McInnes must go

[RicoS321]

Failing to beat Ronnie Deila was because our squad wasn't good enough. It's been done to death. We beat the tims twice, Motherwell the only other team before the league was over. If Milne had gone for it and taken a couple of million punt in January on 3-4 players, I think we'd have won it. We got Simon Church. I don't think he'll succeed post-AFC either, but mainly because he's on a downward trajectory and I think he'll leave us on a low. If he'd left for the Hun, I think he would have been more succesful than Gerrard. As you say, the results don't lie, and his results are exceptionally good for the dons. It's his performances that have been pish (post 16/17). Saying he'll never succeed in management is too bland a statement to mean anything. He could easily go to a club like West Brom and do well, he's a good club manager. His style is unsuited to winning cups or causing shocks, but he's very good at building points and the background professional stuff within the club. He could easily have been as succesful as someone like Walter Smith for example, and in a very similar fashion. He's definitely as good a manager, but I don't think he'll ever get to be in that position. Smith looked out for number one and always left clubs on a high and joined clubs on a low. It was a case of right place, right time when he got the hun job originally and that set him on the gravy train for life. I think that ship might have sailed for McInnes, it'll be interesting to see - this season - if he knows that yet. He really, really needs this season to go well for him if he wants to continue to have a good career in football (I mean good, as in good opportunity). I'm not convinced he will, but he definitely has the ability if he wants it enough.

 

 

[TheDeeDon]

One of the worst thing for Aberdeen under McInnes, was being in a league without Rangers, then Hearts and Hib were relegated and Dundee Utd were shit as well, so the second place place finishes enhanced his reputation during a strange period for Scottish football. He was very lucky he was the manager during that period, but I do acknowledge he still had to beat the other teams, which we did on a constant basis and did so well at times.

Normal service in our game is upon us once again, with the only difference  between now and before Rangers went bust in 2012, is that Celtic are far stronger than anyone both on and off the pitch, but we never took advantage of that period and built something more sustainable than we currently have, not all McInnes fault, a lot of it is down to his biggest cheerleader in Milne, but I do believe DM has a large say in youth operations and our return on that over the years has been quite poor, and I know I keep repeating it, but a huge bugbear of mine and the only way we can build a team required to at least compete is to have a strong youth policy to complement the first team. There is something far wrong if we honestly cannot develop players to compete in the SPL, can all these lads we sign as kids really turn out to be that shyte that they cannot match guys like Ojo, Bryson, Forrester, Gleeson and countless others who have had more chances in our first team than most of our youth ever do.

I would never say McInnes was never good for us, because he was for a time for me anyway, but the good work he did at the start is all but forgotten now and as someone pointed out above, the only way for him is down once he does leaves us.

[Elgindon]

When Milne was still at the helm,I wanted shot of McInnes at least a season before now.I'm as bored as anyone of the current style of football. But,he has shown that he can bring together teams that can be entertaining to varying degrees,and compete reasonably well in competitions. Not due to managerial or tactical nous IMO,but the ability to attract a good standard of players that either click as a group or they dinna.He doesnt seem to know whats needed to suit a groups of players that isnt working.

   Why am I prepared to give him another chance?  Because I think since '16/'17 he's taken the easier option of grinding out results,without testing enough whether a current squad would benefit from trying something more attack minded.So a bit of pressure might,push him out his comfort zone,and freshen the thinking.Depends how forceful DC is with it,and how McInnes responds,but worth a try IMO before an expensive change. I dont think the players enjoy the current style either.

[Ten Caat]

3 hours ago, rocket_scientist said:

Great question TW.

There was no dialogue (that I can remember) about SAF getting another job until 1986 when he moved. Certainly never at the start. He had been sacked by St Mirren and he threw himself into the AFC manager role, relocating his family here, going to watch as much football as possible, scouting locally most days of the week etc.

After seven years - which were freaky good of course - he was more than ripe to progress his career and became the most successful manager of all time in many of our opinions.

I think you are totally right to point out that McInnes and McGhee had eyes beyond AFC from day one, not that either of them were made of the right stuff to actually succeed in management.

