McInnes must go

[Donofanewera]

This charlatan has no clue tactically, yesterday he said we played a high pressing game in the 1st half. Vastly overpaid and club getting folk to pay DNA money whilst he earns a fortune for doing nothing 

[Leftside]

16 minutes ago, Donofanewera said:

This charlatan has no clue tactically, yesterday he said we played a high pressing game in the 1st half. Vastly overpaid and club getting folk to pay DNA money whilst he earns a fortune for doing nothing 

Its a forum and all about opinions, however I don't agree he is a charlatan or technically clueless. Clearly his team have been underperforming for some time, and the entertainment level has fallen off.

But it is worth considering we are bedding in half a new team here, when we consider the 3 January signings got a few weeks and Ojo and Bryson have been injured for much of the time since we signed them.

The assembled squad looks as strong as any group we have had for a generation, he needs to be given a opportunity to work with the squad, and demonstrate our new football philosophy. We seem to be operating at a different level as far a player recruitment goes, and that brings additional expectation and pressure for the manager.

However you may get your wish as its unlikely Dave Cormack will view anything other than a close 3rd place as the minimum acceptable performance level, if or when that looks unachievable DC will likely make the change.

[donsdaft]

C’mon Lefty min.

”Entertainment level has dropped off”

It’s been dire for years.

 

I haven’t been to Pittodrie since that disgraceful performance against Rijeka and I don’t see that many reasons to bother going back. Sheer and utter boredom.

[RedStarTorphins]

Whilst I wouldn’t be unhappy with a change, it’s not going to happen any time soon.

We can’t afford the pay-off of the management team, nor a potential compensation package for a new management team.

Basically COVID-19 has saved him.

From a financial perspective & also the fact the fans aren’t there to make their feelings known.

The only way he’ll possibly be sacked this season is if we finish out with the top 4 (& don’t win a cup). One is possible, the other almost certain. 
 

[RicoS321]

37 minutes ago, Leftside said:

Its a forum and all about opinions, however I don't agree he is a charlatan or technically clueless. Clearly his team have been underperforming for some time, and the entertainment level has fallen off.

But it is worth considering we are bedding in half a new team here, when we consider the 3 January signings got a few weeks and Ojo and Bryson have been injured for much of the time since we signed them.

The assembled squad looks as strong as any group we have had for a generation, he needs to be given a opportunity to work with the squad, and demonstrate our new football philosophy. We seem to be operating at a different level as far a player recruitment goes, and that brings additional expectation and pressure for the manager.

However you may get your wish as its unlikely Dave Cormack will view anything other than a close 3rd place as the minimum acceptable performance level, if or when that looks unachievable DC will likely make the change.

I believe McInnes has earned the chance to have a season or so of mediocrity, but I even I think that's a generous summation. 

The squad is decent, but hugely overloaded in midfield, which results in constant chopping and changing and shoehorning to keep players happy. McGeouch was a signing completely lacking in imagination for example. It's a congested squad, at best, and one without a settled and obvious starting eleven. 

I'm prepared to accept that we were miles off the pace yesterday (Ojo by far the worst offender). Our first game back in difficult circumstances, I'm not going to read a lot into it. A really shite fixture for the opener too. 

If Cormack is really as ruthless as you suggest then that can only be a good thing. McInnes is perfectly capable of putting a good team on the park, but he's so concerned about losing that it's stifling at times. A bit of pressure on him will hopefully see some risk taking and attacking. He'd build a lot of goodwill simply by allowing us to play a bit when we're ahead against teams we expect to beat, it should be an easy win for him. For example, I imagine Edmondson will start against st Johnstone. If we go a goal up, then bring Anderson on alongside him to try and finish it rather than congest the midfield and manage it out. McInnes' game management has been very successful in terms of points gained, but there's no real evidence to suggest that further attacking would gain less points, whilst being more enjoyable. In fact, the season we got our record points and goals is evidence that we can win big. 

It's annoying, McInnes can do better. He shouldn't need to be in this situation. He's bringing it on himself.

[Ten Caat]

It has nothing at all to do with Covid. The simple fact of the matter is that we cannot afford to pay him and his team off with 22 months left on their contracts. And then bring in a new management team on top of that. 

