Dons v Victim FC - Match Thread (Sunday 25/10)

[BigAl]

Where's Manc when you need him. Thursday and no weekend match thread 

As I've stated elsewhere hoping that they get a right good doing on Thursday evening and are feeling sorry for themselves off the back of two comprehensive defeats.

A little early to predict the team as we await injury updates on Hayes & Edmondson as well as those currently on their way back from longer term injuries.

One wish obviously for the game. please don't leave anything out there guys. This lot are vulnerable and there to be beaten. Derek don't try another of your game management masterclasses where you worry about their strengths instead of playing to ours.

Out - obviously

Walking dog on the beach

TV

Doing my radio show

2-1 (Hedges and Considine)

[TheDeeDon]

I'd happily take a defeat in this one if it meant a result in the semi. Of course being greedy I want both wins, but a cup final against Hibs or Hearts would be a great chance to bring this 30 year wait to an end.

Celtic regardless of problems will be a hard game, but feel if we don't revert to the old tombola and play to our strengths and to hell with containment we have as good a chance as any.

2-1 us Considine and an dubious injury time pen from Big Sam to GIRFU

COYR

[RicoS321]

Hate the fact that we've got two games in succession against them, it always seems to cause a tactical dilemma. I think we need to go for two entirely different approaches in these games, but I don't know which order I'd do it in! The bottom line is, they're a better team than us, so we need to get it spot on tactically and work out the best way to beat them. We showed in the last two games that we can go all at teams for 20-30 minutes, so we'll need to time that to perfection and hope that we get a goal out of it. Back that up with extreme discipline, slowing the game down, making it difficult, fouling etc and we could get a victory. I disagree that we don't need to worry about their strengths, I think that would be "Brian Rice" niave. They have a good team with some very good players who we simply need to cater for. That approach is fine for most games where we can expect to be the better team for 60-70 minutes of a game, but I just don't think that's fair or realistic against the Tim. It's all about picking the right time to have a go at them and taking our chances, whether it be a concerted 25 minutes or, more likely, three 10 minute spells where we press them and try and turn them over and grab a goal. As Hamilton showed, pressing a team that's better at fitba than you can lead to you being overrun and chasing the game.

Hayes will be a massive miss if he's not fit. I'm not sure about Edmondson still, but a player of his style might be beneficial. I'd go 3-5-2, with Ferguson, McGeouch and McRorie providing the solid midfield. Watkins and Edmondson or Wright and Hedges and Hayes/McLennan on the left.

[tup1]

Celtic are pretty weak just now. Their best players seem to have downed tools almost. I'd imagine a few of them are desperate to leave.

Plus they will have no fans polluting the South Stand.

We should be looking for at least a draw. We are playing well enough to beat them. But only with our best players available. The quality drops off a cliff on the bench for us. We should above all stick to the formation of the last two games, and one that has served us well this season. If we go all defensive, we will get what we deserve for doing that, beaten, as we've seen a number of times in the last few seasons.

Taylor is the big worry. He can hardly defend.

[TheDeeDon]

I think playing without fans is hurting the victims and whilst I don't think they are shyte the are certainly beatable, but equally capable of wiping out any team in Scotland when they are on their game.

Gash can defend and has done so for us on many occasions, but also capable letting himself and the team down, but who do we replace him with that isn't equally as problematic? I don't want to see McRorie in defence as that would weaken us in midfield.

All we can hope for is a good team performance with no horror shows from anyone and Celtic have an off day.

[RicoS321]

3 hours ago, tup1 said:

The quality drops off a cliff on the bench for us.

I don't think that's entirely true. We've got a decent squad of 16 or so. Even Woods is probably a half decent sub goalie. Defence and left wing back would be the only weak spots on the bench, although that could be slightly mitigated by Leigh and Devlin returning.

For the Tims games, barring injury, we shouldn't be down to the dregs of Ojo. The midfield three of McGeouch, McRorie and Ferguson will pick themselves and if we need to attack, then we bring on Wright, McGinn, McLennan, Kennedy etc.

