McInnes must go

[ayrshire_don74]

going back to start 2020  we have taken what 9 points from 11-12 games..??

[tom_widdows]

13 minutes ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

going back to start 2020  we have taken what 9 points from 11-12 games..??

Yes but how many corners?

[ayrshire_don74]

hunners

[rocket_scientist]

The Weegie awa fae Glesga syndrome.

We have all seen them, on holiday and here in the NE. They love to hold court and the pub is their referred environment for doing it. They usually put on an even thicker accent and they have misguided notions that the Glesga banter and their "gallusness" means that everybody loves what comes out of their mouths and that we hang on every word.

They also think that they are superior beings and more worldly-wise than everybody else and this is particularly true when they spout their stuff in Aberdeen and the shire. Billy Connolly got it terribly wrong at the Banff Springs once upon a time and this certainly coloured his view but the likes of McInnes and Calderwood and Willie Miller, they have particular contempt for the teuchters who they consider the people of Aberdeen to be.

One thing that fuels them is they mistakenly think that we have unrealistic expectations and the evidence they point to will be the incessant moaning, even when AFC wins. What they fail to comprehend is the facts; that between those three, there isn't a shred of management ability within them, not being cut out for the jobs. Also, it is the performances rather than the results that draws the most ire from the fans because anybody who knows fitba and who was watching that garbage last night knows that this will be another long season with mostly frustration and very few, if any, highlights.

McInnes must go and it's a disgrace that Milne bound him to the club with a ridiculous contract. He's a weegie awa fae hame who should have fucked off back to Ibrox when he had the chance, thereby fucking them and giving AFC the chance to reboot and restart.

[manc_don]

Lots of chatter about a potential fall out over finances. Personally I think it's probably putting 2+2 and getting 5 but it would be interesting timing. I mean, if we were to lose him, i'd rather he walk out the door than be pushed. Saves the club money and keeps his dignity in tact. That said, not sure I'd want him to go halfway through the jan window?

[Jute]

7 hours ago, manc_don said:

Lots of chatter about a potential fall out over finances. Personally I think it's probably putting 2+2 and getting 5 but it would be interesting timing. I mean, if we were to lose him, i'd rather he walk out the door than be pushed. Saves the club money and keeps his dignity in tact. That said, not sure I'd want him to go halfway through the jan window?

Think it’s exactly the bit in bold. There is no way Aberdeen sack a manager who has the team third in the table and only lost 4 out of 21 league games. Also a club pleading poverty does not pay off an 18 month contract in that situation just because the football has not been great to watch. 

[ayrshire_don74]

As much as i dont like DM, if Stephen Glass is rumoured replacement then god help us

[tlg1903]

This might have mileage.  I have thought that he seemed a bit lacking in enthusiasm recently and I wouldn't be that surprised if he fancied a change of scenery.  We do seem to have stagnated again after a fairly bright start to the season.  Cormack would be keen to get his stonking salary off the wage bill too given how tight cash is due to covid.  2bh I've been of the opinion for a wee while that he isn't going to renew Mcinnes's contract next year for precisely this reason. 

 

To replace him with Glass though? That would be a bold move. He is free though. He was interim head coach at atalanta from the summer and has just been replaced by Heinze.  

[ayrshire_don74]

2 minutes ago, tlg1903 said:

This might have mileage.  I have thought that he seemed a bit lacking in enthusiasm recently and I wouldn't be that surprised if he fancied a change of scenery.  We do seem to have stagnated again after a fairly bright start to the season.  Cormack would be keen to get his stonking salary off the wage bill too given how tight cash is due to covid.  2bh I've been of the opinion for a wee while that he isn't going to renew Mcinnes's contract next year for precisely this reason. 

 

To replace him with Glass though? That would be a bold move. He is free though. He was interim head coach at atalanta from the summer and has just been replaced by Heinze.  

he maybe free but what does he bring to the table ?

[RicoS321]

57 minutes ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

he maybe free but what does he bring to the table ?

A mountain bike.

[tlg1903]

Not costing anything.. 

[BigAl]

7 hours ago, Jute said:

Think it’s exactly the bit in bold. There is no way Aberdeen sack a manager who has the team third in the table and only lost 4 out of 21 league games. Also a club pleading poverty does not pay off an 18 month contract in that situation just because the football has not been great to watch. 

Personally speaking I think anyone genuinely believing that we're about to pay off McInnes has some pretty serious solvent abuse issues or is living in some sort of fantasy world to be pretty blunt about it

[RicoS321]

2 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Personally speaking I think anyone genuinely believing that we're about to pay off McInnes has some pretty serious solvent abuse issues or is living in some sort of fantasy world to be pretty blunt about it

It would seem unlikely, a resignation would be  more credible, but still unlikely. He is acting very un-McInnes in this window though by showing his hand early and clearly trying to move Wright on in January. He's either trying to play the board off against the fans, or Cormack has asked him to release info publicly to dry and drum up interest in some players to get other business done.