The only way we will bullet him is if he somehow manages to get us into clear and obvious relegation difficulties by Feb/March in either season he's still contracted for. And even then I think  Cormack would hesitate to act quickly. However I'm fairly certain that even managers as incompetent as Levein or Heckingarse couldn't contrive to put our squad into relegation difficulties so there's no way McInnes will.

[TheDeeDon]

Last season was enough for me, just the levels of boredom when going to games made me not renew.
It is a fairly poor state of affairs that DM has got himself into a position that we cannot afford to get rid. To me it feels like he has become bigger than the club and we will fall apart if he goes.

I think he has done good for us, but should have went after the 2017 cup final, as I think that was as good as things could have got for both manager and club at that point, bearing in mind we have a limited budget and the Zombies were always going to get a semblance of order back and compete against Celtic which is what our ex chairman always wanted

I don't worry too much about life after DM, as not my job to replace him, but we are well past peak McIness. My only worry is what we are actually playing for now, best of the rest and an occasional final/possible cup win?

I could be happy with that, but give us some entertainment on the pitch and get our youth set up sorted out so we don't always have to rely on other clubs untried kids ahead if our own.

 

[donsdaft]

Exactly, we are unlikely to be winning 10 league titles in a row, so what would be acceptable?

Trying to actually win games against the weegies would be a start.

Trying to entertain would help, this includes not defending a 1-0 advantage against Hamilton at home.

Being able to watch youngsters make their way into being first team regulars is a satisfying pastime.

Just because SKY or whatever make a big play about signing players doesn’t mean we have to join in.

lets face it, our biggest signing of a transfer window is hardly likely to get the fans all excited.

Far better to grow our own.

[RicoS321]

36 minutes ago, donsdaft said:

Exactly, we are unlikely to be winning 10 league titles in a row, so what would be acceptable?

Trying to actually win games against the weegies would be a start.

Trying to entertain would help, this includes not defending a 1-0 advantage against Hamilton at home.

Being able to watch youngsters make their way into being first team regulars is a satisfying pastime.

Just because SKY or whatever make a big play about signing players doesn’t mean we have to join in.

lets face it, our biggest signing of a transfer window is hardly likely to get the fans all excited.

Far better to grow our own.

Well, aye, but they're nae all good enough though. If McKenna gets a hard time as a still developing young player, and Cosgrove, do you think a team of home-grown young players would be afforded time when we're sitting near the bottom of the table? Our best youngsters come in the shape of Wright, Ross, McLennan, Anderson, Campbell and so on. I think Campbell will make it out of those, maybe Ross too. The rest probably won't be good enough and no amount of forcing will make them so. There is a happy medium in there somewhere of course, and I think McInnes has the balance wrong, but our youths are never going to be good enough to make up the majority of our first team. Worryingly, the signings of McGeouch and Hernandez suggest that even Cormack isn't going to force the issue. Virtanen and Campbell should have been the focus for those two positions.

[donsdaft]

Well, I don’t suppose I meant fill the entire team with home grown product, nice though that would be.

How difficult is it to produce your own fullbacks though? ( nearly impossible it would seem) 

Or a hard working midfielder or two, or for that matter (whisper it) a goalie.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, donsdaft said:

Well, I don’t suppose I meant fill the entire team with home grown product, nice though that would be.

How difficult is it to produce your own fullbacks though? ( nearly impossible it would seem) 

Or a hard working midfielder or two, or for that matter (whisper it) a goalie.

We produced Jack as a full back, Robertson has had a reasonable career too, Harvie looks half decent. Considine filled our left back spot for a decade. Virtanen supposed to be good but seems to be a midfielder now. Low was a hard working midfielder, Cammy Smith etc. The problem is that we're better than we used to be. Where we seem to fall down under McInnes is the squad numbers. We shouldn't expect our young players to play every week, but we don't really need to be bringing on Wilson, McGeouch, Ball, hedges etc. The ratio seems to be wrong. Campbell and the like should be first reserve. 