Lewis/Woods

Logan/Hoban/Devlin/Taylor/Considine/Leigh

McLennan/Kennedy/Ferguson/McRorie/McGeouch/Hayes/Hedges

McGinn/Edmondson/Wright/Watkins/Cosgrove

There's 20 good enough for a starting place against the Tim (I'm being generous with Devlin because he's nearly as good as Taylor depending on which Taylor turns up. Thinning that out to allow for 3-5 subs and you'd have a pretty capable 16

 

[tup1]

39 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I don't think that's entirely true. We've got a decent squad of 16 or so. Even Woods is probably a half decent sub goalie. Defence and left wing back would be the only weak spots on the bench, although that could be slightly mitigated by Leigh and Devlin returning.

For the Tims games, barring injury, we shouldn't be down to the dregs of Ojo. The midfield three of McGeouch, McRorie and Ferguson will pick themselves and if we need to attack, then we bring on Wright, McGinn, McLennan, Kennedy etc.

Lewis/Woods

Logan/Hoban/Devlin/Taylor/Considine/Leigh

McLennan/Kennedy/Ferguson/McRorie/McGeouch/Hayes/Hedges

McGinn/Edmondson/Wright/Watkins/Cosgrove

There's 20 good enough for a starting place against the Tim (I'm being generous with Devlin because he's nearly as good as Taylor depending on which Taylor turns up. Thinning that out to allow for 3-5 subs and you'd have a pretty capable 16

 

I'd go with basically the same starting line up as against Hamilton, but one change, McRorie back in for McGeouch.

But Edmondson will likely make way for another midfield player. Wright must start the game, he's our most creative player.

[Elgindon]

Be interested to know the stats,but if we havnt actually conceded more goals when we try to game manage,we certainly seem(to me) to look more likely to concede when we do. If Hayes is fit,I would continue as we have been until such times etc. It would at least be interesting to find out since it looks like we have players that can hurt teams now.

 i'll go for a Budgie,2004/5 type performance. 2 - 3 Dons, Hayes,Edmundson with Considinho crashing a last minute header in

[LA-Don]

7 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Hate the fact that we've got two games in succession against them, it always seems to cause a tactical dilemma. I think we need to go for two entirely different approaches in these games, but I don't know which order I'd do it in! The bottom line is, they're a better team than us, so we need to get it spot on tactically and work out the best way to beat them. We showed in the last two games that we can go all at teams for 20-30 minutes, so we'll need to time that to perfection and hope that we get a goal out of it. Back that up with extreme discipline, slowing the game down, making it difficult, fouling etc and we could get a victory. I disagree that we don't need to worry about their strengths, I think that would be "Brian Rice" niave. They have a good team with some very good players who we simply need to cater for. That approach is fine for most games where we can expect to be the better team for 60-70 minutes of a game, but I just don't think that's fair or realistic against the Tim. It's all about picking the right time to have a go at them and taking our chances, whether it be a concerted 25 minutes or, more likely, three 10 minute spells where we press them and try and turn them over and grab a goal. As Hamilton showed, pressing a team that's better at fitba than you can lead to you being overrun and chasing the game.

Hayes will be a massive miss if he's not fit. I'm not sure about Edmondson still, but a player of his style might be beneficial. I'd go 3-5-2, with Ferguson, McGeouch and McRorie providing the solid midfield. Watkins and Edmondson or Wright and Hedges and Hayes/McLennan on the left.

I don't agree with you Rico, and I don't think Aberdeen v Celtic can be compared to us v Hamilton. In my opinion we've got tactics wrong twice this year, both in games equivalent to Celtic.......huns and sporting......and got nothing from either game. We are not an overly strong defensive team, both Gash and Andy are liable to provide the odd fuck up and cost goals, and the more we sit back, the more pressure on them. Plus we don't have the squad depth at present if defenders pick up injuries. Defend higher up the park with 5/6 in midfield and the forward(s) and it's less pressure on our defense/weakness. On the rare occasion we had a go (the cup final with the tic in 2017) fatigue kicked in and we ran out of steam and lost at the death......we have FIVE subs to use on Sunday, let's use them!

