Coronavirus

[OrlandoDon]

I’ve replied twice and then delete it because I don’t want to get involved in this type of argument. It drives me crazy hearing people blame the anti vaxxers. I hear that regularly from joe Biden and he’s doing his best to ruin the US, including pulling people apart when we should be bringing people together. I also don’t know what it’s like in the UK but it’s so political over here, it’s disgusting. The majority of people I hear in the news getting the newest strain are vaccinated. But I don’t watch the news much now because it’s not really news any more, it’s agenda. We don’t get full transparency, but what do I know. 

It’s such a complex issue, and I’ll even throw out the objectives of government when you hear Pfizer has earned $33 billion to date from Covid, and they help finance government. Big pharma benefits from Covid, and there’s a reason you aren’t hearing much of alternative treatments. Anyone who speakers out against vaccines is a conspiracy theorist, anti vaxxer etc when all we want if full and clear information. The vaccine also damages and kills people but that’s getting shut down instead of acknowledged and studied. Why? 

Covid isn’t going away, everyone isn’t getting vaccinated, and everyone can spread. We need to learn to live with it without turning on each other. If you believe vaccinations keep you healthy get them, if you don’t don’t. I don’t believe in mandates, segregation, and lockdowns but some do. They don’t help culture and societies. Sad times.

I have got involved in the obesity argument too. Covid thrives on fat cells. Why aren’t we educating people on how to be healthier? That doesn’t benefit government and big pharma. Just saying. I’m also as much concerned about the mental health issue, substance abuse, suicides etc,  all are through the roof. Mandates, forcing the vaccines, and blaming each other are simply dividing people are making all of those situations worse.

[HaarDon]

12 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

I've had three doses of Pfizer, if it helps the discussion.

If you're not discussing herd immunity then why not? If your government is putting arbitrary figures on when/when not to allow people to travel, then why on earth would you accept that without questioning those arbitrary figures?

The lack of nuance and critical thinking in your argument is disturbing. 

Your lack of data and inanity is uncompelling to me.

Such incomprehension and stubborness in your reply is redolent of a Walkers crisp I used to scoff at.

Your childish rejection of my highly plausible arguments reminds me that you are of Scrotifera quality and I regard your immature thoughts with enormous contempt.

It's quite apparent that future interactions with you shall be determinable with disregard since you have traduced most of my posts.

Your unawareness of your own inadequacies are intipodal and fraught with neglect in relation to my self-efficacy and love for humankind.

Say baaaaahhhhhh.

 

[Jute]

Positive test today for me. Feels like a slight head cold so far. Ten days of sitting on my arse is more likely to be the issue. 

[RicoS321]

21 minutes ago, Jute said:

Positive test today for me. Feels like a slight head cold so far. Ten days of sitting on my arse is more likely to be the issue. 

At least you got the party season over and done with. You'll be able to sit all day pressing refresh on the BBC pages waiting for the first big signing to come through.

[Jute]

4 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

At least you got the party season over and done with. You'll be able to sit all day pressing refresh on the BBC pages waiting for the first big signing to come through.

So no change to normal then. 

[manc_don]

Have almost replied and deleted my response a number of times. Latest was Boxing Day when I thought it wasn’t a suitable day given my response .

 

I personally hate anti-vaxxers. Always have, and always will. They’re selfish and always deem their freedom above others more important without the slightest hint of considering those in society who actually have no choice. I blame them for a lot of the issues of division here in NZ, they’ve put themselves ahead of the greater good. Waiting for something better? Wake the fuck up. The reason my parents haven’t been able to meet their grandkids is all on them. Flaunting rules, causing spreading events and delaying the govt from being able to open up. They’ve been fortunate to live off the rest of us here and benefit from the freedoms we’ve earned. Get them all in the sea. 
 

here, it’s fuck all to do with politics, more so to with if you’re a good cunt or just a selfish cunt. 
 

as a side, it doesn’t surprise me the anti vaxxers are anti-5G, anti climate change and pro conspiracy theorists. It’s their level of brain function. Calling themselves pure bloods how pathetic. 

[HaarDon]

On 04/01/2022 at 11:00, manc_don said:

Have almost replied and deleted my response a number of times. Latest was Boxing Day when I thought it wasn’t a suitable day given my response .

 

I personally hate anti-vaxxers. Always have, and always will. They’re selfish and always deem their freedom above others more important without the slightest hint of considering those in society who actually have no choice. I blame them for a lot of the issues of division here in NZ, they’ve put themselves ahead of the greater good. Waiting for something better? Wake the fuck up. The reason my parents haven’t been able to meet their grandkids is all on them. Flaunting rules, causing spreading events and delaying the govt from being able to open up. They’ve been fortunate to live off the rest of us here and benefit from the freedoms we’ve earned. Get them all in the sea. 
 

here, it’s fuck all to do with politics, more so to with if you’re a good cunt or just a selfish cunt. 
 

as a side, it doesn’t surprise me the anti vaxxers are anti-5G, anti climate change and pro conspiracy theorists. It’s their level of brain function. Calling themselves pure bloods how pathetic. 