[TheDeeDon]

57 minutes ago, donsdaft said:

Well, I don’t suppose I meant fill the entire team with home grown product, nice though that would be.

How difficult is it to produce your own fullbacks though? ( nearly impossible it would seem) 

Or a hard working midfielder or two, or for that matter (whisper it) a goalie.

That's how I see it. We invest a lot of money in youth, but we don't see much of a return. I cannot include Ferguson or Cosgrove in this as they were signed as first team players and been afforded chances other youngsters we have would never get and I have seen both Cosgrove and Ferguson have horrible runs in the team, but still find themselves as first choices. I still reckon Sam is never a footballer, but has lucked out by having no real competition.

McKenna was just lucky, he was out of the picture at the club until Arneson coming back didn't work out as planned and we were struggling at the back and has been our most successful centre back since. I think he is a good SPL defender, but don't think his level is much higher than us if being honest, but accept his still has room for improvement in his position and feel he has never had good guidance alongside him.

Campbell I don't see it in him, but feel he is not played correctly by DM, same with McLennan, the lad is never a winger. Anderson needs a partner alongside him to play against and for that alone he will never make it under DM.

I saw the RB who was on loan last season play well and looked worthy of a run, only to see Ronnie come in with a big fee and appears to impact the chances of the loon.

All in all a pretty poor return on what is an spent on our youth set up and for me at least is the only way we can sustainably run our club as we cannot afford to buy 11 first team players and should be able to find Kids who can come through the youth system and make the first team.

It's a big thing for me and the manager should be playing his part in it and for me, on the outside looking in, he doesn't trust our own youth.

 

[Madbadteacher]

Rather than McInnes must go how about

McInnes must adapt/evolve or go?

[Elgindon]

39 minutes ago, Madbadteacher said:

Rather than McInnes must go how about

McInnes must adapt/evolve or go?

Always better to evolve by your own means,and he should have done so more than he has by now,but aye,am prepared to allow McInnes adjustment to the alleged new football philosophy,and how DC goes about imposing it if signs of improvement arent there. 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Madbadteacher said:

Rather than McInnes must go how about

McInnes must adapt/evolve or go?

Agree with Elgin and yersel like. I've said for ages that McInnes seems to have zero accountability, through no fault of his own. He has completely transformed the club in the way you would expect of a football director, that allows for no real succession planning. Whilst the strategy produced by the club was a little light on detail, it did suggest that McInnes would be required to deliver rather than be left to it like under Milne. I think a set of goals around youth integration and entertainment would go a long way toward improving the team if he was to accept the challenge. He needs to be challenged, that's the issue. The team from a few seasons back banged in seven goals in more than one spfl game and several four goals, a five and a six from memory. They were the best I've seen since Willie Miller's first season. That's the freedom we need to be seeing regularly.

[TheDeeDon]

12 hours ago, Madbadteacher said:

Rather than McInnes must go how about

McInnes must adapt/evolve or go?

No, he can't adapt/evolve in my opinion. He has a system and sticks to it with too much emphasis on not losing than actual winning. I accept you have to win ugly at times, but not all the time.

I don't imagine we will ever be bottom 6 fodder under him but the turgid football on offer is reminiscent of a certain J Calderwood esquire, so a huge no from me.

He also bleated for years about lack of training facilities holding us back. He gets them and we appear to look worse than when we did training all over the city wherever there was a patch of grass to lay out jumpers for goalposts.
 

 

 

 

[ayrshire_don74]

Mcinnes cant adapt or evolve he doesnt have a growth mindset, appears yet again we start a season without a proper recognised left back... this is the strategy , but the guy tasked to deliver it isnt capable

 

As preparations pick up pace ahead of the 20/21 season with pre-season training well underway, Aberdeen Football Club has today unveiled its playing philosophy and refreshed football strategy to excite Dons supporters ahead of the new campaign.

 

The Club is aiming to inspire fans with an exciting brand of football that has its roots in homegrown talent. The philosophy sets out how the Club will strive to produce winning performances that get supporters up off their feet, with intensity and pace. Adopting many of the principles which have brought the Club successes over the years, the philosophy is about creating a recognisable style of play that is firmly centred around the development of homegrown talent.