It's also hard to sit back and give a team the ball for any length of time. That usually gives the opponent, often been Celtic, confidence and comfort on the ball, and we inevitably give up a goal. We give them momentum. Very hard to come back against Celtic (huns, sporting) once we've gone behind. It's also tough turning a 5-3-2 into a 3-5-2 in the middle of a game when the opponent has increased in confidence and our wing backs have gotten used to sitting back and the opponent is pressing us. At that point it's hard to attack with numbers and we end up going long ball and chase with an isolated forward, and the team doesn't get forward in support.

Rarely has our old firm tactics worked. We go at them and win or lose 3-2 or the likes. Celtic are vulnerable, confidence has rocked a little, why give them time to settle and get comfortable? Of all games this is the one to get stuck in and have a go. If you're boxing against a quality fighter and you know they have been rocked, do you sit back and let them recover for the fear of getting exposed in attack, or do you try to finish them?

I fear we lose 2-0, having sat back and been punished cos DM shat it. Then again, as I posted on the Hamilton thread, our style of play this season has been drastically different to the last few years, I wonder if our approach to Celtic will differ too. I totally believe Cormack has spoken to DM about the product on the park. He also must have clearly heard fan discontent, curious to see if that has an impact on Sunday.

Edited October 22, 2020 by LA-Don

[tup1]

Call it overly optimistic, but I’m looking for us to beat them twice in a week.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Elgindon said:

Be interested to know the stats,but if we havnt actually conceded more goals when we try to game manage,we certainly seem(to me) to look more likely to concede when we do. If Hayes is fit,I would continue as we have been until such times etc. It would at least be interesting to find out since it looks like we have players that can hurt teams now.

Not this season, no. We lost one goal from game management this weekend, and one whilst being on the attack. We've had many clean sheets, and game management has probably been applied in the closing stages of all those games suggesting it has been succesful. Livingston was the only other game we lost a goal from being a couple up and then we managed the game through to the end. Also, I wouldn't describe the Hamilton game at the weekend as game management, it was more about trying out a formation before the weekend and giving guys like Ojo a run out in the unlikely event he might be needed and probably to keep the squad happy.

[RicoS321]

9 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

I don't agree with you Rico, and I don't think Aberdeen v Celtic can be compared to us v Hamilton. In my opinion we've got tactics wrong twice this year, both in games equivalent to Celtic.......huns and sporting......and got nothing from either game. We are not an overly strong defensive team, both Gash and Andy are liable to provide the odd fuck up and cost goals, and the more we sit back, the more pressure on them. Plus we don't have the squad depth at present if defenders pick up injuries. Defend higher up the park with 5/6 in midfield and the forward(s) and it's less pressure on our defense/weakness. On the rare occasion we had a go (the cup final with the tic in 2017) fatigue kicked in and we ran out of steam and lost at the death......we have FIVE subs to use on Sunday, let's use them!

It's also hard to sit back and give a team the ball for any length of time. That usually gives the opponent, often been Celtic, confidence and comfort on the ball, and we inevitably give up a goal. We give them momentum. Very hard to come back against Celtic (huns, sporting) once we've gone behind. It's also tough turning a 5-3-2 into a 3-5-2 in the middle of a game when the opponent has increased in confidence and our wing backs have gotten used to sitting back and the opponent is pressing us. At that point it's hard to attack with numbers and we end up going long ball and chase with an isolated forward, and the team doesn't get forward in support.

Rarely has our old firm tactics worked. We go at them and win or lose 3-2 or the likes. Celtic are vulnerable, confidence has rocked a little, why give them time to settle and get comfortable? Of all games this is the one to get stuck in and have a go. If you're boxing against a quality fighter and you know they have been rocked, do you sit back and let them recover for the fear of getting exposed in attack, or do you try to finish them?

I fear we lose 2-0, having sat back and been punished cos DM shat it. Then again, as I posted on the Hamilton thread, our style of play this season has been drastically different to the last few years, I wonder if our approach to Celtic will differ too. I totally believe Cormack has spoken to DM about the product on the park. He also must have clearly heard fan discontent, curious to see if that has an impact on Sunday.

I agree with your last point, but I also think that we have the personnel this season that helps in that regard. McInnes has had us playing great football in the past, but when he doesn't trust his team, he reverts to stuffy shite, and I don't think he's trusted his team - probably correctly - for a few seasons now (since Hayes left).