Agree 100% manc.

Said the same thing but had opposition. You , however won't hear a thing from anyone I'd say.

 

 

 

 

[LA-Don]

9 hours ago, HaarDon said:

Agree 100% manc.

Said the same thing but had opposition. You , however won't hear a thing from anyone I'd say.

 

 

 

 

What kind of response are you wanting? People have responded before, they just don't share your views. It's like you want a fight but others don't want to fight or name call. We're a bunch of strangers on line with a common interest, discussing something very political. That gets ugly. I don't want to fight with strangers. You can respectfully agree or disagree, your call.

I can only give a perspective of someone who lives in the states. Covid is political. I have not received any covid vaccine and will not until all my questions are answered. Or never. I'm not a crazy anti-vaxxer but I'm sure the crazy name calling will come.

If a really new cool car came on the market that was sold as very cheap, sexy, ultra safe, and good for the environment (a car for the greater good!) people would buy it. But if it started to break down, blow up, and kill people in accidents, it would be recalled and taken off the market. While the vaccine has saved lives, it has taken lives. Why is it not taken off the market?

I know people who have died from it and I know people that have been damaged by it. Research Dr Danice Hertz in Santa Monica, a doctor who got the vaccine because it was the right thing to do. She has been damaged but now shunned and outcast by the medical community and is now campaigning world wide for fully vaccine transparency. Listen to Eric Clapton talk about it, even Jeremy Chardy. They are public figures whose careers have been ended by the vaccine. I actually think listening to Joe Rogan of all people is of interest. Listen to doctors who talk about the problems with vaccines. Why are they all being discredited and being told they are spreading misinformation? They are educated and qualified people too. Listen to the doctors who developed the mRNA vaccine too, they have concerns.

When I hear government tell me the vaccine is safe I know they are lying. They won't tell you about major side effects. Indeed, when you ask they are like you, you are jumped on, punished, and treated like criminals. Talk to the people who got the J&J vaccine and were told it was safe, and then developed blood clots. It's now not recommended because, infact, it's not safe. 

We are not getting full medical transparency, and all info. My wife works with doctors who are working with vaccine damaged patients. These people are being shut out and not heard. These people are being told they are the misinformation spreaders and being blocked from twitter, youtube, facebook etc. Those sharing the alternative story to the one the government is pushing are being shut down and cancelled.

Why is our media being censored? Do you believe you are getting accurate and real news or are you being told a story that fits an agenda? I don't believe I'm being given all the real information to make an informed decision about getting a vaccine. It is, after all, an irreversible medical procedure.

My life has been completely changed due to this vaccine. I'm about to lose my job over it, and my son has been kicked out of school because HIS PARENTS aren't vaccinated. That's fucked up. My live is severely limited in what I can do and where I can go. I'm relocating to Florida because I believe in their stance of how to live your life.

My sister died of cancer in November. She was 50 and I'm actually 49 today. This is my second sibling to die of cancer. There are reports that cancer patients in remission have seen cancer return after being vaccinated. My sisters treatment stopped working right after she was vaccinated. Coincidence? I honestly don't know but there is simply not enough studies/evidence of the covid vaccine and cancer to reassure me that it doesn't stimulate cancer in any way. My sister left behind a husband, and two boys 11 and 13. I have a wife, a 3 and 6 year old. I'm, not willing to put any of my families lives at risk when I simply don't know enough about this vaccine. Nobody does, it's too new. Nobody can tell me long term side effects and consequences.

We are now seeing the vaccine pushed to kids when if you follow the science and look at studies and evidence, kids are at more risk being injured and dying in a car accident than being injured and dying of covid. That's fucked up but why is this happening?

We are still not being told 100% factually where covid came from. Why? If this is that big an issue we would know. What are we not being told?

We are obsessed with covid cases when that is not the issue. The issue is severity of covid. The vast majority of cases now are minor symptoms. It 's winter, cold and flu season, everyone gets sick in winter. Old people and compromised people die every winter. I don't believe the situation right now is much different to other winters, everyone gets runny noses, coughs, colds etc. yet we are obsessed with covid and listen to government tell us how to live.

