Next Manager

[HaarDon]

7 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Does the team managed have any bearing on the ability of the manager? They have to start somewhere. Goodwin is already more experienced and lower risk than glass, Maloney, Fletcher etc. Is a successful manager at a lower club better than a failure at a bigger club, like Lambert? 

Are you saying someone who manages a club say in the 3rd tier of Scottish football brilliantly, has the ability to take us past the Europa qualifications? Or win us a cup or manage to build a team close to of winning the league?

I wouldnt think so.

Goodwin isnt an improvement on McInnes. I dont see him doing amazing things with St Mirren.

Maybe he's good enough for St Mirren but surely we aspire to more than a Scottish manager with a team currently in the middle of the table of a dire league.

I'd prefer someone who has experience of big matches personally, who has worked with great players and had the experience of success, who may have contacts or some nous about up and coming youth around Europe.

 

 

[HaarDon]

Ok so hands up for Goodwin?

[Kowalski]

Mate works for Ledingham Chalmers. 
This afternoon Steven Pressley was shown round two houses in Westhill. 

[BigAl]

5 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Christ must have Leigh Griffiths level of kids 

 

[Elgindon]

With Frank McGarveys housing tastes...

[tom_widdows]

1 hour ago, HaarDon said:

Ok so hands up for Goodwin?

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, HaarDon said:

Are you saying someone who manages a club say in the 3rd tier of Scottish football brilliantly, has the ability to take us past the Europa qualifications? Or win us a cup or manage to build a team close to of winning the league?

 

I wouldnt think so.

 

Goodwin isnt an improvement on McInnes. I dont see him doing amazing things with St Mirren.

 

Maybe he's good enough for St Mirren but surely we aspire to more than a Scottish manager with a team currently in the middle of the table of a dire league.

 

I'd prefer someone who has experience of big matches personally, who has worked with great players and had the experience of success, who may have contacts or some nous about up and coming youth around Europe.

Right, okay. I'm not advocating Goodwin, I'm suggesting he's better - or certainly less risky - than the other names mentioned.

You do realise that you're asking for quite a lot? Remember, if we're looking at league one in England for our players, then we're nae going to be signing a manager who's having great success in any top league in most of Europe. It's a bit like when we sign a player. You're either looking for someone who's had success previously, but hasn't for some time, maybe had some down time or whatever (call it the Bryson type appointment) and is looking for a way back in. Someone who's up and coming at a team lower than us in Scotland like Goodwin (the Kenny McLean equivalent), who we've caught just at the right moment in their career before bigger clubs take a risk. Someone doing similar to Goodwin in the European leagues, second tier probably who wants a bit of publicity in the UK and has so far flown under the radar (unlikely in today's market). Someone who's a number two, untested at managerial level, like Maloney who has played for some good teams and is looking for their first opportunity. 

I don't really buy into the experience of big matches personally, all teams have big matches, they're just relative. No manager worth their salt treats them any differently. It's the sort of thing the scum say when they sign a player or manager "....what it takes to play for Rangers/Celtic.." pish. It's fairly meaningless.

Personally, I'd like us to get a manager who's good enough to be attracting attention from other clubs in a couple of years.

[sancho_panza]

10 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Is a successful manager at a lower club better than a failure at a bigger club, like Lambert? I'd say so.

It depends on the manager obviously, but in general the failures at bigger clubs types have done quite well in Scotland. Steve Clarke was considered a failure at West Brom and Reading before he went to Killie. Rodgers was considered to be a bit of a busted flush when he went to Celtic. Management is about experience/judgement rather than form so it makes sense that people who have been higher up the food chain have some advantages.

Good managers can come from smaller clubs as well clearly, the problem is that by the law of averages someone is bound to be on a decent run getting a mediocre side up to sixth in the league. You can give a list of umpteen managers who did that and were flavour of the month over the last few decades (e.g. Gary Holt) and Goodwin is simply the current one. Maybe he is in fact different but to be honest I doubt he would actually do better than someone like Lambert in reality, he's just more popular.

