Atlantic League

[Jute]

Sticking this in here as it seems to be being pushed by our chairman. Not impressed with this at all. Basically us joining old firm and fucking off to leave rest of Scottish football behind. Anyone see a reason to back this?

Apologies for the source.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-cormack-urges-celtic-u-23155910

As an aside the more I hear from Cormack the less I like. 

 

[tom_widdows]

It would certainly increase the chances of me 'fucking off' and leaving Aberdeen FC behind.

Calling it the Atlantic league is bizarre anyway given only two of the countries involved have Atlantic coastlines. 


 

[RicoS321]

It was/is the obvious next step, hence the yank investment in our game. There was always going to be some elaborate scheme. It's clear there's been an attempt to create a second tier of teams with enhanced budget for likes of us, Hibs etc. making a bigger gap between us and the rest. Basically doing what the scum do currently, gaining access to a league where being in that league allows you to buy your way back in yearly. More trickle down pish. It's a shame, but Cormack is just doing what Milne would have had he the support to get it through. I don't really see eye to eye with AFC on most off the field matters, I have long accepted that they are not representative of my beliefs, and maybe that's fine. This is just another step in the widening gap. 

[DantheDon]

I think there is a lot of foreshadowing of these sort of things happening at the moment so I can see why Cormack is probably trying to get us involved and protect our interests. In its current form the proposal sounds pretty horrible to me. I'd be more in favour of scrapping the league cup and having some sort of northern Europe cup, but not the whole league. I don't necessarily think increased European competitions are a bad thing but obviously they will become a closed shop unless there is a more even distribution of the prize money.

There was recent BBC survey of fans (only in England) that didn't show great support for a European super cup: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55159249 

[LA-Don]

6 hours ago, Jute said:

Sticking this in here as it seems to be being pushed by our chairman. Not impressed with this at all. Basically us joining old firm and fucking off to leave rest of Scottish football behind. Anyone see a reason to back this?

Apologies for the source.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dave-cormack-urges-celtic-u-23155910

As an aside the more I hear from Cormack the less I like. 

 

I see Cormack as, while a Scot, an American type of owner. I don’t think he ultimately cares about the tradition of Scottish football, but more about the future and financials of the club. He’s open to new thinking, new ideas, and progression, not so much keeping a Scottish league together. Just my opinion...

[Elgindon]

Happy to let the Infirm do their thing and leave us to get on with it.That would be progression...

 

 

 

 

[Jute]

57 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

I see Cormack as, while a Scot, an American type of owner. I don’t think he ultimately cares about the tradition of Scottish football, but more about the future and financials of the club. He’s open to new thinking, new ideas, and progression, not so much keeping a Scottish league together. Just my opinion...

Don’t see playing league games against Bohemians or Lyngby as progression myself. 

[LA-Don]

I think progression to Cormack is making the club more financial sound, and making the football more appealing to fans. Perhaps he sees playing bohemians or lyngby more appealing to many than playing the same old teams year after year. Personally I find Scottish football incredibly boring, same old year after year, and recall playing someone 7 times on season, maybe Dundee Utd?? It’s stale and has been for a while now. Something difference would be nice and refreshing........but living 6000 miles away I’m not that one traveling to games so those fans may well have a different take.

As for the different approach, punting the old firm, it would be a far more interesting league without them, and I’d love to see a 16 team league, play the same team twice. The argument against end of season meaningless games allows teams the opportunity to really develop youngsters which all teams need. Since that would be less league games, I’d love a return of the old league cup, group games followed by home and away legs in the knock out rounds. 

[RicoS321]

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

I think progression to Cormack is making the club more financial sound, and making the football more appealing to fans. Perhaps he sees playing bohemians or lyngby more appealing to many than playing the same old teams year after year. Personally I find Scottish football incredibly boring, same old year after year, and recall playing someone 7 times on season, maybe Dundee Utd?? It’s stale and has been for a while now. Something difference would be nice and refreshing........but living 6000 miles away I’m not that one traveling to games so those fans may well have a different take.

As for the different approach, punting the old firm, it would be a far more interesting league without them, and I’d love to see a 16 team league, play the same team twice. The argument against end of season meaningless games allows teams the opportunity to really develop youngsters which all teams need. Since that would be less league games, I’d love a return of the old league cup, group games followed by home and away legs in the knock out rounds. 