You can name call and tell me I'm a fucking lunatic. I got that just over a year ago when I said Trump was a better alternative than the democrats, even though Trump was a lunatic. I think I'm proven right given how the last year has passed, and I think I am right again with covid. While covid vaccine has saved lives, it has taken lives. We should be educating people on healthy lifestyles and how to live better, and live with covid. That's the smart thing to do. But those trying to treat covid with alternative methods are being shut out. Why? Getting everyone healthy and making their own choices doesn't benefit government, or big pharma. For what it's worth, America requires more vaccines that any other modern country in the world - is that because we are the smartest? The healthiest? Or the greediest? 

Pfizer has made over $33 billion off covid as I've said before. The government doesn't do anything for the people. It's a business obsessed with power, money, greed, and control. If it was about health the vaccine info would have been shared worldwide immediately, it was not. We wouldn't have an open southern border with unvaccinated and untested illegals coming in if it was abut health. This goes on and on.

I'm not a crazy anti-vaxxer, pushing flat earth, believing in microchips in vaccines etc. I just think we don't know enough to make an informed decision. If you believe you have all info and it's the right thing to do then get the vaccine, good for you. But I do believe given the newness and the lack of full transparency, it should be a choice.

 

 

[LA-Don]

It's not letting me edit. One last thing. The story keeps changing. It's now my understanding that the vaccinated can catch covid, spread covid, and even booster you can do both. Getting a vaccine is now being sold that it means I won't get so sick. Why am I then being selfish if it's now only about me and my level of sickness? Isn't that personal choice?

However, how do we know that? How do we know that the vaccine prevents severe illness? Where are the extensive test cases/trials? There are none because we don't fully understand each variant. The goalposts keep moving.

 

[sancho_panza]

32 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

Getting a vaccine is now being sold that it means I won't get so sick. Why am I then being selfish if it's now only about me and my level of sickness? Isn't that personal choice?

The vaccines do both - they reduce the chance of catching/spreading the virus and they reduce the severity if you do catch it. Getting vaccinated is a bit like giving your body a bunch of weapons/information to help it fight off an infection. It increases the ability of your body's defences but it doesn't make you invincible.

What you're arguing here is that there's some crucial distinction between the ability of a vaccine to prevent infection completely and the ability of a vaccine to reduce the severity of an infection but the reality is that those are both determined by the same thing (how effective your body is at fighting the infection) and that's what the vaccine improves.

[LA-Don]

39 minutes ago, sancho_panza said:

The vaccines do both - they reduce the chance of catching/spreading the virus and they reduce the severity if you do catch it. Getting vaccinated is a bit like giving your body a bunch of weapons/information to help it fight off an infection. It increases the ability of your body's defences but it doesn't make you invincible.

What you're arguing here is that there's some crucial distinction between the ability of a vaccine to prevent infection completely and the ability of a vaccine to reduce the severity of an infection but the reality is that those are both determined by the same thing (how effective your body is at fighting the infection) and that's what the vaccine improves.

I understand what you are saying but I don't believe there is evidence to prove any of this with the covid vaccine. Clinical trials were rushed and steps skipped, that's documented and available to the public too, although I'm believe educated people and doctors who are telling me that. Even with full FDA approval that process was fast tracked and steps skipped. There is very limited documentation and research available to the public and there's a reason govt/big pharma wants these records sealed for 55 years. I believe that is presently being fought in court.

We're being told to believe government and people like Fauci here over in the states but the story keeps changing. There's even little real evidence and factual studies to prove masks work.

The overall effectiveness of these vaccines is highly debatable with each coming strand, hence the boosters and talk of more jabs. Clearly the vaccines have benefitted some but not others which again leads me to the point I get slammed for. There's enough doubt, censorship, and questioning to validate vaccine hesitancy and push back. 

[RicoS321]

20 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

I understand what you are saying but I don't believe there is evidence to prove any of this with the covid vaccine. Clinical trials were rushed and steps skipped, that's documented and available to the public too, although I'm believe educated people and doctors who are telling me that. Even with full FDA approval that process was fast tracked and steps skipped. There is very limited documentation and research available to the public and there's a reason govt/big pharma wants these records sealed for 55 years. I believe that is presently being fought in court.

We're being told to believe government and people like Fauci here over in the states but the story keeps changing. There's even little real evidence and factual studies to prove masks work.

The overall effectiveness of these vaccines is highly debatable with each coming strand, hence the boosters and talk of more jabs. Clearly the vaccines have benefitted some but not others which again leads me to the point I get slammed for. There's enough doubt, censorship, and questioning to validate vaccine hesitancy and push back. 

You're mixing up two things here though. There is a lot of data in the public domain from Europe, Israel and Asia (and US of course) that shows the efficacy of vaccination. It does reduce the risk of hospitalisation and death and also the reduces your ability to infect others. It does so in exactly the manner it was suggested it would. The evidence to back this up is provided by the fact that you need a booster after the effects wear off after 6 months.