Fergie got the Aberdeen job pretty much at the same time as John Greig stepped into the oldco hotseat. As you say correctly, Fergie had just been fired (quite ignominiously) by St Mirren so it was a bit of a surprise that we appointed him. He most certainly was offered the oldco job when Greig resigned late '83 and very nearly took it but decided against it when one of their directors warned him that Willie Waddell was still calling the shots behind the scenes and he wouldn't get the full autonomy that he had to manage the club as he did with us ( and wee Jum McLean also then turned them down despite them offering to treble his DABS wages because he knew he was second choice to Fergie and his ego wouldn't allow him to be portrayed as such had he accepted).

McGhee was just a charlatan and we should have told him to fuck off when it became known he was holding off on accepting our job offer to see if Celtic would come in for him.

As for McInnes...he at least wasn't overtly touting himself for the West Brom gig at any point. Had he won the league during Deila's tenure at Celtic, his ambition might just have come true. That horse has long bolted of course. And even though he turned down sevco, just by going and taking a look should really have been a sacking offence but Wiggy instead rewarded him with an even bigger contract that sevco were offering. He has long outstayed his welcome now.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, TheDeeDon said:

  was the manager duriwe never took advantage of that period and built something more sustainable than we currently have, not all McInnes fault, a lot of it is down to his biggest cheerleader in Milne, but I do believe DM has a large say in youth operations and our return on that over the years has been quite poor, and I know I keep repeating it, but a huge bugbear of mine and the only way we can build a team required to at least compete is to have a strong youth policy to complement the first team. There is something far wrong if we honestly cannot develop players to compete in the SPL, can all these lads we sign as kids really turn out to be that shyte that they cannot match guys like Ojo, Bryson, Forrester, Gleeson and countless others who have had more chances in our first team than most of our youth ever do.

Agree, but not sure why that would be McInnes' fault? I've been saying since he first came in when we got sheerin in and ditched every youth player that we needed a strategy on youth development. That has to transcend the manager, always. The board have to set the limit on purchased squad players to ensure that the youngsters get opportunity. McInnes' job is to win as many games as possible, which is easier to do with a squad of experienced players than blooding youngsters at difficult times. There's a direct conflict, so it falls to Milne, now Cormack, to set the parameters to force his hand. I'd probably argue that all three of our January signings crossed the acceptable level of senior/youth ratio for very little benefit, so I'm not convinced Cormack has it right either. Virtanen, Campbell and Ross could have substituted for Hernandez, McGeouch and Kennedy. It wouldn't have been in the comfort zone though, which is where McInnes needs to be taken from.

[TheDeeDon]

20 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

Agree, but not sure why that would be McInnes' fault? I've been saying since he first came in when we got sheerin in and ditched every youth player that we needed a strategy on youth development. That has to transcend the manager, always. The board have to set the limit on purchased squad players to ensure that the youngsters get opportunity. McInnes' job is to win as many games as possible, which is easier to do with a squad of experienced players than blooding youngsters at difficult times. There's a direct conflict, so it falls to Milne, now Cormack, to set the parameters to force his hand. I'd probably argue that all three of our January signings crossed the acceptable level of senior/youth ratio for very little benefit, so I'm not convinced Cormack has it right either. Virtanen, Campbell and Ross could have substituted for Hernandez, McGeouch and Kennedy. It wouldn't have been in the comfort zone though, which is where McInnes needs to be taken from.

I am lead to believe that DM was involved in most aspects of the club, including youth development and there has been some 'problems' behind the scene with him and the youth coaches regarding youngsters getting chances, with one coach in particular unhappy with the loons not getting chances ahead of some of the shyte we have.

I know that DMs involvement in day to day matters has been curtailed a good bit since the baldy builder stepped down as chairman, but not sure anything is being done about the lack of chances for our youth.

You would like to think a club like ours would have good relations between the different coaches throughout the club from the bairns right up to the ones knocking on the door of the first team, but from what I heard it is not the case.

I'm well aware the manager shouldn't control the youth set up, but should have at least an interest in it and work on strategies to get players blooded in the first team.

Maybe it is time to ditch our youth set up and invest more in young talent from other clubs who appear more capable of walking into the first team or at least get the chance of it than waiting for our own to come through.

 

 

 

 

[royal deeside cowie]

A sunbed ravaged wrinkled old wage thief who has bled the club dry with his wage demands while the players were left with a pittance and the fans pay the price for his lavish life. Mr Milne has a lot to answer for, allowing Deek to get so comfortable. With his feet so far under the table now he actually thinks he's untouchable. If Cormack doesn't get him out of the club this season I will cancel my season ticket and DNA. I will not fund Deek McInnes or his family's cosy lifestyle while he does so little.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, TheDeeDon said:

I am lead to believe that DM was involved in most aspects of the club, including youth development and there has been some 'problems' behind the scene with him and the youth coaches regarding youngsters getting chances, with one coach in particular unhappy with the loons not getting chances ahead of some of the shyte we have.