Agree with your second paragraph. Thing is, it doesn't need to be without the scum, that's just an option! Their elevated position has been entirely manufactured over the last thirty years with ridiculous levels of spending based on funding gained from their participation in our league. I'd far rather see we tackled that part of the game first and create a truly competitive league first, because that's what sport should be about. I wouldn't want a 16 team league where we become the new Tims or Huns. Make it a truly equitable setup, with the only entry qualification being that you're a full time club. 

I think your right about Cormack too. The frustrating thing is that, like Milne, he's never asked the fans what they want. He's unilaterally deciding what's best for AFC and Scottish fitba. Millionaire pays his money, gets to choose. Of course, like the move to Aberdeenshire, it would be presented as the big shiny new thing with no possible alternative. They'll be a big fanfare, that'll win over the gullible, with the "opportunity" to pick the new Atlantic league theme tune to be belted out when the players line up, along with various meaningless consultations to make it seem like the fans are involved, conveniently ignoring the fact that the only decision that matters has already been made on our behalf (would you like safe standing in your atrociously located new stadium?). Like it or not, we have absolutely zero say in the running of our team or league.

Edited December 13, 2020 by RicoS321

[Panda]

I'm not too sure about an Atlantic League, but would love to see some sort of Atlantic Cup in place. Either straight knockout or two-legged affair with the Scandinavian & Irish teams.

A cup final jaunt to Gothenburg anyone?

[tup1]

This Atlantic league nonsense has always been a bad idea and that has not changed.

Sort our domestic league out and the fans will come back. If it stays as it is now, we're fucked. 

Huns have had McLean and Dallas as refs in last two games, albeit Dallas got himself injured in the warm up the other night. They basically have their own supporters refereeing their games.

Cormack needs to tackle that rather than airy fairy nonsense about Atlantic leagues. 

[Jute]

26 minutes ago, Panda said:

I'm not too sure about an Atlantic League, but would love to see some sort of Atlantic Cup in place. Either straight knockout or two-legged affair with the Scandinavian & Irish teams.

A cup final jaunt to Gothenburg anyone?

When do you play it?

Using the leagues suggested for the league Ireland, Norway and Sweden have summer seasons while Scotland and Denmark have winter seasons. Plus you have you European games to fit it round. You would probably be looking at teams who are in Europe being excluded so teams from 4th down qualifying. Cannot see that drawing in sponsorship. I am old enough to remember Texaco cup and Anglo Italian cup in England and both collapsed due to lack of fan interest. Cannot see this being any different. 

[tup1]

The question to be asked of Cormack and this dubious plan is, is the purpose of football to make money, or to provide healthy sporting competition?

He and a number of other chairmen have lost sight of the point of their job. It's to provide fans with entertainment, in the form of a fair and healthy domestic league. Not to make profit by whatever means necessary.

No wonder Scottish football is such a laughing stock. Naked greed and corruption has ruined us. He fails to recognise this and comes up with dodgy plans to make things even more unfair than they are already.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, tup1 said:

The question to be asked of Cormack and this dubious plan is, is the purpose of football to make money, or to provide healthy sporting competition?

He and a number of other chairmen have lost sight of the point of their job. It's to provide fans with entertainment, in the form of a fair and healthy domestic league. Not to make profit by whatever means necessary.

No wonder Scottish football is such a laughing stock. Naked greed and corruption has ruined us. He fails to recognise this and comes up with dodgy plans to make things even more unfair than they are already.

This is mindset, and the nature of chairmen in general - having made their money in the way they have (in the main). That's not a criticism, more an observation. However, it is also the nature of having football clubs setup as companies rather than, say, charities or some other bespoke type of entity. Cormack's job of ensuring that AFC returns a profit to its shareholders does not square with that of the promotion of a healthy sporting competition (in the short term). An entire league of competing interests, without a single unifying cause (Scottish football) all run by men with similar views by and large.