There was never any data that suggested you couldn't transmit covid having been vaccinated and hasn't been intimated since very early in the vaccination process (as soon as the data was available, it was clear that covid could still be transmitted despite vaccination). It's frustrating that people are still perpetuating the myth, and it almost always seems to be from people saying "you told us we couldn't pass on covid, what's the point in vaccination?", rather than from people advocating vaccination. It's basic straw man arguing, and it's deliberate. They throw up a "fact" and cite as evidence of manipulation or change, when it's not the case.

By getting vaccinated, you reduce the likelihood of infecting others, you are not - for the most part if you're healthy - doing it to protect yourself. I think if you test yourself regularly, wear a mask indoors, socially distance among those you don't know and let those you do, know your vaccine status I think that's just as good as getting vaccinated in the main. I think forcing people to get vaccinated is wrong. It doesn't prevent spread (it slows it), and there is no value at which herd immunity from covid can be established. Our antipodean friends putting arbitrary percentages on the number of people who need to be vaccinated before certain measures are lifted is demonstrably bollocks, and it is their governments who should be held to account for this and not the minority of people who have chosen not to be vaccinated.

[LA-Don]

29 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

You're mixing up two things here though. There is a lot of data in the public domain from Europe, Israel and Asia (and US of course) that shows the efficacy of vaccination. It does reduce the risk of hospitalisation and death and also the reduces your ability to infect others. It does so in exactly the manner it was suggested it would. The evidence to back this up is provided by the fact that you need a booster after the effects wear off after 6 months.

There was never any data that suggested you couldn't transmit covid having been vaccinated and hasn't been intimated since very early in the vaccination process (as soon as the data was available, it was clear that covid could still be transmitted despite vaccination). It's frustrating that people are still perpetuating the myth, and it almost always seems to be from people saying "you told us we couldn't pass on covid, what's the point in vaccination?", rather than from people advocating vaccination. It's basic straw man arguing, and it's deliberate. They throw up a "fact" and cite as evidence of manipulation or change, when it's not the case.

By getting vaccinated, you reduce the likelihood of infecting others, you are not - for the most part if you're healthy - doing it to protect yourself. I think if you test yourself regularly, wear a mask indoors, socially distance among those you don't know and let those you do, know your vaccine status I think that's just as good as getting vaccinated in the main. I think forcing people to get vaccinated is wrong. It doesn't prevent spread (it slows it), and there is no value at which herd immunity from covid can be established. Our antipodean friends putting arbitrary percentages on the number of people who need to be vaccinated before certain measures are lifted is demonstrably bollocks, and it is their governments who should be held to account for this and not the minority of people who have chosen not to be vaccinated.

As you say, I test regularly which I do weekly, I wear a mask (to keep others happy) even though I highly question the effectiveness of it, and I socially distance even though there question marks about how far etc too. I also exercise, monitor my diet, take vitamins etc., don't smoke, limit sugar intake. I do a lot for my health, and my families health, and that affects others health. But there are so many who call me selfish and want me to care for them when they don't care for themselves. There's plenty of wreckless people out there, vaccinated and unvaccinated. There's idiots on both sides and you can throw any idiot into a media situation and they'll prove your argument. I don't understand those who drive cars alone wearing masks, that's like going to bed alone wearing a condom.....just in case. 

It's too early to say how effective these vaccines and boosters are, everything is short term right now, and we keep seeing new strains. But my concern is long term, I'm not interested in quick fix. In the vaccine formation process every sample size and study was limited, rushed, even skipped through steps. This situation is being used to divide people, and it's ugly. And sad. We won't know the real effects of covid or the vaccines until years from now. I just hope neither side faces long term damage.

Anyone has a platform and anyone puts information out there, and so many can seem educated, qualified, and credible. Who do we believe? Who is the one producing fake news? We know our governments lie and they sensor the news. How does that help us make educated and informed decisions?

I'm not anti vax but when I had my kids I was told they would need something like 50 shots before they start school. It may even have been before the age of 3, I can't remember. They also wanted to shoot my baby up multiple times at once. That led me to ask questions. I also asked my family in Scotland and England, and the US asks for way more vaccines than the UK. It led me to reading what is in vaccines, how vaccines are combined, the effects of mercury on a babies brain for example. I also read some of the studies to produce vaccines and the steps they go through. My neighbor has 3 kids all with autism.......is it coincidence that with the increase in vaccines we see more autism? The US has the most vaccinated kids and is the autism capital of the world. It just makes me wonder, are we fully researching and studying what we pump into people or just rushing things through to make money?