[manc_don]

1 hour ago, TheDeeDon said:

No, he can't adapt/evolve in my opinion. He has a system and sticks to it with too much emphasis on not losing than actual winning. I accept you have to win ugly at times, but not all the time.

I don't imagine we will ever be bottom 6 fodder under him but the turgid football on offer is reminiscent of a certain J Calderwood esquire, so a huge no from me.

He also bleated for years about lack of training facilities holding us back. He gets them and we appear to look worse than when we did training all over the city wherever there was a patch of grass to lay out jumpers for goalposts.
 

 

 

 

The above is a good summation of my thoughts. Covid has robbed us of his possible departure. I mean obviously Milne did that too but this summer was supposed to be the time we parted amicably . We don’t play football anymore, it’s just seriously shite to watch for nearly three years.

[rocket_scientist]

The description of him as a charlatan in the OP is 100% correct.

It is unreal to me that many can't see this. Standards are in rapid freefall, including the ethics and the perceptions of the masses. James Corden to "entertainment" and Boris Johnson to public service are as charlatan in their fields as the bearded midget is to football management and yet they're all getting a gig.

The further tragedy is AFC fans making excuses for him or making futile arguments to somehow mitigate his severe - I would say fatal - limitations. It's like they can't take responsibility for their own stupidity and are in total denial. Talk of McInnes and the Scotland job is pathos in the extreme  

It's not rocket science. Employ the right people in the right positions. McInnes has never been a good manager and never will be. 

[RicoS321]

Cormack needs to put the pressure on, let him know what is acceptable and what isn't and start giving him support by identifying exactly the strategy and goals so that McInnes can't claim to be hard done by. There should be no surprise for McInnes if he does get fired. I very much disliked Calderwood as a manager and was pleased when the club decided to let him go. But the fact he was so surprised by it shows how out of touch with the manager the chairman was. If Cormack can lay out exactly what he expects of McInnes then failure to meet those expectations should see him punted. It's not McInnes' fault he has had zero accountability and free reign to date and it would be exceptionally unfair to punt him in the early part of this season (before January). It's a new Chairman with new expectations (hopefully). McInnes proved in 16/17 that he has the ability to put an excellent team on the park (74 goals, 76 points, +39GD is phenomenal), he needs start taking the risks and making the decisions to get back near to that level again. After he lost a few players from that side, he hid behind grinding points out, now is the time for him to face up to the difficult choices on the pitch. Get playing again or leave. I think he has the ability, I just think years of not being challenged has left him complacent. With no games in front of a crowd until January, I'd give him every opportunity until then.

[tom_widdows]

Question for those who were actively interested/ involved during the Ferguson era.

When Ferguson turned up was there any press/ rumours that whilst he had taken the Aberdeen job his dream was to manage another one, and everytime that particular club were looking for a new manager, he was linked to the point it was assumed he just biding his time at the Dons?
My impressions of Ferguson was that once he got his teeth into a team his only goal was to make them the best and speculation about him moving to Liverpool, Manchester United, Sevco or anyone weren't an issue.
I know this was a different time ie no social media, 24hr news and it was even difficult on occasions for National UK press to get a story from far flung corners of Scotland.

Now jump forward to 2 of our last 3 managers

Mark McGhee
I can't say I was enamoured with his appointment at the time but there were a fair few people salivating at the prospect for his Gothenburg connection, his performance at Motherwell or whatever. 
My expectations were lowered further when it was made clear he really wanted the celtic job and the dons were effectively the booby prize, perhaps just something for him to pick up a wage until Tony Mowbray was punted.

Derek McInnes
After the Mark McGhee fiasco I kept an open mind about his appointment but from the moment he showed up there was a rumour he was just waiting for the West Brom job to come up. This rumour has continued throughout his tenure and then there was the potential deathnail on his career which was the Sevco management. The Scotland job has also been brought up several times.