I disagree that Scottish football has been made a laughing stock by naked greed and corruption, we're just not as good at it as our neighbours to the South. Each and every league is setup in the same way, whether its the English league and the 6/7 teams that want to create a closed door European league, the Spanish with their top two, the French with PSG bought and paid for with dubious funds etc etc. We're not a laughing stock because nobody is watching us. Which is why there's such a huge opportunity in my opinion. It's not just Scotland that's crying out for a healthy sporting competition built on fairness, its all of Europe. If we could create a league that works together for the betterment of the league, where European money is split evenly, funds are not distributed on league placings, wage caps, co-ordinated youth development programs where no child is ever contracted (surely this is a basic human rights issue?) before hitting 16 or playing first team football (whichever comes first) and so on. It would make people sit up and take notice. People down South would tune in to our SPFL internet/TV channel to see things being done differently, with an emphasis on fitba as a sport and railing against players who get paid 5 times the national average wage every single week. It may even get players with a conscience coming here to play that wouldn't normally consider it. To make a league where everyone benefits from the success of the rest would be fantastic. I'd have no problem supporting the scum in Europe if it was something that would better Scottish football, and an ultra competitive league would do wonders for the game. Unfortunately, I suspect most Scottish football fans would disagree. They'd much prefer to blindly follow us to Westhill and beyond to the Atlantic league, picking up the crumbs from the scum-table and benchmarking ourselves uncritically against an ever widening gap.

[tup1]

57 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

This is mindset, and the nature of chairmen in general - having made their money in the way they have (in the main). That's not a criticism, more an observation. However, it is also the nature of having football clubs setup as companies rather than, say, charities or some other bespoke type of entity. Cormack's job of ensuring that AFC returns a profit to its shareholders does not square with that of the promotion of a healthy sporting competition (in the short term). An entire league of competing interests, without a single unifying cause (Scottish football) all run by men with similar views by and large.

I disagree that Scottish football has been made a laughing stock by naked greed and corruption, we're just not as good at it as our neighbours to the South. Each and every league is setup in the same way, whether its the English league and the 6/7 teams that want to create a closed door European league, the Spanish with their top two, the French with PSG bought and paid for with dubious funds etc etc. We're not a laughing stock because nobody is watching us. Which is why there's such a huge opportunity in my opinion. It's not just Scotland that's crying out for a healthy sporting competition built on fairness, its all of Europe. If we could create a league that works together for the betterment of the league, where European money is split evenly, funds are not distributed on league placings, wage caps, co-ordinated youth development programs where no child is ever contracted (surely this is a basic human rights issue?) before hitting 16 or playing first team football (whichever comes first) and so on. It would make people sit up and take notice. People down South would tune in to our SPFL internet/TV channel to see things being done differently, with an emphasis on fitba as a sport and railing against players who get paid 5 times the national average wage every single week. It may even get players with a conscience coming here to play that wouldn't normally consider it. To make a league where everyone benefits from the success of the rest would be fantastic. I'd have no problem supporting the scum in Europe if it was something that would better Scottish football, and an ultra competitive league would do wonders for the game. Unfortunately, I suspect most Scottish football fans would disagree. They'd much prefer to blindly follow us to Westhill and beyond to the Atlantic league, picking up the crumbs from the scum-table and benchmarking ourselves uncritically against an ever widening gap.

The English league is wide open. It's the best example in Europe of a fair sporting competition. Mainly because all the teams get the same money to begin with. It is structured in such a way that fairness is built into the money distribution.

That is not the case in Scotland. The vast majority of the cash finds it's way to two teams up here. Even with that in mind, one of those clubs collapsed with debts ranging anywhere from £70-£350m depending on who you believe.

Despite this obvious crime against our game, they were allowed to start back up again the following day, as if nothing happened. I'm afraid 2012 exposed epic corruption at the SFA. The English FA has no such problems.

It's not enough for us to say all other leagues are in the same boat. Some of them are, but I've yet to see fraud perpetrated in this way elsewhere, apart from in Italy, where the clubs were heavily punished and the cuplrits jailed.

No such sanction here. What we are still watching is a fraud. The underlying issue (cheating) was never addressed. Hence it continues. Celtic and new Rangers continue to carve up our league for their own benefit, to the total detriment of the other 40 clubs. I'm actually astounded it's now tolerated after what happened in 2012, but propaganda trumps truth in this country, hence the Aberdeen chairman has never mentioned this obvious problem since he came in.

[RicoS321]

Might as well leave this here

Dick

[manc_don]

Ffs, what steaming pile of pish, even by his standards

[Elgindon]

What an insult to the hard working wee teams.Ignorant twit

[tom_widdows]

The Jabbos?