Defend higher up the park and we possibly get caught for pace at the back, but I sort of agree with your point. The problem with it, as I mentioned, is that we don't have the fitness or concentration levels to do that for 90 minutes, which is why I would rather we took the game to them at various points of the game. That's what we did when we beat them a few seasons back and got close in the final and the games where we've beaten the hun too (large spells of all those games they were given plenty of possession in front of a very organised dons). Whether that be the opening 20 minutes or whatever, I don't really care. You could see guys like Wright and Watkins slowing down in the last 30 minutes against Hamilton, I see no reason that wouldn't happen against a better team. I just don't think it's realistic or fair to expect us to press or hold a high line for 90 minutes. You're right, the subs need to be used, used earlier and used more effectively. It's a real weakness in McInnes' game (although Clarke for Scotland seems to have taken it to a whole new level of procrastination). He has his 65-70 minute sub where he takes off Wright and then his 80-85th minute and it's all very championship manager.

Two easy victories.

 

 

[LA-Don]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

I agree with your last point, but I also think that we have the personnel this season that helps in that regard. McInnes has had us playing great football in the past, but when he doesn't trust his team, he reverts to stuffy shite, and I don't think he's trusted his team - probably correctly - for a few seasons now (since Hayes left).

Defend higher up the park and we possibly get caught for pace at the back, but I sort of agree with your point. The problem with it, as I mentioned, is that we don't have the fitness or concentration levels to do that for 90 minutes, which is why I would rather we took the game to them at various points of the game. That's what we did when we beat them a few seasons back and got close in the final and the games where we've beaten the hun too (large spells of all those games they were given plenty of possession in front of a very organised dons). Whether that be the opening 20 minutes or whatever, I don't really care. You could see guys like Wright and Watkins slowing down in the last 30 minutes against Hamilton, I see no reason that wouldn't happen against a better team. I just don't think it's realistic or fair to expect us to press or hold a high line for 90 minutes. You're right, the subs need to be used, used earlier and used more effectively. It's a real weakness in McInnes' game (although Clarke for Scotland seems to have taken it to a whole new level of procrastination). He has his 65-70 minute sub where he takes off Wright and then his 80-85th minute and it's all very championship manager.

Two easy victories.

 

 

I don't think any team can go all out attack for 90 minutes, unless the opponent sits back and lets you do that. But we've been guilty of the latter or opposite, sitting back so much that we barely attack and when we do it tends to be an isolated 1 v 4 or long ball, and little support or success. Dare I suggest a normal approach, not all out attack, but not sit back and absorb, but just go play to our strengths. Let the players play rather than over complicate against a normal opponent. I often think DM overthinks these games and makes it harder than it needs to be. Celtic have dropped plenty of points against other Scottish teams in recent years who just go and play, they don't overly defend like we do.

I'm not watching Celtic right now, but 0-2 at HT. Curious to see if tonight makes you think any differently. Obviously Celtic can come back in the second half or they could get a 3 or 4 goal pumping. In my eyes, Celtic are vulnerable at the moment, and I hope DM takes advantage of that. 

[tup1]

Celtic are very poor at the moment. There for the taking by any decent standard opponents.

[RicoS321]

29 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

I don't think any team can go all out attack for 90 minutes, unless the opponent sits back and lets you do that. But we've been guilty of the latter or opposite, sitting back so much that we barely attack and when we do it tends to be an isolated 1 v 4 or long ball, and little support or success. Dare I suggest a normal approach, not all out attack, but not sit back and absorb, but just go play to our strengths. Let the players play rather than over complicate against a normal opponent. I often think DM overthinks these games and makes it harder than it needs to be. Celtic have dropped plenty of points against other Scottish teams in recent years who just go and play, they don't overly defend like we do.

I'm not watching Celtic right now, but 0-2 at HT. Curious to see if tonight makes you think any differently. Obviously Celtic can come back in the second half or they could get a 3 or 4 goal pumping. In my eyes, Celtic are vulnerable at the moment, and I hope DM takes advantage of that. 

Yep, I think your second paragraph is pertinent, they're not on a high, but they also might have a point to prove. Christie makes a big difference to them too, which is annoying.