I know that DMs involvement in day to day matters has been curtailed a good bit since the baldy builder stepped down as chairman, but not sure anything is being done about the lack of chances for our youth.

You would like to think a club like ours would have good relations between the different coaches throughout the club from the bairns right up to the ones knocking on the door of the first team, but from what I heard it is not the case.

I'm well aware the manager shouldn't control the youth set up, but should have at least an interest in it and work on strategies to get players blooded in the first team.

Maybe it is time to ditch our youth set up and invest more in young talent from other clubs who appear more capable of walking into the first team or at least get the chance of it than waiting for our own to come through.

 

 

 

 

Aye, doesn't surprise me, he had to completely overhaul everything when he came in because we had let it get in such a state. The data folk, sports science etc were all McInnes appointments as well as youth (think the scouting preceded him). It didn't bode well for any succession planning and that's always been a huge problem. Cormack mentioned it in one of his first interviews so I'm guessing he has a handle on it, or is at least trying to get a handle on it. We need to get our shite together well before we get rid of McInnes that's for sure and get a defined strategy in place that transcends the manager. We can't be employing a new manager next month then telling them that, by the way, they have to have at least four youngsters in the starting eleven. 

I understand why people want rid of McInnes but the club has to be in the right place and the timing right. Give McInnes a chance to manage on our terms and set the terms of his employment so that there can be no excuses. Don't just do it on a whim like Milne did on every occasion. 

[rocket_scientist]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

I understand why people want rid of McInnes...

Give McInnes a chance... 

I don't think you do understand why some people want shot of the cunt.

How many chances do you want to give the useless midget hun fuck?

Your flowery management consultancy spik doesn't detract from the ONLY issue; is he fit for purpose or not?

This of course depends on what the purpose actually is and as we discovered from the AFC aspirations thread, none of you have the imagination or the fucking balls to even try to achieve something, in your case citing boo hoo hoo, the OF have got more money than us and the SPFL, the SFA and the refs are all conspiring against us so it's a rigged game. Pathetic.

[royal deeside cowie]

We're singing from the same hym sheet, brother

It wasnt long ago we almost shared the same bed with your adorable fox. You have a king size Emma mattress that can easily accommodate three. And a wonderful wife with the same attributes. Sex is a basic human right and I remember you were the first to agree with me in principle my old friend. 

[rocket_scientist]

There are other forums people can use. Two types in particular I've noticed in the last couple of days.

Posts like these, a fabrication from a warped and slightly disturbed mind, can be repeated often enough and then you can start to believe it.

The other is to drop a bomb in the room and then run away like a little girl, ignoring a direct request to back it up.

These sort of posters drag down forums and you end up like that penis Bebo's abortion site where the bottom feeders become the majority and drown out the good guys. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by rocket_scientist

[royal deeside cowie]

One of your biggest problems has always been overindulgence and overthinking. Typical Aberdonian. Take me by the hand laddie, I'll lead you to the promised land. The land of abundance.

Me and you and the jacobite will reign supreme. Resistance is futile.

[Donofanewera]

Some of the reasons to defend the useless manager on this thread show the problem, a lot of our fans have no expectation of success and are happy with mediocrity as long as the can feel like superfans buying things like DNA.
 

We continuously sit back against bang average teams and didn’t register a shot on target at home 

 

 

[RicoS321]

8 hours ago, rocket_scientist said:

I don't think you do understand why some people want shot of the cunt.

How many chances do you want to give the useless midget hun fuck?

Your flowery management consultancy spik doesn't detract from the ONLY issue; is he fit for purpose or not?

This of course depends on what the purpose actually is and as we discovered from the AFC aspirations thread, none of you have the imagination or the fucking balls to even try to achieve something, in your case citing boo hoo hoo, the OF have got more money than us and the SPFL, the SFA and the refs are all conspiring against us so it's a rigged game. Pathetic.

I've never suggested that the refs or the SFA or the SPFL are against us, but only an idiot would suggest that money isn't the overwhelming factor in no other club winning the league in 35 years, coinciding with the 1000% increase in income inequality. 