The vaccine industry here is minimally regulated, and you get drugs on the market that have had very little testing. People just take them. They believe their doctor.......a doctor who can be a fully licensed doctor with approx 6 months of vaccine training i believe, who has their salary paid by a hospital who is primarily funded by big pharma. They are pushed and I believe financially incentivized to give vaccines. I'm a teacher but I cannot teach every age and every subject, just like a doctor knows very little about many medical topics. Yet so many believe their doctor without question. A doctor whose salary is paid by big pharma. Big pharma who funds govt. You can also look at those high up in both big pharma and govt and see relationships, party, and family ties. It's scary the more you look.

This makes me sound a total conspiracy theorist I know, but I think big pharma, govt., and covid is one huge ugly fucking mess and public health is not ultimately the concern. If it was, we would not be forcing and mandating vaccines, we would have a very different approach. We would be focused on public health, connection, support, and bringing people together (as Biden campaigned for!) Our president here continues to blame the unvaccinated and predicts a winter of death for us.......very encouraging, supportive and uniting.

[Elgindon]

I feel sorry for the doctors and nurses,eg in the NHS,who after they/we committed ourmselves to the Covid jab,( I think the majority of us initially did) are now seeing the adverse reactions fallout post vaccine,...but at the same time,the doctors/nurses are having to make the effort to maintain the confidence of the public in the vaccine.

   What none of us were made aware of at the time the jabs came out,was the FDA list of possible adverse event outcomes related to the vaccine such as we're seeing now,eg Mio and Pericarditis,Guillame Barre syndrome. Over 1m adverse events recorded to date. Wheres the informed consent? Assuming those figures are correct,how can anyone be critical of folks who want to look at alternative ways to combat the virus? If youre fit and under 40,(and with a 95% Covid survival rate) , if you take the right things to prime your immune system,eg Vit C,Vit D,Quercetin,Magnesium and Zinc,along with having eg Ivermectin/Melatonin or Nasal/throat sprays at hand,why would anyone argue with someone preferring to take that route?  

  Why the push for kids,esp in the US,to get vaxxed when 99.5% of them will recover from Covid. The risks from the jab far outweigh the benefits in their case IMO.eg chances of Miocarditis increase manyfold versus adults due to undeveloped organs/immune systems. 

  Why the,what appears to be a, concerted effort to silence/censor doctors for administering alternatives that appear to be effective. This guy gave 3 elderly patients,who were failing with Covid,Ivermectin after they asked for it.All 3(2 in their 70s,one 95) started improving in less than a day,and have all now recovered. He was dismissed as a result. (Ignore the Nuremberg shite in the clip) Canadian Doctor Suspended for treating Covid patients (rumble.com)

  Another Suspended Texas doctor who promoted ivermectin as Covid treatment resigns from hospital (nbcnews.com)

   

   

Edited January 5, 2022 by Elgindon

[Kowalski]

[RicoS321]

2 hours ago, Elgindon said:

What none of us were made aware of at the time the jabs came out,was the FDA list of possible adverse event outcomes related to the vaccine such as we're seeing now,eg Mio and Pericarditis,Guillame Barre syndrome. Over 1m adverse events recorded to date. Wheres the informed consent? Assuming those figures are correct,how can anyone be critical of folks who want to look at alternative ways to combat the virus? If youre fit and under 40,(and with a 95% Covid survival rate) ,

  Why the push for kids,esp in the US,to get vaxxed when 99.5% of them will recover from Covid. The risks from the jab far outweigh the benefits in their case IMO.eg chances of Miocarditis increase manyfold versus adults due to undeveloped organs/immune systems. 

It's obviously not all about the risk to just the under forties, but who they contact. The risk of all of the illnesses you state is negligible, and all are risks associated with COVID-19 too. In the u40s there is a 5 in 1 million increase of myocarditis after second dose of Pfizer (all other illnesses are increased by a COVID infection. Similar to LA Don's tragic family death he mentions above - the risk to a cancer patient from covid is far greater than the associated vaccination risk. Given that the argument is that we don't take vaccines (optional), increasing the speed of spread, without herd immunity there is - then - an assumption that everyone will get covid at some point. That means you can't look at vaccination risk on its own, ever. It always has to be looked at against getting covid. All in, I'd weigh up a slight increased risk in myocarditis versus passing on to someone else genuinely at risk and probably take the vaccine. I'd likely give any child over 14 those statistics and trust them to make their own decision. I'm not sure about under 14s, but once the yank kids have all been injected we'll know better!

 

3 hours ago, Elgindon said:

if you take the right things to prime your immune system,eg Vit C,Vit D,Quercetin,Magnesium and Zinc,along with having eg Ivermectin/Melatonin or Nasal/throat sprays

I'd say this has far less medical efficacy than vaccination. "Priming your immune system" seems mighty suspicious to me. Certainly vitamins are a fairly contentious bag. I'm with Tim Spector on this one:

Vitamins

I'm interested in ivermectin, I'm really not sure either way. I didn't like the way it was portrayed in the media (horse drug) which immediately makes you suspicious of the motives of those talking it down. I have a feeling that the eventual answer to whatever version of covid we're left with will require a medicine rather than a vaccine as nobody will be arsed taking a fourth booster and it'll be interesting to see if ivermectin is in the mix.