Celtic haven't dropped plenty of points to other teams. I put a thing up the season before last showing deek's record v Tims and everyone else's and there was no real difference. Killie and Hibs had an extra win from memory and everyone else had similar to us. I don't think that's changed. Hibs got a couple of glorious draws under Lennon. Clarke too. But none really went for it, they generally did the same as we do. 

I agree that we've been guilty of sitting back too much, but that's not what my original post suggested at all. Our strengths are being organised and not shipping goals and being fast on the break. All of which we can do. But the suggestion that we play to our strengths completely ignored the fact that we will be playing a team who are also playing to their strengths. If they're better at that than us, then we inevitably will not be playing to our strengths. It's just too simplistic. But in the end, we're likely asking for the same thing, which is that we give a performance like the cup final or the parkhead game a few years back.

[wee toon red]

The Tims have been shite for a game and half trying to play 3 at the back but when they went to 4-5-1 in the second half they were better. Bet they don't play three at the back on Saturday.

[manc_don]

15 hours ago, BigAl said:

Where's Manc when you need him. Thursday and no weekend match thread 

As I've stated elsewhere hoping that they get a right good doing on Thursday evening and are feeling sorry for themselves off the back of two comprehensive defeats.

A little early to predict the team as we await injury updates on Hayes & Edmondson as well as those currently on their way back from longer term injuries.

One wish obviously for the game. please don't leave anything out there guys. This lot are vulnerable and there to be beaten. Derek don't try another of your game management masterclasses where you worry about their strengths instead of playing to ours.

Out - obviously

Walking dog on the beach

TV

Doing my radio show

2-1 (Hedges and Considine)

Sorry, been laid up for nearly a week with gastro...all of us had it, barely been able to look at a computer screen. Anyway, back in the game and thank you to you and Jute for filling in the blanks in my absence 

[BigAl]

7 hours ago, manc_don said:

Sorry, been laid up for nearly a week with gastro...all of us had it, barely been able to look at a computer screen. Anyway, back in the game and thank you to you and Jute for filling in the blanks in my absence 

Get well soon mate.

Good performance and three points on Sunday to aid thee recovery.

[LA-Don]

Interesting to see the Tic game as the first post on Ebbe's thread. If we can attack and beat Celtic with Sutton, Larson,. Petrov, Hartson etc., when we had Dadi, the Young bros, and Derek Whyte, why can't we attack and beat them on Sunday?

[Jute]

We should be looking to press this mob from the off. Last thing we should be doing is standing off them and giving them possession to build confidence. Thing is standing off sitting deep is what I expect McInnes have us do. 
 

oot

out on bike if not pissing down

TV

flat

2-0 no dons scorer. 

[tom_widdows]

39 minutes ago, Jute said:

We should be looking to press this mob from the off. Last thing we should be doing is standing off them and giving them possession to build confidence. Thing is standing off sitting deep is what I expect McInnes have us do. 
 

oot

out on bike if not pissing down

TV

flat

2-0 no dons scorer. 

2 Scott Browns OGs?

 

 

[manc_don]

Suppose the good thing about this fixture is, that I never ever have any optimism or hope due to being burnt far too often. Despite their apparent disarray and rumours re: Lemon, I still think DM will stifle us. Would love to wake up to a positive result, but anything is a bonus nowadays. 

[LA-Don]

Off to bed. Usually set the alarm for 4am and get up to watch, and by 5:30 furious I gave up sleep and got up to watch such a shitty defensive lame ass performance and loss. So, no alarm and unlikely I’ll see it. Hope to wake to a superb result and read about an outstandingly brave attacking performance. Brian a Rice bravery/stupidity approach and it’s 3-2 us!

[Jute]

6 hours ago, manc_don said:

Suppose the good thing about this fixture is, that I never ever have any optimism or hope due to being burnt far too often. Despite their apparent disarray and rumours re: Lemon, I still think DM will stifle us. Would love to wake up to a positive result, but anything is a bonus nowadays. 

Stop trying to kid folk. We all know you love doing the huddle.

[manc_don]

2 hours ago, Jute said:

Stop trying to kid folk. We all know you love doing the huddle.

The things I did for this forum eh