Season 2019/2020 Rebuilding

[ayrshire_don74]

Question is if Killie finish above us does that tell us something ? On average we pay double per player per week although given the data it could be more, curiously Killie appear to have more listed first team players than us- might be more reserve/youth playing.

 

Admittedly Clarke took over in October 2017 and a lot of the signings werent his but then managed to get far more out them than Mcculloch

 

DM has won one trophy , Clarkes arguably has had 2 good seasons

[RicoS321]

Question is if Killie finish above us does that tell us something ? On average we pay double per player per week although given the data it could be more, curiously Killie appear to have more listed first team players than us- might be more reserve/youth playing.

 

Admittedly Clarke took over in October 2017 and a lot of the signings werent his but then managed to get far more out them than Mcculloch

 

DM has won one trophy , Clarkes arguably has had 2 good seasons

 

It tells us that Clarke is a better manager, but I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. Regardless of Clarke winning a trophy or not, he's done an excellent job, and he's sustained it beyond just the season that he took over, showing that it wasn't just "new manager bounce". He's significantly better than both Levein and Lennon (tbc Heckingbottom) too which suggests that it's not peculiar to McInnes.

 

The average is based on total wages/squad size so squad size not totally relevant. As I said, poor signings meant we've probably got a disproportionally expensive bench, which I don't think Killie do to the same extent.

 

I think the McCulloch - Clarke comparison is no different to the Brown - McInnes one. McInnes took us from 8th - 3rd with a lot of players from the Brown era who he just got to play better along with a few good signings (you could compare Robson with Mulumbu for example). It'll be interesting to see how Clarke gets on with re-building. I expect a lot of his signings to date have been from his recent past (watching, as well as working with). The less time he gets to watch other leagues will mean he has to rely on the Killie scouts a lot more (in the way McInnes has with us). If he has to rely on the judgement of others, I wonder it if will upset the cart a little. I don't know if he's added his own people to that area or not of course.

[Ramperbamper]

Let's see what happens next season when he is forced to rebuild and judge him properly then.

 

Absolutely this.

 

A fairer comparison might be between the first 18 months of Clarke at Killie compared to the first 18 months of McInnes at Aberdeen. We had a trophy in the bag, had shifted right up the league and progressed in Europe. All relative in terms of budgets etc but I certainly wouldn't agree that McInnes comes off second best in that context.

 

Where McInnes is percieved to have struggled is when he's lost his better players and has struggled to replace them with equivalent quality. When we signed McLean in 2015, as an example, Sevco/Hearts/Hibs were all basket case Championship clubs so we had a relatively free run at getting him. If he was a young player at St Mirren now, we'd have far more competition to sign him and would be a major coup if we did - even Celtic would probably be sniffing around as they stockpile young Scottish players (e.g Morgan)

 

As McInnes himself has alluded to - replacing Hayes and McLean at their peak with similar level replacements at their peak is difficult. The next best thing is signing guys like Ferguson and giving McLennan/Campbell etc good game time, albeit signings like Forrester have disappointed - but the idea that there's a wealth of ready made Kenny McLeans and Jonny Hayes waiting for us to come and sign which McInnes is ignoring is ridiculous. Clarke will have the same issues which McInnes has when he loses his players en masse - albeit I suspect it'll be even harder for him given Kilmarnock have a smaller budget than we do.

 

 

[manc_don]

Absolutely this.

 

A fairer comparison might be between the first 18 months of Clarke at Killie compared to the first 18 months of McInnes at Aberdeen. We had a trophy in the bag, had shifted right up the league and progressed in Europe. All relative in terms of budgets etc but I certainly wouldn't agree that McInnes comes off second best in that context.

 

Where McInnes is percieved to have struggled is when he's lost his better players and has struggled to replace them with equivalent quality. When we signed McLean in 2015, as an example, Sevco/Hearts/Hibs were all basket case Championship clubs so we had a relatively free run at getting him. If he was a young player at St Mirren now, we'd have far more competition to sign him and would be a major coup if we did - even Celtic would probably be sniffing around as they stockpile young Scottish players (e.g Morgan)

 

As McInnes himself has alluded to - replacing Hayes and McLean at their peak with similar level replacements at their peak is difficult. The next best thing is signing guys like Ferguson and giving McLennan/Campbell etc good game time, albeit signings like Forrester have disappointed - but the idea that there's a wealth of ready made Kenny McLeans and Jonny Hayes waiting for us to come and sign which McInnes is ignoring is ridiculous. Clarke will have the same issues which McInnes has when he loses his players en masse - albeit I suspect it'll be even harder for him given Kilmarnock have a smaller budget than we do.