To answer your question though, I don't know if he's fit for purpose, but to me the evidence suggests there's a good chance that he could be, or at least as good a chance as any other manager in the league or that I can think of. I think there are areas of his management that can be improved and that it's the club's responsibility to force that. If that fails, move on. I want to see what he can do under pressure and I think he's done enough over the years to get the opportunity. There's zero flowery management spik, just actual management suggestions. You seem to think that the gap between us and the scum is so small that a good manager will drag us kicking and screaming to league victory (in the deila years, that would have been 5 additional wins and around 40 odd goals - not insignificant). I think that the entire club needs to get its shit together to give the manager the sort of opportunity Ferguson was afforded (less the massive gap in funding, obviously). I want there to be zero doubt when McInnes goes that he knows why and we know why and we've given him the exact same setup as the next guy. Otherwise, unless we get extremely lucky, then we'll just be having the same conversation again in a year with the next guy, who we've handed the keys to the club and left all our shit at his door. In the ridiculously unlikely chance we get the next Ferguson, the club needs to be ready, and it definitely isn't. Cormack has a fair amount of work to do before taking the easy option of ditching the manager.

 

[rocket_scientist]

Coincidentally there were a couple of programmes on TV last night that are relevant to this debate. The profile of Klopp (Germany's greatest export ) on C4 was sycophancy in the extreme but brought up some very interesting angles. Brian Clough was highlighted in some ITV sport thing later where Roy Keane described him as the best manager he'd ever played for.

The role of the football manager demands that he (not she, the PC woke equality brigade can fuck right off) knows the game, can spot a player and inspires them to overachieve. On all basic counts, McInnes fails. He doesn't connect with winners, never having been one himself and he is never going to be one. His personality is all wrong. He has cultivated a "tv persona" that comes across as articulate and professional but this is a contrivance to disguise his inadequacies and to further his selfish agenda. This is why some use the word charlatan. He's a prize charlatan and he recruits people like him (losers) or people who will like him who won't be difficult to manage (losers).

[RicoS321]

27 minutes ago, Donofanewera said:

Some of the reasons to defend the useless manager on this thread show the problem, a lot of our fans have no expectation of success and are happy with mediocrity as long as the can feel like superfans buying things like DNA.
 

We continuously sit back against bang average teams and didn’t register a shot on target at home 

 

 

Who are the bang average teams? The huns? They're not an average team and you'd have to have a fair bias to suggest so. They're a good team, with several good players. To me, that shows the lack of nuance in your argument. Your pish about superfans, not expecting success and happy with mediocrity highlights that. Nobody is actually defending McInnes on this thread, if you read it. They're just not calling for him to be sacked. There's a massive fucking difference. Every post in this thread is critical of all or part of McInnes' game and of the club's approach. Every single one. Either argue against those individual points or don't, bit don't throw up straw men about DNA or some other shite. You're arguing that we should sack the manager after one game of the season when we're playing with zero crowds and zero income. The onus is on you to explain in detail why that's a good idea and what we'd do next.

[rocket_scientist]

The only straws that I can see are the ones you are clutching at.

DNA was a cynical ploy to exploit the fans. It was stealing from the most loyal customers.

It's not one game. It's many years, coming up to a whole decade.

Either you understand that McInnes is no use or you can't see it.

It was because of the blindness of too many Aberdeen fans that Calderwood lasted as long as he did and McInnes is still failing and flailing. The same blindness failed to see the damage that Milne did to the club. It's not like you weren't warned for TWENTY FIVE FUCKING YEARS!

[rocket_scientist]

Milne didn't only appoint a string of many useless managers, he threw the chequebook at the current inept cunt.

DNA was his last scheme to steal money from the customers. His first one was the PLC shares scheme, followed by the rights issue years later. These schemes netted millions.

I lost money in the first shares issue, as 3,000 of us did but I knew at the time I was making an emotional investment, not a financial one and I could afford it. The only benefit we were supposed to be getting was priority for tickets but he took that away from us later, not that it matters any more as the product isn't worth watching.

But as Dubya famously said, "fool me once, but I won't be buying your hershey bars the next time", or something similar. DNA was a disgrace and an affront to the club's history, a capitalist "market-driven" move that an American might be proud of, if they had the wherewithal to see the bigger picture. 

[royal deeside cowie]

It's words like these that convince me that in another life we could have been brothers. 

[RicoS321]

20 minutes ago, rocket_scientist said:

The only straws that I can see are the ones you are clutching at.