[HaarDon]

Told ya nobody would quote manc . Cowards.

And we can't really take anything Americans say seriously when they voted Trump into power. I mean come on.

Elgin, getting kids vaccinated isn't just about kids getting covid. It's also about the virus not spreading especially through schools.

What's the point of teachers getting vaccinated if kids aren't.

So multi vitamins is the way to go?

Do pharmaceutical firms not get billions from these? 

Where's the proof that these help your lives?

Not once in my life has a doctor referred me to multi vitamins of any sort.theyte like fa ial creams to make you look younger. Utter bollocks.

Do you know what they put in these?

Any long term effects?

There are flaws in every government but all these conspiracy theories dont add up.

The amount of money pharmaceutical companies around the world are receiving is nothing compared to the loss of trillions that countries( governments) are losing from lack of public spending, exports and imported goods as well as the cost of buying in vaccines and test kits.

I'm sure nobody who gets vaccinated says 'oh yesssss please'.

But it has been proven to reduce drastically, the spread of covid and save potentially hundreds of thousands (indeed MILLIONS of lives.)

And it's also very obvious that particles of a covid infected person would be hugely inhibited by wearing a mask.(I don't need a doctor to tell me this.)

I suspect I have covid as I've been ill for 7 days now and I think I know exactly who I got it from as I've hardly been out.

Speculation of course but when you're doing the right things (wearing masks, washing hands, hand sanitising, social distancing etc) and some selfish cunt (and they ARE cunts) stands next to me or passes by me and is going about his own business and not giving a fuck about anyone, then I think I have every right to criticise him/her/them.

There will always be cases in the world where someone had a clot, adverse medical problems, underlying medical conditions etc and I feel very sorry for them if affected by the vaccine.

But the fact is, the vaccine has and is saving lives.The figures for deaths with the vax and lives saved with the vax are incomparable.

Look at how many people died in the first year of covid worldwide.

And Djokovic is an attention seeking, lying arsehole.

He was always coming to the Australian Open.(Though I've just heard his visa has been cancelled)

I recently read that faecal transplants are the future by the way.

Gut health can be improved apparently with the faeces of someone else's gut bacteria taken, through a pill.

My point about how we don't know what we put in our bodies everyday from large stores produce could also be a non vaxxers concern yet we don't hear them shouting about that much do we?

Preservatives, sugars, bacteria, flavouring, acid (especially in Pepsi Max which I'm sure has given me stomach problems for years as a result of having consumed it off and on for a while.)

I think it's an interesting discussion and has without doubt divided people but not that much.

Its not like a hung parliament here.

Huge majorities for vaccination don't spilt nations and its not just a simple choice of get it or don't.

For me it's about togetherness and respect by getting the vaccine.i don't see people dropping like flies because they're vaccinated but I read and hear about tens of thousands of people 'dropping like flies' due to covid.

The local government here have totally fucked up and so has Morrison.

 

 

 

 

[scotfree]

This thread...

 

[LA-Don]

40 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

Told ya nobody would quote manc . Cowards.

And we can't really take anything Americans say seriously when they voted Trump into power. I mean come on.

Elgin, getting kids vaccinated isn't just about kids getting covid. It's also about the virus not spreading especially through schools.

What's the point of teachers getting vaccinated if kids aren't.

So multi vitamins is the way to go?

Do pharmaceutical firms not get billions from these? 

Where's the proof that these help your lives?

Not once in my life has a doctor referred me to multi vitamins of any sort.theyte like fa ial creams to make you look younger. Utter bollocks.

Do you know what they put in these?

Any long term effects?

There are flaws in every government but all these conspiracy theories dont add up.

The amount of money pharmaceutical companies around the world are receiving is nothing compared to the loss of trillions that countries( governments) are losing from lack of public spending, exports and imported goods as well as the cost of buying in vaccines and test kits.

I'm sure nobody who gets vaccinated says 'oh yesssss please'.

But it has been proven to reduce drastically, the spread of covid and save potentially hundreds of thousands (indeed MILLIONS of lives.)

And it's also very obvious that particles of a covid infected person would be hugely inhibited by wearing a mask.(I don't need a doctor to tell me this.)

I suspect I have covid as I've been ill for 7 days now and I think I know exactly who I got it from as I've hardly been out.

Speculation of course but when you're doing the right things (wearing masks, washing hands, hand sanitising, social distancing etc) and some selfish cunt (and they ARE cunts) stands next to me or passes by me and is going about his own business and not giving a fuck about anyone, then I think I have every right to criticise him/her/them.

