

It's the notion that you should forego being treated fairly to provide that support. Does being a great supporter trump understanding when you're getting the piss taken out of you? It's always been shite, so we should continue going?

 

tlg, unless you were a camera man, then you weren't right behind the goal, you were about 40 metres away.

 

As has been established, this sort of pish has been going on for decades. Folk can either chuck it, or they can use the injustice and anger in a positive way and get a siege mentality going. Heard that the latter option has worked quite well for us in the past 

[Lencarl]

As has been established, this sort of pish has been going on for decades. Folk can either chuck it, or they can use the injustice and anger in a positive way and get a siege mentality going. Heard that the latter option has worked quite well for us in the past 

 

I went through the siege mentality with the Aberdeen side in the 80's. It worked well then and it can work again. All this shit from pundits and the Scottish Media regarding our ticket allocation can work to our advantage.

[RicoS321]

I do agree with you.  But what I'm saying is that this isn't a new thing, Hampden hasn't all of a sudden become a crap stadium, it has been for 20+ years.  Why has it all of a sudden become an issue and an excuse/reason not to go to a semi final?  We all know that if it was a final all the tickets would have gone by now.

 

Aye, I see what you're saying. Finals are bigger events than semi finals? We've been dicked about with kick off times so often that it's taking it's toll? Rocket's points about us not being likely to win are definitely a really big factor. I think we could compare to the hibs game a couple of seasons back, although it was on a Saturday. The Sunday 16:30 kick off is a real barrier too (we should have insisted on the 13:30 kick off). With the kids back to school the following day, is anybody going to take them along with a post 22:00 return to Aberdeen?

 

Remember, we've sold 10K ish. That's about the level of our support who'll go to any game regardless of the difficulties in getting there/back and who we're playing. That's the saturation point of our go-at-all-cost fans. That's about the level of our season ticket holders (who won't all be going of course). Once you're beyond that point then you're into the fans who need to be sold to, the ones who need a reason to go. At that point your looking at (in no particular order):

 

1. Location/easy of access

2. Kick off time/day of game

3. Are we going to win/current form?

4. Seat allocation process

5. Available seats

6. Importance of fixture

7. Recent appearances at Hampden/familiarity of the experience

 

All these things have been lessened to the extent that we're left with a nominal number of our hard-core support. In order to prise those other folk from in front of the telly, it's no longer acceptable to just treat them like shite and say "turn up, you're a dons fan, it's your duty". We needed to do absolutely everything to make it a good experience, because all the other factors work against us. If I, as donstalk's biggest and most important super fan, with my trips to Burnley and my 1,683 amassed superfan points am saying that I wouldn't have dragged my arse down to Hampden if I couldn't have got a proper seat, then how can I/we expect those folks that don't go to every game to do it? 

[RicoS321]

As has been established, this sort of pish has been going on for decades. Folk can either chuck it, or they can use the injustice and anger in a positive way and get a siege mentality going. Heard that the latter option has worked quite well for us in the past 

 

That has to come from the club though, surely?

[Ramperbamper]

That has to come from the club though, surely?

 

Talking about the fans going to Hampden (or not). Too young to remember, but I'm sure the fans back in the 80's when we were getting dicked didn't constantly threaten to finish with Scottish football completely. Air of defiance back then rather than greeting about a bad view or the kids having school on the Monday.

 

The management and team need to foster this too though, I agree.

[CvB]

Talking about the fans going to Hampden (or not). Too young to remember, but I'm sure the fans back in the 80's when we were getting dicked didn't constantly threaten to finish with Scottish football completely. Air of defiance back then rather than greeting about a bad view or the kids having school on the Monday.

 

The management and team need to foster this too though, I agree.

 

They just didn't have a platform to air their views, so folk just stopped going. Quietly and gradually, people just walked away and found other things to do with their time.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

I don't remember there ever being a feeling of being "dicked about" over kick off times, venues and tickets in the 70's, 80's or 90's. It didn't exist. There were never these issues. Can't say I recall anything like this in the 00's either. I know it's not been too relevant this decade - unfortunately as we can count the trips to Hampden on one hand - but I'm still not any the wiser as to what the complaint is. I didn't even know there were shite view seats at Hampden, unlike where we get put at Parkhead.