 

Excellent post 

[BigAl]

Considine offered new contract allegedly

[KennyFuckinPowers]

And Shiinie now in Derby, holding talks with them. Been pictured at their Stadium & BBC Sport Scotland now reporting it.

[BigAl]

And Shiinie now in Derby, holding talks with them. Been pictured at their Stadium & BBC Sport Scotland now reporting it.

 

Sorry to see him go, but by fuck thats a bigger move than I thought he'd get.

Good luck to him, will go with my best wishes

[Ten Caat]

Honestly think if we were in the English Championship we would be pretty much neck and neck with Derby. Guffball is vastly overrated despite the cash.

 

Obviously if he does sign with them it will secure him financially for life. He's given us the best years of his career and should leave with everyone's best wishes.

[TheDeeDon]

Agree we need good scouts but what is "our system"? I've never seen one.

 

A fair question, but I'm fucked if I know. 

[TheDeeDon]

I'll admit I'll miss Shinnie, but if he has to go I do hope it's England.

 

One of my favourite players for a long time in the Aberdeen jersey and loved his approach and committment.

 

We haven't replaced either Mclean or Hayes yet, so not holding my breath in replacing Shinnie anytime soon and have no idea who will step up to be captain, I don't think there are many leaders in our team. I would say Logan is the strongest candidate, but I feel is wouldn't help his performaces on the pitch, which haven't been that great overall this season.

[Ten Caat]

I'll admit I'll miss Shinnie, but if he has to go I do hope it's England.

 

One of my favourite players for a long time in the Aberdeen jersey and loved his approach and committment.

 

We haven't replaced either Mclean or Hayes yet, so not holding my breath in replacing Shinnie anytime soon and have no idea who will step up to be captain, I don't think there are many leaders in our team. I would say Logan is the strongest candidate, but I feel is wouldn't help his performaces on the pitch, which haven't been that great overall this season.

 

Not even convinced Logan will be an automatic choice next season.....we tried to sign Naismith to replace him last summer. The obvious candidate would be McKenna but he might not be around much longer either so....presuming he's fit...I think we will go with Devlin.

[KennyFuckinPowers]

Apparently we tried to sign a Striker called Adam Le Fondre in the Summer last year but he opted to go to Australia, either that, or we have approached him with a view to signing him this summer, you'll need to forgive me, I saw it on Twitter so never really paid complete attention.

 

If it's the latter, then he is currently 32yo, plays for Sydney FC and has a pretty decent record from his time in England between 2007 & 2014, since then, the goals haven't been as free flowing. Has a slight tinge of Nicky Maynard about it in that it looks like a McInnes signing. Of course, it could be that we approached him last year so there is nothing in it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_le_Fondre

 

 

 

[Elgindon]

 

Shinnie almost a cert for Derby,and the Stewart to the Hun rumour looks true,@£10k per week

[manc_don]

Apparently we tried to sign a Striker called Adam Le Fondre in the Summer last year but he opted to go to Australia, either that, or we have approached him with a view to signing him this summer, you'll need to forgive me, I saw it on Twitter so never really paid complete attention.

 

If it's the latter, then he is currently 32yo, plays for Sydney FC and has a pretty decent record from his time in England between 2007 & 2014, since then, the goals haven't been as free flowing. Has a slight tinge of Nicky Maynard about it in that it looks like a McInnes signing. Of course, it could be that we approached him last year so there is nothing in it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_le_Fondre

 

 

Le Fondre knows where the goal is and scores plenty of decent goals in the aleague. Hell, i'd happily see him go back to the UK and leave those blue bastards. Remember him being good at Reading too.