[HaarDon]

I'm definitely asking for a lot.

Shouldnt we all?

I dont know the figures but someone last week showed the financial input of the very rich board we have.

If they want a return on their investment then take a punt on a fantastic manager.

There's loads out there.

I suggested one 2 weeks ago who is probably eligible if the right offer was on the table.

Push for it.

Why are we settling for the best of a Scottish bunch who have done nothing remarkable in management?

I would be happier with Maloney out of that lot simply because he's been with Belgium and a hugely successful brilliant team who play superb attacking football.

But he's not proven in management so still a big risk there.

I think Cormack wants results long term and the board see major changes.

I hope.

[Slim]

What does Maloney contribute to Belgium’s playing style? He’s basically there just to put out the cones for training a couple of times a year.

[HaarDon]

25 minutes ago, Slim said:

What does Maloney contribute to Belgium’s playing style? He’s basically there just to put out the cones for training a couple of times a year.

Think you're being a bit rough on him there.

He studies some of the best players all around Europe and makes reports on them then discusses their role with Martinez (manager of the best team on the planet for a tiny country with a similar population to ours)

Making a detailed analysis on how players play in the big leagues of Europe and coaching top players for the best team in the world alongside Thierry Henry (a legend in football) , exemplifies a pretty good pedigree.

I dont think Glass or Goodwin are anywhere near that quality of information or experience.

 

 

[manc_don]

6 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

Latest AFC here we go podcast is really good.  Speak to a guy from atalanta on what glass has been up to out there.  He sounded very switched on and spoke very highly of glass.  Also had Derek rae on to talk about the dof structure at German clubs.  

Had a listen on the way into work this morning. Was a good listen and everyone had interesting inputs on the debate. Whether the journalist had to say what he was saying I don’t know, but on the face of it, he spoke very highly of Glass and what he’d been asked to do and achieved thus far at Atlanta. He’s no record breaker but he does sound like he’s a good student of the game. Just not sure. I mean, I guess no one does really. We all have to hope it works out. Kinda has an air of inevitability about it though. 

the boy from DST is clearly a special level of delusion.

[DantheDon]

7 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

It was Pressley who was the boyhood dandy though. Foster has always been a hun, so it was fair enough for him to go.

OK, cheers for clearing that up. Too many names flying around in this thread. 

[RedStarTorphins]

2 hours ago, manc_don said:

Had a listen on the way into work this morning. Was a good listen and everyone had interesting inputs on the debate. Whether the journalist had to say what he was saying I don’t know, but on the face of it, he spoke very highly of Glass and what he’d been asked to do and achieved thus far at Atlanta. He’s no record breaker but he does sound like he’s a good student of the game. Just not sure. I mean, I guess no one does really. We all have to hope it works out. Kinda has an air of inevitability about it though. 

the boy from DST is clearly a special level of delusion.

It would be a bit like Frank Gilfeather reviewing Derek McInnes to Atlanta.

He’s not going to say he’s a poor fit etc.

I listened to it...just sounded like a litany of excuses for poor results.

Atlanta 2 is not about results it’s about producing players.

When he got his chance as Atlanta first team coach (and made a cunt of it) it wasn’t his team.

All the Glass appointment would show is we are Atlanta C and their pet guinea pig. Glass wouldn’t even be on those bookies lists bar the Atlanta links, & I say that bearing in mind some of the nonsensical names that are on that list. 

It would be a slap in the face to finally sack McInnes, then get trolled with Stephen Glass being manager/coach. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by RedStarTorphins

[manc_don]

24 minutes ago, RedStarTorphins said:

It would be a bit like Frank Gilfeather reviewing Derek McInnes to Atlanta.

He’s not going to say he’s a poor fit etc.

I listened to it...just sounded like a litany of excuses for poor results.

Atlanta 2 is not about results it’s about producing players.

When he got his chance as Atlanta first team coach (and made a cunt of it) it wasn’t his team.

All the Glass appointment would show is we are Atlanta C and their pet guinea pig. Glass wouldn’t even be on those bookies lists bar the Atlanta links, & I say that bearing in mind some of the nonsensical names that are on that list. 