My point being 2 of our last 3 managers have both potentially taken the job with one eye firmly on another from Day 1 and would be ready to jump ship at a moments notice. This potentially hinders their ability/ interest to continue developing their skills as in the back of their mind they are just waiting for what they see as a better job to be given to them. If you have ambition to climb the ladder the proper way (for me anyway) is you have to excel at your current job ie show creativity, adaptability, that you can handle a crisis well and be willing to change something if it isnt working, to the point that should your dream job actually become available there wouldnt even be any question of you needing to interview for it as they would be begging you to come to them, almost like they were trying to sign a Ronaldo, Messi etc.

I just can't imagine McInnes winning the Scottish Cup and then publicly slate the teams performace in a post match interview.


 

[rocket_scientist]

Great question TW.

There was no dialogue (that I can remember) about SAF getting another job until 1986 when he moved. Certainly never at the start. He had been sacked by St Mirren and he threw himself into the AFC manager role, relocating his family here, going to watch as much football as possible, scouting locally most days of the week etc.

After seven years - which were freaky good of course - he was more than ripe to progress his career and became the most successful manager of all time in many of our opinions.

I think you are totally right to point out that McInnes and McGhee had eyes beyond AFC from day one, not that either of them were made of the right stuff to actually succeed in management.

[BigAl]

Fergie famously said at one point during his reign at Pittodrie there was only one job he would leave for,  and that was Man Utd.

Not sure how much of that was tongue in cheek, but the facts are that he turned down Wolves, Rangers, Spurs and Arsenal before he made the move to Old Trafford so it would tend to suggest that there was something in it. One thing that Fergie always made a big thing of was his relationship with Dick Donald and Chris Anderson and realised that this was something he was unlikely to enjoy elsewhere in football.

[RicoS321]

2 hours ago, tom_widdows said:

I just can't imagine McInnes winning the Scottish Cup and then publicly slate the teams performace in a post match interview.


 

Me neither. But is there any manager that the dons could dream of getting that would? Bearing in mind that rant came after winning the Cup Winners' Cup (and was followed by an apology the next day), Ferguson did have a bit of prior goodwill before that incident. I don't want some nut job coming in and slating the team off the bat, so you're looking at a manager that has already won several competitions with the dons before they can really do that and, of course, McInnes doesn't come into that category.

In terms of West Brom or whatever, I don't see what your point is? McInnes has never stated his desire to join another club and has always talked of his enjoyment working for the dons, I'd say he's been very professional in that regard. His first few years with the dons were his most successful, and our most successful since the early nineties, so the evidence doesn't really back up the point that having one eye on another job affected him. In fact, turning down another job had significantly greater impact (with the fans). I just can't see a situation where a manager would expect to take their eye off the ball at one club, expecting to get a job at a wealthier one, they just wouldn't get the job. Given the level that the dons are at, could you imagine the dross you'd get if you were signing a manager who didn't aim to step up beyond that? As long as they keep that desire to themselves, I don't see it as an issue. In fact, I'm struggling to see what the actual issue is. McInnes being not good enough isn't likely related to his desire to work elsewhere, it's more likely that a desire to remain would see him go stale and run out of ideas.

Edited August 3, 2020 by RicoS321

[rocket_scientist]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

As long as they keep that desire to themselves, I don't see it as an issue. In fact, I'm struggling to see what the actual issue is. McInnes being not good enough isn't likely related to his desire to work elsewhere, it's more likely that a desire to remain would see him go stale and run out of ideas.

He went for other interviews since he came to AFC. He didn't relocate his family and to the best of my knowledge, still hasn't. What man wants to be be parted from his children for more than half of their years growing up? There must have been good reason... in his head.

Whatever his ambitions were and are is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that matters is whether he is fit for purpose or not.

Your "going stale" and "run out of ideas" suggests that he was a good manager once upon a time. As I predicted with Calderwood when he was an embarrassment to AFC, this cunt will NEVER succeed in management post-AFC and arguably, had achieved even less than Calderclown before he got here. I don't care for your arguments as to how good he had been at Aberdeen at some point in the past. The results don't lie. Failing to beat Ronnie Deila was his biggest crime. In a shit league for most of the last decade with only one club to compete against until the emergence of a new club (who themselves are trophyless in their short-assed history), he has been a failure as a manager and he is a failure as a human being.