[BigAl]

4 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

or Cormack has asked him to release info publicly to dry and drum up interest in some players to get other business done.

I can buy into that Rico

Think we really want to cash in on another asset if you could still call Cosgrove that 

[OxfordDon]

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

or Cormack has asked him to release info publicly to dry and drum up interest in some players to get other business done.

First thing I thought when I read the latest BBC article on McInnes highlighting Sevco interest in Wright

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55636430

Quote

"I am not surprised that he might have other interest. I think there is more than just one club interested, but Rangers have illustrated that they have an interest in Scott and they could do a pre-contract with Scott really any time, so could the other club please get their feckin finger out and make an actual cash offer*"

* may include internal monologue

[ayrshire_don74]

hopefully out by Monday

[manc_don]

Almost like he's playing for the sack

[redordead]

I’ve seen a lot of people on social media saying that the backed him to the hilt but this is the final straw for them.

Is this the the moment when he has lost a huge chunk of the “who else would we get brigade” ?

I agree about finances and being in 3rd place. Unfortunately it’s going to take a longer run of poor results rather than performances to drive any change.

hes too comfy, the squad are too comfy, that’s why folk keep coming back. It’s just a job and and long as we get 4th or better, nothing else is expected of them. They’re not out to impress or entertain, they’re in it to maintain a level just above mediocrity and to try not to lose heavily in Europe and Glasgow.

[Jute]

The long contract was definitely a mistake as it removed the pressure to perform. 
 

Failure to get third this year will be a disaster financially as it gives us almost guaranteed group football in Europe in either Europa league or Europa Conference. Thing is I am not sure changing manager now would make us anymore likely to finish 3rd as an new manager will be stuck with same squad we have now. I would think at a minimum board should be telling McInnes now that this team must finish 3rd if he is to continue in the job. 
 

 

[RicoS321]

4 hours ago, Jute said:

The long contract was definitely a mistake as it removed the pressure to perform. 
 

Failure to get third this year will be a disaster financially as it gives us almost guaranteed group football in Europe in either Europa league or Europa Conference. Thing is I am not sure changing manager now would make us anymore likely to finish 3rd as an new manager will be stuck with same squad we have now. I would think at a minimum board should be telling McInnes now that this team must finish 3rd if he is to continue in the job. 
 

 

McInnes has been extremely good at maximising our points return, it's one thing we can trust him to do. We don't need ultimatums souring relationships and making people down tools. If McInnes doesn't finish third then the board are well within reason to act in the summer, it doesn't need a warning. Either way, they'd have to pay out a final year.

To be honest, we all know the situation, there's very little point in discussing it. The board would be a little bit mental to pay off McInnes at this stage and even including the county game would be a harsh decision. He's easily got until the summer, and that's a reasonable position to take by any objective measure. He's yet to have a sustained period of bad results in his dons career and until he does there's little point in discussing. I'm just hopeful that the board are succession planning now and ready to move in the summer, or next summer if he finishes third this season.

[manc_don]

4 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

McInnes has been extremely good at maximising our points return, it's one thing we can trust him to do. We don't need ultimatums souring relationships and making people down tools. If McInnes doesn't finish third then the board are well within reason to act in the summer, it doesn't need a warning. Either way, they'd have to pay out a final year.

To be honest, we all know the situation, there's very little point in discussing it. The board would be a little bit mental to pay off McInnes at this stage and even including the county game would be a harsh decision. He's easily got until the summer, and that's a reasonable position to take by any objective measure. He's yet to have a sustained period of bad results in his dons career and until he does there's little point in discussing. I'm just hopeful that the board are succession planning now and ready to move in the summer, or next summer if he finishes third this season.

The bit in bold is true but has been a hallmark of this season, or rather, not achieving that. Teams we used to be beating we either now draw or lose to. Especially the lower teams.

It has to happen in the summer (ignoring the point I think it should have happened three years ago), but I think the board will have to suck it up as I don't think results are going to be great between now and then. Five months is a long time and if we're looking likely to miss out on Europe, I'd be interested to see how that plays out. We've got the squad we've got now so he really needs to show what he can do.  We can't afford to get rid sooner, but I think the results might test the boards resolve.

Personally, I hope for an uptick in results, and we can all leave with reputations in tact. I wish the management team no ill will. I'd love for him to go on his own accord and not ask the club for money, but can't see that happening (it is well within his rights).

[Panda]

I said at the start of the season I felt this would probably be his last season in charge, and felt he probably would leave in summer. I think we're at the stage now where that has to happen. And that's the first time I've ever called for him to go.

Finishing fourth behind Kilmarnock was poor, but the three wins in Glasgow over Rangers papered over the cracks.

We were poor last season and he went and spent big in January, and had another big transfer window in summer, and yet he still hasn't turned it around.