It would be a slap in the face to finally sack McInnes, then get trolled with Stephen Glass being manager/coach. 

Not disagreeing with any of that, particularly the last two paragraphs.  That's what I was trying to insinuate with my last point. The air of inevitability about it. Feels like it's happening regardless of it being the right appointment.  I did feel he was genuine about some of what he said about him, but maybe that was my morning judgement.  

[RicoS321]

40 minutes ago, RedStarTorphins said:

All the Glass appointment would show is we are Atlanta C and their pet guinea pig. Glass wouldn’t even be on those bookies lists bar the Atlanta links, & I say that bearing in mind some of the nonsensical names that are on that list. 

I completely agree (although dof plus Glass would be acceptable). However if he were being touted without the Atlanta connection, folk would be describing it as an interesting, left-field suggestion worthy of merit. As always, fan reaction is rarely based on actual ability.

[ayrshire_don74]

37 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I completely agree (although dof plus Glass would be acceptable). However if he were being touted without the Atlanta connection, folk would be describing it as an interesting, left-field suggestion worthy of merit. As always, fan reaction is rarely based on actual ability.

why what does Glass bring to the table ? what ability does he have ? is he winner, does we have world class man management skills ?

[RicoS321]

4 hours ago, HaarDon said:

Think you're being a bit rough on him there.

He studies some of the best players all around Europe and makes reports on them then discusses their role with Martinez (manager of the best team on the planet for a tiny country with a similar population to ours)

Making a detailed analysis on how players play in the big leagues of Europe and coaching top players for the best team in the world alongside Thierry Henry (a legend in football) , exemplifies a pretty good pedigree.

I dont think Glass or Goodwin are anywhere near that quality of information or experience.

 

 

Good post. However, the quality of information is largely irrelevant, because the dons are unlikely to be signing that calibre of player. It's also the type of information gathering that you would want the club to be doing through a network of scouts, it's not really the skill of a manager, which may or may not be a skillset Maloney has. To be honest, that type of scouting analysis work I'd far rather was done by a fixed team reporting to the manager like Belgium have done. The last thing we need is a manager coming in signing their own players (within reason, of course), because that route will always be out of date after 12-18 months. We need a proper structured scouting process with specified targets of success with a goal of getting a 60% strike rate in the transfer market. We've been way below that for years and it shouldn't have been McInnes' job to fix that. The manager should have a veto on recruitment, instruction on the position required and the ability to suggest targets in our league for further scouting, but he shouldn't be providing the analysis. Greg fucking Tansey looked good against us sometimes, but our scouts should have been able to provide analysis that showed his workrate wasn't there and offered better. They should have been watching him in twenty games to McInnes' three. Signings should be done on consensus. I'd that's already happening then we need to do it far better.

[tup1]

11 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

Guess you would have found fergies appointment even more uninspiring having only been in charge of East Stirling and  St Mirren then.

 

I'm curious though, what sort of pedigree are you expecting?  There was a boy on the radio from dons supporters together wanting Eddie Howe.  Are you also that level of delusional as well or are you pragmatic enough to recognise he's highly unlikely to be interested in the Tim job let alone the Aberdeen one. 

Came across as a complete teuchter aye.

[RicoS321]

10 minutes ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

why what does Glass bring to the table ? what ability does he have ? is he winner, does we have world class man management skills ?

I've no idea, I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

[ayrshire_don74]

weird as you said he was acceptable

[RicoS321]

46 minutes ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

weird as you said he was acceptable

With a director of football I said. My assumption would be that the director of football saw enough in Glass to appoint him manager and would know better than me. If we appointed a manager first, then DOF, I'd be extremely concerned (unless it was just a timing thing).

[ayrshire_don74]

looking at social media... seems to be a drip drip of lets look at managers in USA... wonder if dark arts are at play here from club priming for an appointment or simply kite flying

[JIMMER]

Michael Carrick

[RedStarTorphins]

1 hour ago, JIMMER said:

Michael Carrick

Loved Boon