Next Manager

[Slim]

Davie Provan has a bit of a hit piece on Cormack in one of the tabloids today. In it he says it was widely known that McInnes was going at the end of the season and that McInnes himself was telling this to players he was trying to sign in January which scared off the top targets.

With the way the previous 10 matches have gone, McInnes not having much motivation knowing he’s out the door and the players appearing to be performing accordingly, I’d say there’s more chance of Sheerin/Robson getting a tune out of the players in the remaining 6 matches than McInnes would have.

No-one is going to turn things around when they’re working their notice period.

[HaarDon]

27 minutes ago, tom_widdows said:

Taken from https://www.essentiallysports.com/manager-vs-head-coach-real-boss/
'A manager is a part of a football team who has complete authority over the running and functioning of the team. He has the autonomy to choose his supporting staff, along with the provision to add players to the team if he deems it necessary. He is the one in-charge, and he makes sure the team gets the results. Sir Alex Ferguson is the best example of a manager you can find- he made sure he got the players he wanted for the team and had complete authority over his first team selection, along with a select few of his supporting staff who used to aid him during training.'

'A head coach, rather, is like a teen studying. All though he is completely responsible for what he does in school, his parents dictate what he  does outside of it. A head coach is only given the responsibility of ensuring his team putting a good performance in the match they are playing. That includes the likes of choosing a first team and training the players in specific sets of routines required for their position in the team. The management of the team is under the club board, and any player who joins or leaves the team does so on their calling, and not the coach. It’s like running on the beach with heavy ankle weights.'

So the answer is 'no one' is the 'manager' of Atlanta 2

Atlanta United has hired Gabriel Heinze to be its next head coach, the team said on Friday. Heinze and the club agreed to a two-year deal.

 

round and round we go.

[tom_widdows]

47 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

Lmao who is manager of Atlanta 2?

Surely you can Google that or call them direct and find out Glass is yeah?

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

Atlanta United has hired Gabriel Heinze to be its next head coach, the team said on Friday. Heinze and the club agreed to a two-year deal.

Head Coach is not the same as Manager

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

Most clubs allow the new manager to pick his own assistant. Aberdeen doing the same isn't a failure on their part.

It is a failure. Robson was being groomed for management, and we've failed to get him to the next rung. Ordinarily, I'd agree that a manager would pick their assistant, but this is a promotion within the company structure effectively. It's the equivalent of Martin Canning's promotion at Hamilton. He should be joining us as head coach under someone with experience and we should have the foundation already in place ready for him as this clearly isn't some overnight decision by Cormack. Glass, or someone like him, is pretty much the last piece of the jigsaw. It's an entirely different prospect from a current manager and should be treated as such. If we're just throwing Glass in without the surrounding support then it's a fucking horrendous decision. Brown is an irrelevance in that regard.

[redordead]

16 hours ago, Jute said:

Brown has well documented ankle issues. Also no chance his antics don’t suddenly start attracting red cards once he is not a Celtic player. 

To be fair. Fergie is pretty much a carbon copy of brown without the presence and he rarely gets sent off. My worry would be that they couldn't play together because you can't have two guys niggling and falling over to win fouls constantly. Someone needs to add the creativity and drive.

[redordead]

3 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Regardless of who the replacement is, really surprised at the action Cormack has taken.  There is a real lack of foresight.  If he knew he was going to be dispensing with McInnes why was the new manager not ready to go in the door before McInnes was out the end of Merkland Road?  Many in the press have uttered the point that McInnes should have been given until the end of the season because who is to say he would not have managed to overtake Hibs and grab third place.  Why then are we (seemingly) writing off this season by putting a novice team in charge until the end of the season when third place is deemed so important and we still have the Scottish Cup to compete in?  Leaving it until summer until a new man is in place is jeopardising not only a potentially good finish to this season but also handicapping us getting a flying start to next season.  The new manager will have to navigate a European tie before he even gets his feet under the desk.  So much has been said about the need to win trophies yet this year's cup is so unimportant that we will just chuck the reserve team coach in charge for it?  Bizarre.

The results since new year are to say that he wouldn't turn it around. He had nine chances to improve things and it didn't happen. Why would giving him more time be more positive than trying something new.

Trying something new being a concept that he seemed incapable of comprehending as he churned out snoozefest after snoozefest.

Edited March 14, 2021 by redordead

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

5 hours ago, Panda said:

It would have been worse surely had Cormack been speaking to potential managers while McInnes was still in place? 

There's every chance McInnes was told he could remain until the end of the season and declined. Cant imagine it'd be much fun going in front of the media to explain you've been sacked but are carrying on, likewise the players might lose respect for you. He also probably doesn't want another fourth place finish on his record.