There will always be cases in the world where someone had a clot, adverse medical problems, underlying medical conditions etc and I feel very sorry for them if affected by the vaccine.

But the fact is, the vaccine has and is saving lives.The figures for deaths with the vax and lives saved with the vax are incomparable.

Look at how many people died in the first year of covid worldwide.

And Djokovic is an attention seeking, lying arsehole.

He was always coming to the Australian Open.(Though I've just heard his visa has been cancelled)

I recently read that faecal transplants are the future by the way.

Gut health can be improved apparently with the faeces of someone else's gut bacteria taken, through a pill.

My point about how we don't know what we put in our bodies everyday from large stores produce could also be a non vaxxers concern yet we don't hear them shouting about that much do we?

Preservatives, sugars, bacteria, flavouring, acid (especially in Pepsi Max which I'm sure has given me stomach problems for years as a result of having consumed it off and on for a while.)

I think it's an interesting discussion and has without doubt divided people but not that much.

Its not like a hung parliament here.

Huge majorities for vaccination don't spilt nations and its not just a simple choice of get it or don't.

For me it's about togetherness and respect by getting the vaccine.i don't see people dropping like flies because they're vaccinated but I read and hear about tens of thousands of people 'dropping like flies' due to covid.

The local government here have totally fucked up and so has Morrison.

 

 

 

 

What was the manc quote???

I don't know where you live but it's definitely divided people here. Biden himself is dividing people and blaming the unvaccinated. And segregation is pushed here in places. It's also been proven from what I understand, that due to the size of covid particles the vast majority of masks are useless.

We should worry about the group of people who are vulnerable to covid. Everyone is not in the same situation. Kids are not an issue. As I said before, kids statistically have more chance of getting hurt or killed in car accidents. Why is this such an issue? Or why not ban car travel....

Covid stats are flawed. Without doubt people have died but over here for example, you could have covid with no symptoms and a month later die in a car accident. Recorded as a covid death since you're in the system as having covid. Any possible link to covid was called covid and a covid death for the longest time. 

You've never been told by a doctor to eat healthily, exercise, and take vitamins? I'd find a new doctor if not. They should promote healthily lifestyles, not just deal with after the fact problems.

The real numbers to me are covid deaths of people with uncompromised systems, plus the age of people. How many have died of pure covid alone? For kids under 12 alone, I heard that number (and this was about 2 months ago) was less than 20.

You are correct, it's about togetherness and respect. And that's not vaccine or fuck off, there are other means to deal with this that don't involve the risk of emergency and unproven drugs.

[HaarDon]

If you die in a car accident I'm pretty sure most times it'll be because you've crashed into a tree at 90kms an hour or another vehicle.

 

19 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

You've never been told by a doctor to eat healthily, exercise, and take vitamins?

I only mentioned never being told to have multi vitamins.

The doctors advice has ALWAYS been alternative methods to multi vitamins such as exercise and a health diet.

21 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

You are correct, it's about togetherness and respect. And that's not

...fuck everyone else, I'm not getting vaccinated to protect the community and my family and to get back to some sort of normality (eg living with covid as best we can.)

[OrlandoDon]

8 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

...fuck everyone else, I'm not getting vaccinated to protect the community and my family and to get back to some sort of normality (eg living with covid as best we can.)

So it’s about togetherness and respect provided everyone agrees with you. Gotcha. 

[HaarDon]

12 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

So it’s about togetherness and respect provided everyone agrees with you. Gotcha. 

Did you actually read and understand what you quoted above?

My point is everyone agreeing about what's best for each community and each countries' citizens.

You are part of the problem and in a massive minority.

Anti-vaxers are dying out like a disease ...similar to certain variants of covid thank fuck.

Get over yourselves and do what's right for everyone not just you.

I caught covid because of selfish bastards. Simple.

I'm done with this now.

There's just zero point talking about it anymore.

It's not my job to try and give people a conscience.

 

[HaarDon]

So, no vaccine has caused chronic conditions to emerge years or decades later, says Robert Jacobson, medical director of the population health science program at the Mayo Clinic. “Study after study have looked for this with all sorts of vaccines, and have not found it to be the case,” he says.

[LA-Don]

1 hour ago, HaarDon said:

Did you actually read and understand what you quoted above?

My point is everyone agreeing about what's best for each community and each countries' citizens.

You are part of the problem and in a massive minority.

Anti-vaxers are dying out like a disease ...similar to certain variants of covid thank fuck.

Get over yourselves and do what's right for everyone not just you.

I caught covid because of selfish bastards. Simple.

I'm done with this now.

There's just zero point talking about it anymore.