DNA was a cynical ploy to exploit the fans. It was stealing from the most loyal customers.

It's not one game. It's many years, coming up to a whole decade.

Either you understand that McInnes is no use or you can't see it.

It was because of the blindness of too many Aberdeen fans that Calderwood lasted as long as he did and McInnes is still failing and flailing. The same blindness failed to see the damage that Milne did to the club. It's not like you weren't warned for TWENTY FIVE FUCKING YEARS!

Of course DNA was, and nearly everyone on here said so. It also has fuck all to do with McInnes leaving and nobody has argued that point or competed to be a superfan. That's why it is a straw man. Just like you adding the bit about Milne in. That's a totally different argument. A very valid one that virtually nobody here would disagree with. Even the argument about Calderwood is superfluous, most folk were in agreement that Calderwood was sacked correctly and had likely been suggesting it in the lead up. I think you'd struggle to find a person on this forum that didn't think that way. There's no blindness about McInnes, you're presenting it as if we're suggesting that McInnes is the answer to all our problems. Most on here are recognising his successes and highlighting his obvious flaws. I'm suggesting ways that the club could mitigate those and help the manager, whilst building a strong foundation for the next manager and you're suggesting that we just find the perfect manager. I think your way is unrealistic and I think it'll lead to us having to find another manager, and another manager in perpetuity. If anything, your way is to continue the Milne approach. Throwing all responsibility on the shoulders of one man is an idiotic way to run a club as has been shown on every occasion in the last 25 years. Even more so when the pool of managers available are no better than McInnes. I want the guy to step up, do what we're paying him to do and have the club do everything in their power to force him to get better in the areas that he's failing in - for him to take responsibility for them. Start by removing him from most of the recruitment work, the youth setup and sports science areas and instead give him targets that he must meet (50% success rate on integrating signings into the first eleven, 2 youth team players introduced in any given season with X no of minutes, 1 trophy every 2-3 years etc). There has to be no doubt, and no complaints when he goes and it has to be this season if things haven't improved. You're trying to paint it as a black and white issue, I don't believe it is. For the record, if we'd finished last season and remained in fourth (or worse), I'd have wanted McInnes to leave. The pandemic either let him off the hook, or it didn't allow him to prove folk wrong, so he gets the best part of this season instead.

[rocket_scientist]

18 minutes ago, royal deeside cowie said:

It's words like these that convince me that in another life we could have been brothers. 

I doubt that I would come from the same genetic and environmental background as a sick cunt who invoked the wife of another in an attempt to be funny (or in attempted provocation?) on a forum designed for those with common interests to enjoy.

You should check out the hat. You'll find your brothers there. 

[Panda]

This will be Derek McInnes' last season anyway (in my opinion).

He technically has five chances to win a trophy this season, but realistically it's three. If he wins one of the cups he'll have finally joined a small group of managers to win multiple trophies at Aberdeen and will walk away with his head held high.

Or, this season will be another failure in which case he won't get another season anyway.

He's going nowhere until summer. 

[RicoS321]

47 minutes ago, Panda said:

This will be Derek McInnes' last season anyway (in my opinion).

He technically has five chances to win a trophy this season, but realistically it's three. If he wins one of the cups he'll have finally joined a small group of managers to win multiple trophies at Aberdeen and will walk away with his head held high.

Or, this season will be another failure in which case he won't get another season anyway.

He's going nowhere until summer. 

Or he'll finish third, nine points ahead of the others and gets to two finals and gets another chance. I think a lot will depend on the Covid situation. You want a new manager bounce when making a change and I'm not sure that will have the same affect without fans in the stands. The excitement just won't be there.

I'm no optimist, but I have a feeling that Deek lifting the Scottish cup in May - our fourth trophy of the season - will complete a new era for the country; unilateral independence having been declared, following the Holyrood election two days' earlier.

[tup1]

The football is dire.

I'd like to see more of us playing like we did in the 2nd half at Killie in the cup. Just go for it and commit everyone forward. We can surely outscore most teams that way.

I also thought that would be Bryson done after his first half performance in that game and getting hooked at half time. But here he is again this season, just as bad as he was last season.

 

 

[Panda]

Bryson actually put in more challenges than anyone else, won most of his 50/50 challenges, won the majority of his headers, and won more free-kicks than anyone else in red (source: Opta).

He wasn't the worst by a long stretch. Certainly better than Ojo and Ferguson.