I'd let him see out the season because the next appointment has to be right, and rather than sacking him now and panicking towards a Paul Hartley or Tommy Wright, we can take our time.

For me, Danny Cowley would seem an interesting option. Unlucky to be sacked by Huddersfield after keeping them up. Previous to that his record in management was very impressive, albeit at smaller clubs.

[RicoS321]

10 hours ago, manc_don said:

It has to happen in the summer (ignoring the point I think it should have happened three years ago)

Three years ago? Now that would have been harsh. Thanks for the second place, Derek.

9 hours ago, Panda said:

We were poor last season and he went and spent big in January, and had another big transfer window in summer, and yet he still hasn't turned it around.

I sort of agree with your post, but I don't think we can pin this one on McInnes. The club was very clearly the instigator in the crime against fitba that was Hernandez, and it almost appeared like we got Kennedy to keep McInnes happy. We can only imagine what would have happened if we'd been allowed to spend half that ridiculous fee on an actual striker and opting for someone like O'Donnell on a pre contract or waited until the following summer to sign a right back. There were fairly obvious targets like nisbet out there at the time we were dicking about on a Venezuelan.

The above is the biggest concern for me, we've seen what happens when the club play at soldiers with the Atlanta crew. We're nowhere near where we should be in terms of replacing McInnes, and the Hernandez pish showed that. We can't be going down the route of another manager with complete control over every area, we need continuity and strategy in the main departments. Otherwise the next manager comes in, replaces all the backroom staff and after their 18-24months of signing guys they know because they've seen them recently, recruitment tails off, everything else goes stale and we're left starting again, again.

[ayrshire_don74]

The decision is to stick or twist.. if results continue do decline... last three 'completed' seasons have seen decrease in PPG.. assume the crap results continue and club finishes 5th... the financial impact v Mcinnes being sacked ? We should be pushing Celtic for second given how bad they are playing.  Would also add the St Mirren cup debacle seems to have been swept under the carpet. Likewise the attainment of the 'football strategy' he is failing. If this was a senior executive in Dave Cormack's business he would be sacked already

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

The decision is to stick or twist.. if results continue do decline... last three 'completed' seasons have seen decrease in PPG.. assume the crap results continue and club finishes 5th... the financial impact v Mcinnes being sacked ? We should be pushing Celtic for second given how bad they are playing.  Would also add the St Mirren cup debacle seems to have been swept under the carpet. Likewise the attainment of the 'football strategy' he is failing. If this was a senior executive in Dave Cormack's business he would be sacked already

If it was in Dave Cormack's business, the cost of sacking would be significantly less. However, it ignores the fact that incompetence is tolerated and rewarded in most businesses for a long time. I've worked with some fairly rank managers over the years who avoided the sack by not monumentally fucking something up (until they did, at which point they were sacked). It happens a lot, quite rightly people respect other humans and don't generally want to sack people on a whim.

As I see it, the decision for Cormack is a relatively simple one. He'll take the emotion out of it and look at McInnes' previous seasons and his ability to grind out points and see that the risk of 5th isn't huge under McInnes. Especially as Livingston are facing quite a challenging month or two of fixtures. He'll build up a weight of evidence first before acting, which is what you really want from the board - you definitely don't want them acting as a fan would. He'll look at value for money and accept that he's not currently getting that, but a pay off would provide even less value. I think he'll also look at expectations from a new manager, budget available to a new manager and current squad limitations. Again, it goes back to succession planning. Unless we're giving the new manager a budget and scope to make changes in this window, then you're asking a lot to do significantly better than McInnes with the available squad. The risk of finishing fifth with a new manager would likely be greater than with McInnes. It would be a terrible set of conditions to begin a new job in.

Whether we like it or not - objectively - McInnes has set a fairly high standard as dons manager and will not be easy to follow. The consistency of results and points return will be very difficult to match and better. His results put him in the top 3 or 4 dons managers of all time, regardless of whether we think the entertainment has been there. There are areas that I think we can all see that can be improved, but that doesn't mean they are easy to improve and it doesn't mean they are easy to improve without affecting other parameters. The evidence we have is that the people at the club aren't capable of taking some of the failures (recruitment) from McInnes and turning them into successes, and that doesn't bode well for a new manager. I think that if, as fans, we're not willing to accept that McInnes has done a good job in many, many aspects of the role then we pave the way to another McGhee. Succession planning should be about building on what we have, not the constant ripping up and starting again that has happened every time we have a new manager. We shouldn't be looking at a overhaul of the post-Calderwood variety, we should be seeing an opportunity to identify the strong coaching, fitness (I don't mean injury free, I mean fitness levels), professionalism, hard working, diligent aspects of McInnes' tenure and adding the sustainable recruitment, flair, determination and use of subs that is missing. Our complete failure to understand the recruitment side in the signing of Hernandez doesn't bode well in that regard, I don't believe the club is ready for change and it would incredibly unfair on any new manager to take them in at this point.