[Ten Caat]

Shinnie almost a cert for Derby,and the Stewart to the Hun rumour looks true,@£10k per week

 

Just find it strange why if it were true, sevco haven't already got him on a pre-contract to stop us (who I believe are his only serious pursuers) signing him up.

 

And £10k/week is just ridiculous. He was on £6k/week at Birmingham who would have let him sign for anyone for free the past 2 years if they would cover his wages. No one was interested..... yet sevco are now not only going to match those wages but actually increase them by 66%??? I can see why sevco might have been interested in Shinnie, purely to deprive us of his services even if he wouldn't have played particularly often due to their surfeit of midfielders competing for a place. Stewart I'd presume would be used as a number 10 which they do have a need for.....but only if they completely abandon their 4/3/3 system that they've used pretty much exclusively since Gerrard was appointed.

 

As I've said before.....I'll believe it when I see it. I really hope it is true as it will prevent McInnes handing him a 3 or 4 year contract on money close to or matching his Birmingham wages.

[Elgindon]

Good source close to the club,cant name,but understand your scepticism re wages,seems mental,lets see what happens

[Slim]

Happy if Rangers sign him. If the extent of their ambition is the likes of Stewart, Kamara and Jones, they're not going to pull away from us. Unless of course we regress.

[KennyFuckinPowers]

Happy if Rangers sign him. If the extent of their ambition is the likes of Stewart, Kamara and Jones, they're not going to pull away from us. Unless of course we continue to regress.

 

[manc_don]

 

Well someone had to say it! 

[Garlogie_Granite]

, 2ish for Cosgrove,

2 pound? That's about it

[ayrshire_don74]

8 for mckenna, 2ish for Cosgrove ? seriously ? after recent displays no one will pay 8m for mckenna, guess the bevvy hasnt worn off since yesterday... 2m for cosgrove bid from a chinese club ?

[tlg1903]

2 mill was the chat through the week from Millwall.  He's under contract till 2022 so given age and potential I would say that's probably fair.

 

As for 8 Mill for McKenna well we have already turned down 6.5. 

[SeeBass]

I've just done a quick check on Loan Players we've had in over this McInnes tenure.

 

Shaleum Logan, Alan Tate, Michael Hector (2013)

Jeffrey Monakana, Donervon Daniels (2014)

Danny Ward, Ryan McLaughlin, Adam Collin, Simon Church, Josh Parker (2015)

Wes Burns, James Maddison, Ryan Christie (2016)

Freddie Woodman, Chidi Nwakali, Greg Stewart, Dominic Ball, "Kenny McLean", Ryan Christie again!! (2017)

Tommie Hoban, Max Lowe, James Wilson, Greg Stewart once more!!, Dominic Ball for another season!! (2018)

 

TWENTY ONE DIFFERENT PLAYERS WHICH IRONICALLY AMOUNTS TO THREE AND A HALF PLAYERS A SEASON BECAUSE SOME OF THEM PROBABLY ONLY HALF A PLAYER IN REALITY!!!

 

I'm not saying this is to blame for anything but when you include below disaster zone also it pretty embarrassing stuff to say the least.

 

Calvin Zola, Gregg Wylde (2014)

Scott Brown, Andrew Driver (2014-15)

Joe Nutall, Aaron Lennox (2015-16)

Jayden Stockley, Anthony O'Connor, Callum Morris, Miles Storey (2016-2017)

Greg Tansey, Nicky Maynard (2017-18)

Chris Forrester, Stephen Gleeson, Jordan McGregor (2018-19)

 

 

[ayrshire_don74]

very much doubt we turned down that amount.. spin from club  and i guess you are making figures up re cosgrove... god help us if we get that money and give it to DM

[Guest kiriakovisthenewstrachan]

Hope you are right TLG if indeed these players were to leave but your figures look pretty optimistic given what players up here normally go for outwith Celtic/Rangers/Sevco.

 

If we lost all three in the summer I'd expect to we would get something like £4M for McKenna, half a mil for Lewis and between half and a million for Big Sam.  English clubs just don't pay big bucks for players outwith the Glasgow teams.  Good thing is that sell on clauses are becoming the norm and we can maybe start to cash in on players as they move on further down the line like Fraser might.