 

The siege mentality referred to was SAF using the west coast media and the west coast centrism in Scottish Football as a motivator for an outsider to break down the door. It was nothing to do with victimhood and injustice about seats and kick off times etc.

 

Some fans may be invoking weak reasons for not attending, perhaps through a sense of guilt that they don't want to go. Others, like me, are quite comfortable in not wanting to go and even if I was working in Glasgow that weekend, still wouldn't bother my arse. Different folks, different strokes and different priorities at different stages of life. I'm looking more forward to watching Celtic Hibs on the telly in a pub with a couple of green mates this weekend than I am the semi final next weekend.

[A96red]

As has been established, this sort of pish has been going on for decades. Folk can either chuck it, or they can use the injustice and anger in a positive way and get a siege mentality going. Heard that the latter option has worked quite well for us in the past 

 

I think there has been a bit of a siege mentality developed within the club over the last couple of years or so.

Unfortunately , it's been developed by McInnes and his players against some....(and I stress , some) of the fans.

 

I've had the feeling a few times that he's become fairly hacked off with the negativity from some fans.

 

Seems to me that there's now very much a "them-and-us" attitude between the disgrunteld fans and the club....mostly fostered by the disgruntled fans, in my opinion. And this has spread into the rapport between the team and the fans.

 

 

[A96red]

I don't remember there ever being a feeling of being "dicked about" over kick off times, venues and tickets in the 70's, 80's or 90's. It didn't exist. There were never these issues. Can't say I recall anything like this in the 00's either. I know it's not been too relevant this decade - unfortunately as we can count the trips to Hampden on one hand - but I'm still not any the wiser as to what the complaint is. I didn't even know there were shite view seats at Hampden, unlike where we get put at Parkhead.

 

The siege mentality referred to was SAF using the west coast media and the west coast centrism in Scottish Football as a motivator for an outsider to break down the door. It was nothing to do with victimhood and injustice about seats and kick off times etc.

 

Some fans may be invoking weak reasons for not attending, perhaps through a sense of guilt that they don't want to go. Others, like me, are quite comfortable in not wanting to go and even if I was working in Glasgow that weekend, still wouldn't bother my arse. Different folks, different strokes and different priorities at different stages of life. I'm looking more forward to watching Celtic Hibs on the telly in a pub with a couple of green mates this weekend than I am the semi final next weekend.

 

For the most part I'd agree with that bit , but I can remember one major episode that , to me , was far worse than any of the recent events

 

In the 1982 Scottish Cup we were drawn against St Mirren in the semis, and very shortly after the draw Muirton Park , Perth was announced as the venue.  Perfectly logical seeing as Perth is pretty much half-way between Paisley and Aberdeen. If anything it was probably easier and quicker to get to Perth from Paisley than Aberdeen

 

Lo and behold St Mirren complain about the venue , bleating that it was unfair on their fans having to travel so far for what was a rare event for them , being in the semis.

 

So the SFA changed the venue to Parkhead. 10 miles fae Paisley , about 150 miles fae Aberdeen.

 

I've never felt it's just an Old Firm bias we've been up against....it's always been the central belt establishment.

[Barcosente]

 

 

I've had the feeling a few times that he's become fairly hacked off with the negativity from some fans.

 

Seems to me that there's now very much a "them-and-us" attitude between the disgrunteld fans and the club....mostly fostered by the disgruntled fans, in my opinion. And this has spread into the rapport between the team and the fans.

To be fair, if this the case, then McIness has only himself to blame, given the negative outlook and match tactics he foists on the team and to the supporters.

 

If fans are being negative, it's the unpleasant football diet they are being fed that's to blame.

