Is a back 3 worth it?

[LA-Don]

Think it’s time to move to a back 4. We’re losing goals and losing games, and shit goals at that where we’ve been exposed in defense. Plus a back 4 allows the wingers to get forward to hopefully support and become a front 3/4 and hopefully less of the long ball shite. For the remaining games I’d like to see -

lewis

logan-Taylor-Hoban-considine

ferguson-mccrory

kennedy-McGinn-hayes

hornby/kamberi

The attacking 3 behind the forward can rotate, and let’s give Ethan Ross a chance if McGinn can’t last a game. Plus I’d be comfortable with Andy in the middle and hoban at LB.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by LA-Don

[RicoS321]

One thing that allowed us to play a 4-2-3-1 for much of deek's tenure was that by-in-large every other team played a 4. They don't now, and it causes problems. Livingston game showed that a three was fine when paired with a five in midfield. Earlier in the season, our three was very successful when we backed it up with fast attacking play. To be honest, it's our lack of ability in the final third and to retain possession high up the park that is of more concern than our defence. Guys playing all over the shop, being moved constantly and a complete lack of coherence has led to us being overrun and outnumbered far too often at the back. Against Hibs, we looked just as likely to lose a goal with Leigh at left back as we did after he went off, with the wing backs. But, basically, it absolutely depends on the opposition. Before anyone starts with the "let them think about us" nonsense, the notion that adding an extra man up front, or another in midfield can be ignored is silly (unless they're really pish). I think your 4-2-3-1 is fairly robust regardless of the opposition though, and I think you're right that it might suit the current personnel, especially with Hedges out. A 3-4-3 is probably too aspirational for our existing side, we simply don't have the dynamic to make it work without Wright/Hedges/Watkins, unfortunately. I'd probably ditch Hornby for Hendry though, who looks to be an improvement on Main. Hornby isn't match sharp and I don't think we can afford to dick about with him in the team, predictably (he's not a January signing for me, or at best a very high risk one). I'll hold fire on Kamberi until we see which one turns up.

[LA-Don]

I hear you but you have to fix a defense first. If we are losing goals and games players are less likely to push up knowing we’re suspect at the back and can get exposed. That’s why we are stretched and see a lot of long ball. With 4 back there ‘should’ be less holes. I also think we are getting exposed in the channels between 3 defenders, the livi header and hibs second yesterday would have possibly been prevented if we had two central defenders. Even yesterday’s penalty, it’s Ferguson back there instead of a RB or defenders. I also think Hoban and Andy still play a bit like LB and RB and there too much space centrally that’s killing us, especially when it ends up being big ash in the middle we are relying on.

Even with a 4 Logan and Andy/Hoban can push on a bit leaving two central defenders marking the single advanced forward. Plus with LB and RB pushing up the wingers push further up the park and we should see more numbers in the final third. I think we’ll get more from Hayes in an attacking sense if he doesn’t always have to bomb back to fill the hole a LB or RB would be in. Likewise Kennedy and McLennan. I have no issue with inverted wingers cutting in but that has to happen further up the park than we are currently seeing. I think hayes did it once yesterday and got a shot off, but once isn’t nearly enough obviously.

 I also think mcginn showed enough yesterday that he still has the ability to contribute. While the pace may not be there he’s got the ability to cause damage at #10. Adding the #9, If we get those 4 positions in the final third we do have creativity to cause problems, plus mccrory and or Ferguson supporting from deep. It’s just not happening in the current formation, in my opinion, because our width is not getting far enough up the park and quite often we have 5 defenders and 2 holding mids not pushing up enough.

Edited February 7, 2021 by LA-Don

[RicoS321]

I disagree about the source of the problem, our attack has been far more of an issue than our defence this season. I'd say that the long balls are from poor movement in front than sitting deep because of a shakey back line. Given the number of clean sheets we've had, the forward players would have a bit of a nerve blaming the back line this season.

 

All academic though, I think the 3-4-3 is definitely gone, but a 3-5-2 would probably be fine for us too. It does really depend on the opposition. It was noticeable how little Hoban went forward against Hibs compared to even a few weeks back, but the lack of Hedges and Wright has made the intelligent movement grind to a halt. I think you're right that the 4-2-3-1 will get the best out of those players unless Kamberi brings something unexpected. If we still had a lot of post split games against weaker opposition, I'd like to have seen us stick with the back three as I think the additional player is wasted against some of the dross (or should be!). Again, with Hoban and Considine piling up when numbers are required. Given we're so close to the split with the Tims to play twice (I think), we'd be as well getting a good run with a back four as it's the safer option with our attacking options.

[LA-Don]

While we’re not losing a lot of goals and games, we’re losing both right now. And we’re losing shit goals. Over the years we managed to eliminate this stuff but it’s back. If we want to win games and be more successful yes, we need to score, but we’ve also stop giving up shit gifts. We’ve drawing and losing to teams we used to beat. I don’t rate the Newcastle tactics of simply out scoring opponents, we’ve got to be tougher defensively.

[Jute]

Three was fine when it was Hoban, McKenna and Considine but now McKenna is away Taylor doesn’t have the positional discipline to play a three and Leigh is just shite. Agree we need to go back to a 4. I would have Hoban and Considine as centre backs and Logan and Hayes as fullbacks. Would think 5 in midfield (call it 2-3 if you must) is best option with the players we have. Not convinced that any of the three strikers are suited to play as lone striker but don’t think we have option of going with two strikers if we are abandoning 3 at the back.