Europa Conference 21/22

[tlg1903]

7 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I hate that phrase, it is just an excuse for being shite really. Glass got this job in March so has had four months to get his recruitment sorted, which is ample. 

The problem with calling it a transition season is what do you judge as acceptable? Do you fire Glass if we finish sixth?

 

You say that like 4 months is a huge amount of time, it really isn't.  It isn't all about recruitment either as it takes time for an implement his own style of play etc.  This time next season we will have a far better idea of what a glass side looks like.  

 

[Panda]

9 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I hate that phrase, it is just an excuse for being shite really. Glass got this job in March so has had four months to get his recruitment sorted, which is ample. 

The problem with calling it a transition season is what do you judge as acceptable? Do you fire Glass if we finish sixth?

 

It really isn't. 

We were really poor last season, Glass would need to be a genius to come in and sort us out in one summer. It took Fergie four years at Man U and Gerrard three years at Rangers, just to give some examples. You either need loads of money, or time.

I think Aberdeen will be similar to how Hibs were last season - will be be really good and entertaining to watch on their day, but will turn in more than a few shockers throughout the campaign and struggle with consistency. I'm prepared for that, I just want evidence we're getting better, and Europe and a trophy would be good too.

[RicoS321]

I think the term transition probably isn't appropriate to a team who hasn't finished outside top 4 for 8 seasons though. I don't like it as a term either, it just shouldn't be used in modern fitba, although I can completely see how it is possibly applicable - or how Glass could be excused - in our case. We should never be having a transition period of note as improvement should be constant and transcend the manager (as I assumed Cormack knew as he mentioned succession planning on day one). Other than two or three guys that work closely with the manager, there should be very little upheaval. The director of football and recruitment positions should have been sorted while McInnes was still here and they should have been involved in sourcing the new manager. We've done exactly the opposite and to me the term transition just gives a free pass to that failure. I think we should expect better as fans and not accept transition as a thing. The Tims won't be accepting transition as an excuse. Glass has been let down by the process in my opinion, and I think we need to be clear where that fault lies rather than just writing off as something that happens every time you change a manager. 

[SeeBass]

Anybody unhappy about away goals rule being scrapped this season??

[RicoS321]

11 hours ago, SeeBass said:

Anybody unhappy about away goals rule being scrapped this season??

Yes, me. But I think I'm probably wrong, it's probably not a bad thing, or a good thing. 

[RedStarTorphins]

12 hours ago, SeeBass said:

Anybody unhappy about away goals rule being scrapped this season??

All I think it’ll do is make home teams more attacking as there’s not the threat of the away goal.

But away teams will be more defensive-minded with no “extra” benefit of scoring away from home. 

[Jute]

Confirmed that 5665 will be allowed to attend next week.

 

[tlg1903]

11 hours ago, SeeBass said:

Anybody unhappy about away goals rule being scrapped this season??

Nope, delighted to see the back of it.  More often than not it completely ruined games.  

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

On 15/07/2021 at 21:10, Panda said:

We were really poor last season, Glass would need to be a genius to come in and sort us out in one summer. It took Fergie four years at Man U and Gerrard three years at Rangers, just to give some examples.

Remember Glass did not take over a team fighting at the bottom of the league. You make it sound like he inherited a total shambles when in actual fact we finished fourth and not that far off third. We were also 11 points clear of fifth place.

On the basis of your Fergie example, you can’t honestly suggest you would be happy with four seasons of rebuilding just so we can then start qualifying for Europe again in season five because in reality if we finish sixth this year and have a poor start to the following one you would be calling for a new manager.

[Panda]

On 17/07/2021 at 10:59, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Remember Glass did not take over a team fighting at the bottom of the league. You make it sound like he inherited a total shambles when in actual fact we finished fourth and not that far off third. We were also 11 points clear of fifth place.

The league placing is irrelevant, that's just polishing a turd. We were awful last season, we've been poor for three seasons, it's why fans wanted McInnes gone.

Aberdeen's performances were bottom six standard. That the other clubs didn't take advantage is their own issue. 

"You make it sound like he inherited a total shambles." He did. He took over a team that couldn't score, couldn't create, couldn't defend, were being laughed at by fans of other clubs for the boring displays they put in, had no real desire or fight in the team, had games cancelled because players couldn't give a toss about breaking rules their manager put in place, and had a big rebuilding job this summer due to so many being out of contract.

We were a shambles. And I think people are underestimating the job that Glass has already done before a ball is kicked. He's changed the whole coaching structure, signed six players, and already is dealing with both injuries (McCrorie at centre half surely isn't his first choice), disruption to pre-season with games cancelled, and one of his players handing in a transfer request. 

 

On 17/07/2021 at 10:59, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

On the basis of your Fergie example, you can’t honestly suggest you would be happy with four seasons of rebuilding just so we can then start qualifying for Europe again in season five because in reality if we finish sixth this year and have a poor start to the following one you would be calling for a new manager.

Aberdeen could finish in a European spot next season and still be a team in transition. 

We're not going to finish sixth, simply because the rest of the league isn't good enough. A poor Celtic still comfortably finished second. 

I'm judging us, and the performance of Glass, by our own performances, not about how many more points than St Mirren we pick up.