[Lencarl]

I have know idea if we can get the siege mentality back to this club again. It starts with the club themselves growing a pair against the West Coast bias. Does this current club have this in them. I don't know. They made a start in the ticket allocation fiasco but we needed to see them fight harder for the North Stand at Hampden. Agree a lot of our fans can take it or leave it going to games now but that is down to Live TV coverage.

 

We need to take a stand even though the West Coast Media will slam the club and their fans everytime they can but nothing new in that. Here is the latest :  SunSport understands the SPFL have been far from impressed and will take it into account with allocations if Aberdeen reach the Betfred Cup Final and future semi-finals and finals.

Across the Hampden corridor the SFA will also have noted it regards the Scottish Cup.

Stand Free.

 

 

[RicoS321]

Talking about the fans going to Hampden (or not). Too young to remember, but I'm sure the fans back in the 80's when we were getting dicked didn't constantly threaten to finish with Scottish football completely. Air of defiance back then rather than greeting about a bad view or the kids having school on the Monday.

 

The management and team need to foster this too though, I agree.

 

You're missing the point. Nobody is greeting about it. They're just simply saying that they're not going. That is our current position as a club. We've got 10-12K or so supporters who will go because that's what they always do, whether at Pittodrie or away.

 

The things I listed aren't people's complaints or excuses, they are just little things that add up to ensure people aren't attracted to the fixture. We're (on this thread) making the mistake of assuming that all people that class themselves as dons fans want to go to the game as a default but are being persuaded not to by various factors. That's not what's happening. Those who go as a default (me!) are all going. Those that can take it or leave it simply aren't going - no excuses required. The point being that if we want more people going, we actually have to attract them to it not just assume that it's their duty as AFC supporters to attend because we get tickets. All of the above reasons I gave (I missed the major factor of cost too, which is exhorbitant at £30 - plus seven fucking quid for recorded delivery) make the fixture more and more unattractive. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it's a pretty unattractive fixture all in. My "blood red line" for non-attendance would simply have been having a shite seat. I'm there to watch the game, won't be getting pished as I have work the next day, so it's a no brainer that I wouldn't attend had I got a better view at home. No greeting, no excuses, just simply saying "I'm not buying the shite you're selling".

[rocket_scientist]

I think there has been a bit of a siege mentality developed within the club over the last couple of years or so.

Unfortunately , it's been developed by McInnes and his players against some....(and I stress , some) of the fans.

 

I've had the feeling a few times that he's become fairly hacked off with the negativity from some fans.

 

Seems to me that there's now very much a "them-and-us" attitude between the disgrunteld fans and the club....mostly fostered by the disgruntled fans, in my opinion. And this has spread into the rapport between the team and the fans.

 

This is nothing new. Miller and Calderwood were very open in their criticism of the fans. Unrealistic expectations was their excuse to mask the hideous performances on the pitch. Willie Miller admitted this in an AGM last decade and sought to vindicate himself by saying that "you can check with the journalists up the back, we've not said that for a while" as he wisely learnt from that particular mistake.

 

What is also not unique is moaning and it offends me when Aberdeen fans are held up as some sort of exception in this regard. The Scots are arguably towards the top of the world negativity league table but within Scotland, Aberdeen and the North East are definitely no worse than other parts of the country I could mention.

 

The need to moan is more often to be found in the downtrodden, the thick and the unfortunate. As I was driving an hour or so ago, there was a debate about smoking and I was alarmed at how vociferous the anti-smoking feelings still are. I'm not talking about the laws which were rightfully introduced to discourage people from smoking but the vile intolerance that the majority of the panel/audience towards those who smoke outside a hospital.

 

If McInnes is offended by the "disgruntlement" levels within his customer base, he either doesn't understand human nature (which includes a hell of a lot of negative cunts) or he's kidding himself about the job he's doing... and who can blame him from having a very high regard of his own abilities given how much Milne paid him last year?

 

To be fair, if this the case, then McIness has only himself to blame, given the negative outlook and match tactics he foists on the team and to the supporters.

 

If fans are being negative, it's the unpleasant football diet they are being fed that's to blame.

 

Nail. Head. Smashed.