If it is Glass, then Aberdeen have actually moved very quickly here. Compare that to Hearts and how long it took then to get Daniel Stendal, Rangers when McInnes turned them down and they went the rest of the season with Graeme Murty, and Celtic who sacked Lennon a week before McInnes yet appear no closer to appointing someone.

Not sure why it would have been worse to be sounding out a successor behind the scenes before McInnes was punted, that's what most forward thinking clubs would be doing.

I think you misunderstood the point about keeping him on til end of the season. I am not suggesting they gave him his notice then asked politely if he would like to stay on, just that they should have let him see out the season before giving him the sack, if that was their intention. No idea what Cormack thinks he will achieve by not having a proper manager in there for the next three months. 

[RicoS321]

41 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Not sure why it would have been worse to be sounding out a successor behind the scenes before McInnes was punted, that's what most forward thinking clubs would be doing.

I think you misunderstood the point about keeping him on til end of the season. I am not suggesting they gave him his notice then asked politely if he would like to stay on, just that they should have let him see out the season before giving him the sack, if that was their intention. No idea what Cormack thinks he will achieve by not having a proper manager in there for the next three months. 

There is a chance that not having McInnes would arrest the fairly steep decline, maybe even take a bit of pressure off the players. Some prospective candidates might not come out of the woodwork until a job is actually available too (real prospects like uber-dandy Pressley). I think you've got a point if it's Glass, as there's no reason that couldn't be "oven ready", but in reality it's only been a week and we're in the middle of a pandemic that will affect interviews etc - the sort of thing that couldn't take place when the manager was still in place. I think the six matches McInnes had prior to his first full season were very beneficial and I hope we could get a handful of matches under the belt of the new manager by summer. The Scottish cup is fine for a couple of rounds, if we can't beat the minnows even without a manager then we've got no chance.

[HaarDon]

8 hours ago, tom_widdows said:

 

Head Coach is not the same as Manager

Atlanta United has hired Gabriel Heinze to be its next head coach, the team said on Friday. Heinze and the club agreed to a two-year deal.

^^^

[HaarDon]

A head coach, senior coach, or manager is a professional at training and developing athletes. They typically hold a more public profile and are paid more than other coaches. In some sports, the head coach is instead called the "manager", as in association football and professional baseball. 

 

Ok I'm getting off this roundabout.

It's not going anywhere.

 

And imo Glass still doesnt have the attributes to be manager of AFC.

[tom_widdows]

3 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

Atlanta United has hired Gabriel Heinze to be its next head coach, the team said on Friday. Heinze and the club agreed to a two-year deal.

^^^

and again

head coach is not the same as a manager.

A manager has full reign over transfers, and coaching staff appointment.

A head coach does not. You are hired to work with who the board tells you and whilst you could determine a player is not good enough and should be let go, the board can disagree and even insist they play.

Heinze is head coach of Atlanta United First Team and will work with the first team squad in the MLS
Glass as it stands is head coach of Atlanta 2 and works with the second team/ development squad in the USL Championship. 
As there is no promotion/ relegation in the MLS and Atlanta 2 do not take part in the US Open cup they are two seperate departments in the same team. Both will answer to the Atlanta Board and I highly doubt one will have seniority over the other as it would upset the business model.

[tom_widdows]

18 minutes ago, HaarDon said:

A head coach, senior coach, or manager is a professional at training and developing athletes. They typically hold a more public profile and are paid more than other coaches. In some sports, the head coach is instead called the "manager", as in association football and professional baseball. 

 

Ok I'm getting off this roundabout.

It's not going anywhere.

 

And imo Glass still doesnt have the attributes to be manager of AFC.

He might but the question which I certainly want answered is, is would he be hired as 'manager' as in he has control over transfers and hiring coaches,team selection etc or;
would he be hired as 'head coach' to deal with the players already there and whoever the board decide to bring in? 

If it is the latter who on the board is in control over recruitment and what are their qualifications for this role?
Could it mean multiple Hernandez style signings, or even a situation as was rumoured to have happened at Hearts when Cathro was in charge ie Glass would have minimal or possibly no control on team selection?

Edited March 14, 2021 by tom_widdows

[Panda]

8 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

It is a failure. Robson was being groomed for management, and we've failed to get him to the next rung. 

Was he being groomed to be the next Aberdeen manager? I can't recall that ever being suggested. 

And if he was, and isn't currently ready to manage Aberdeen, why would that be the club's fault? Would it not be down to the guys he's been working under the last few years - ie McInnes & Docherty?

4 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Not sure why it would have been worse to be sounding out a successor behind the scenes before McInnes was punted, that's what most forward thinking clubs would be doing.

I

Do they? It's going behind your manager's back and doing the dirty on them.