It's not my job to try and give people a conscience.

 

So what I am hearing is that you are taking your ball and going home because people won't play your game and make you captain. That's the problem with society today, we are totally intolerant of difference. It's black or white to you, when in this situation there's a ton of grey. You use the term 'anti vaxxer' much like people use the word 'racist.' It's a general term because you don't really have anything else to say. You also made the mask comment when I do believe publicized studies show few work. Makes me question your knowledge.

I'm man enough to admit I don't know enough and appreciate this discussion. I appreciate the comments of elgin, rico, jute, sancho etc. These are fascinating times. Horrible times too. Turning to insults and disrespect doesn't help anyone, again the problem with society, particularly in the US with race and politics. If people want to get the vaccine good for them, you have every right.

I gave you my points in regards to transparency, cancer, the newness of a vaccine, motive of government etc. Doesn't make me an anti vaxxer but someone with genuine and real concern. I've also done a fair amount of research and there are many like me with more questions than answers. There's also a ton of vaccine damaged, many severe. I cannot simply ignore that. Governments are corrupt and dishonest, none more so than in the US, yet I'm expected to blindly do as I'm told. I'm sorry but I can't.

Your last point about no vaccine causing chronic conditions is flawed. We've never had an mRNA 'vaccine before, and some doctors involved in the mRNA production are already expressing concerns. We're also dealing with an ever evolving target and you can already see the ineffectiveness of the current batch of vaccine. You've seen the blood clotting issues of the J&J vaccine and it being 'un'recommended' - we were told it was safe and now it's not. Is there a possibility we'll see more problems and what we were told was safe is not? There's enough evidence to suggest we will, but I certainly hope I am wrong.

[HaarDon]

1 hour ago, LA-Don said:

So what I am hearing is that you are taking your ball and going home because people won't play your game and make you captain. That's the problem with society today, we are totally intolerant of difference. It's black or white to you, when in this situation there's a ton of grey. You use the term 'anti vaxxer' much like people use the word 'racist.' It's a general term because you don't really have anything else to say. You also made the mask comment when I do believe publicized studies show few work. Makes me question your knowledge.

I'm man enough to admit I don't know enough and appreciate this discussion. I appreciate the comments of elgin, rico, jute, sancho etc. These are fascinating times. Horrible times too. Turning to insults and disrespect doesn't help anyone, again the problem with society, particularly in the US with race and politics. If people want to get the vaccine good for them, you have every right.

I gave you my points in regards to transparency, cancer, the newness of a vaccine, motive of government etc. Doesn't make me an anti vaxxer but someone with genuine and real concern. I've also done a fair amount of research and there are many like me with more questions than answers. There's also a ton of vaccine damaged, many severe. I cannot simply ignore that. Governments are corrupt and dishonest, none more so than in the US, yet I'm expected to blindly do as I'm told. I'm sorry but I can't.

Your last point about no vaccine causing chronic conditions is flawed. We've never had an mRNA 'vaccine before, and some doctors involved in the mRNA production are already expressing concerns. We're also dealing with an ever evolving target and you can already see the ineffectiveness of the current batch of vaccine. You've seen the blood clotting issues of the J&J vaccine and it being 'un'recommended' - we were told it was safe and now it's not. Is there a possibility we'll see more problems and what we were told was safe is not? There's enough evidence to suggest we will, but I certainly hope I am wrong.

Deary me.

Black or white, lesbian, gay, trans, asexual, punk or mod, Tory or labour blah blah.

I don't see any of those killing millions of people do you?

Certain beliefs do get millions killed however.

One being - not being vaccinated.

And it's not MY game nor do I wish to be captain. What a stupid comment.

This so call 'game' is saving millions of lives.

Your way has and will kill millions of lives. That's the difference and you have absolutely zero facts to prove otherwise.

Saying that you think getting a vaccine that has been approved by the world's medical experts conclusively may have adverse effects on any of us in years to come is ridiculous when there's little evidence any vaccine has ever had such an effect.

Expressing concerns isn't proof!

Show me the figures of blood clotting from covid vaccines. Is it around 0.00000000000002% of the world's population who got their doses?

That's a pathetic argument non vaccers cling onto to make some sort of stance.

 

You love going to football?

People have died from it...suffered ankle issues for the rest of their lives, caught chlamydia as a result of shagging a WAG, been beaten up, abused, had injuries later on in their lives and even resorted to taking drugs after their successes on the pitch.

A friend of mine had to give up football because of an ankle injury.

Holy shit I'm never watching another game of football.

In fact I'm going to become an anti-football campaigner and hIt the streets tomorrow.

"STOP THE GAME!

IT'LL MAKE YOU LAME!

STOP THE GAME!

ITLL MAKE YOU LAME!"