[sheepheid]

There’s about 5 pages here talking about Glass and Brown and whether they are right or good enough or have been asked or are even interested...

this is the Cormack’s first test. He must stop being an Aberdeen fan. Get the best man in for the club. Forget about a big name, unless that big name ticks all the boxes. He must identify someone that will take AFC forward, go in there and get him. Young, hun, old, Tim, or something out of left field. 

not quite the same but he must stop being Mike Ashley, with Smith written on his shirt, not appease the fans, keep his successful business managerial head on and do what is right for the club. 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

Was he being groomed to be the next Aberdeen manager? I can't recall that ever being suggested. 

And if he was, and isn't currently ready to manage Aberdeen, why would that be the club's fault? Would it not be down to the guys he's been working under the last few years - ie McInnes & Docherty?

He was being groomed for management, not necessarily at Aberdeen. In other words, he was being progressed. He shouldn't have been working under McInnes and Docherty, that's the point, AFC should have been developing him and Cormack should have been making that distinction on day one when he mentioned succession planning as important. Or we rip it up and start again after every manager, with zero continuity.

[HaarDon]

Quite enjoyed listening to Robbie Fowler talk about us in high regard (though he's touting himself of course) someone posted on footymad.

Is he going for an interview ?

[Jute]

3 hours ago, HaarDon said:

Quite enjoyed listening to Robbie Fowler talk about us in high regard (though he's touting himself of course) someone posted on footymad.

Is he going for an interview ?

Hope not as his record in India is awful (3 wins in 20) and from memory (Those in Australia and New Zealand feel free to correct) his time at Brisbane was similarly unspectacular. 

[RedStarTorphins]

1 hour ago, Jute said:

Hope not as his record in India is awful (3 wins in 20) and from memory (Those in Australia and New Zealand feel free to correct) his time at Brisbane was similarly unspectacular. 

A bit like Glass and his record in Atlanta then. 

[Jute]

14 minutes ago, RedStarTorphins said:

A bit like Glass and his record in Atlanta then. 

Very much so. Not keen on him either. 

[RedStarTorphins]

53 minutes ago, Jute said:

Very much so. Not keen on him either. 

Not many are, apart from Cormack allegedly.

Get his yes man in place so he can keep control. 

[Panda]

Just now, RedStarTorphins said:

Not many are, apart from Cormack allegedly.

Get his yes man in place so he can keep control. 

I'm in favour of Glass. But then I'm also Dave Cormack.

 

Ach I'm willing to give him a try, especially if it brings in the England striker coach, Scott Brown & Leigh Griffiths. The other realistic options on the table don't fill me with much optimism - Stephen Robinson's name has been mentioned an uncomfortable number of times. Everyone forgetting Motherwell were shite when he left them, played 5-5-0 at Ibrox which is unforgivable, got thumped 7-1 at Ibrox too. 

Not actually seen any consensus on who fans have as a favourite though.

[RedStarTorphins]

54 minutes ago, Panda said:

I'm in favour of Glass. But then I'm also Dave Cormack.

 

Ach I'm willing to give him a try, especially if it brings in the England striker coach, Scott Brown & Leigh Griffiths. The other realistic options on the table don't fill me with much optimism - Stephen Robinson's name has been mentioned an uncomfortable number of times. Everyone forgetting Motherwell were shite when he left them, played 5-5-0 at Ibrox which is unforgivable, got thumped 7-1 at Ibrox too. 

Not actually seen any consensus on who fans have as a favourite though.

Aye I’d rather “try” something different like Glass as opposed to Robinson.

We’d as well have kept McInnes if we appointed Robinson.

Shaun Maloney might be an interesting option too.

I think we’ll end up with Glass. Not Briwn though think he’ll get some sort of coaching job at Celtic maybe.

And where’s the Leigh Griffiths stuff coming from. Do we have any XXXXL shirts available? 

[Panda]

Just now, RedStarTorphins said:

 

I think we’ll end up with Glass. Not Briwn though think he’ll get some sort of coaching job at Celtic maybe.

Aye he might be using us for a bit of leverage.

Just now, RedStarTorphins said:

And where’s the Leigh Griffiths stuff coming from. Do we have any XXXXL shirts available? 

Out of contract in summer, out of favour at Celtic (although they are about to change manager), needs to be playing to be in Scotland team. Talk was Brown could persuade him to join him at Aberdeen.

[RedStarTorphins]

11 minutes ago, Panda said:

Aye he might be using us for a bit of leverage.

Out of contract in summer, out of favour at Celtic (although they are about to change manager), needs to be playing to be in Scotland team. Talk was Brown could persuade him to join him at Aberdeen.

Griffiths to Hibs when Nisbet is sold in the summer. 

[RicoS321]

Good update from Cormack on the AFC YouTube channel. Returning some sanity to proceedings. Get the utd game out of the way and we've then got a few weeks to turn things around. No timeline from him, but it doesn't sound like they'll either rush it or hang around. A lot will depend on the preferred candidate.