[Elgindon]

Good post min,agreed. ^^^

Caught the second half of the BK Hacken game today. They look beatable,but could give us problems given where were at in readiness

[Jute]

I would say they are favourites to win the tie from what I have seen of their games. 1-0 win over Norrkoping today. They look a decent side and will be match sharp compared to us.  

[RedStarTorphins]

1 hour ago, Jute said:

I would say they are favourites to win the tie from what I have seen of their games. 1-0 win over Norrkoping today. They look a decent side and will be match sharp compared to us.  

Aye.

Dons 0-1 Hacken 

Hacken 2-1 Dons 

And slightly off topic, what’s the plan if McCrorie or Considine get injured? 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

The league placing is irrelevant, that's just polishing a turd. We were awful last season, we've been poor for three seasons, it's why fans wanted McInnes gone.

Aberdeen's performances were bottom six standard. That the other clubs didn't take advantage is their own issue. 

"You make it sound like he inherited a total shambles." He did. He took over a team that couldn't score, couldn't create, couldn't defend, were being laughed at by fans of other clubs for the boring displays they put in, had no real desire or fight in the team, had games cancelled because players couldn't give a toss about breaking rules their manager put in place, and had a big rebuilding job this summer due to so many being out of contract.

We were a shambles. And I think people are underestimating the job that Glass has already done before a ball is kicked. He's changed the whole coaching structure, signed six players, and already is dealing with both injuries (McCrorie at centre half surely isn't his first choice), disruption to pre-season with games cancelled, and one of his players handing in a transfer request. 

 

Aberdeen could finish in a European spot next season and still be a team in transition. 

We're not going to finish sixth, simply because the rest of the league isn't good enough. A poor Celtic still comfortably finished second. 

I'm judging us, and the performance of Glass, by our own performances, not about how many more points than St Mirren we pick up.

I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of this, but I do have issues with it. You're giving Glass credit for changing the whole coaching structure, I find that really disconcerting if true. That is not Glass' job. This is what I mean about disliking the term transition. None of the changes in coaching structure required a change in manager and should have happened in order to make McInnes' job easier. If Glass - rather than our football operations team - has handled this then it's a real worry, however it also means that he's the beneficiary of an improved setup. In terms of playing staff, he's inherited a good standard of ~9 players and had no different a job than McInnes was about to face. Unfortunately he hasn't been helped by our lack of recruitment team which has been telling in the signings. 

What are you referring to in regard to games cancelled/ players not being bothered? We barely had a single incident in the entire time McInnes was at the club, I think it's a bit pathetic to question his ability to develop a mature side with almost zero off field issues. It was bordering on boring at times.

[Jute]

If we get passed Hacken list of potential opponents for next round.

[RicoS321]

Christ, how many round have we got? That list is made up of teams that would be painted on McInnes' glass ceiling. Will be interesting to see if Glass' glass ceiling is similar.

 

Edit: I've booked flights to all 7 countries just to make sure I don't miss out.

 

Also, Plzen and PAOK are seeded in the next next round and draw is at 1pm

Edited July 19, 2021 by RicoS321

[Panda]

16 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of this, but I do have issues with it. You're giving Glass credit for changing the whole coaching structure, I find that really disconcerting if true. That is not Glass' job.

Well they are all his own guys. Allan Russell, Henry Apaloo and Scott Brown. 

16 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

What are you referring to in regard to games cancelled/ players not being bothered? 

Cancelled was the wrong word, we had two/three games postponed at the start of the season.

There may have been few "incidents", but the players not being overly bothered was evident throughout the season. I still remember them being 2-0 down at Ibrox after being crap, expecting McInnes to hammer them at half-time, and before the second half started the camera panning over Considine, Ojo and I can't remember who else and the three of them were having a laugh and a giggle. You don't act that way if the manager has gone through you, or if he did they clearly didn't give a shit about what he said. We were 2-0 down against supposedly our biggest rivals, at a venue where we had been given a hiding when in a similar position the season before - and unsurprisingly we went on to get another one.

There was also the defeat to St Mirren, where McInnes was picked up by those in the stand screaming at the players "it's a cup game, it's a fucking cup game" because they were playing it like it was a kickabout with their mates.

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

12 minutes ago, Panda said:

Well they are all his own guys. Allan Russell, Henry Apaloo and Scott Brown. 

Cancelled was the wrong word, we had two/three games postponed at the start of the season.

There may have been few "incidents", but the players not being overly bothered was evident throughout the season. I still remember them being 2-0 down at Ibrox after being crap, expecting McInnes to hammer them at half-time, and before the second half started the camera panning over Considine, Ojo and I can't remember who else and the three of them were having a laugh and a giggle. You don't act that way if the manager has gone through you, or if he did they clearly didn't give a shit about what he said. We were 2-0 down against supposedly our biggest rivals, at a venue where we had been given a hiding when in a similar position the season before - and unsurprisingly we went on to get another one.

There was also the defeat to St Mirren, where McInnes was picked up by those in the stand screaming at the players "it's a cup game, it's a fucking cup game" because they were playing it like it was a kickabout with their mates.

Sorry, you stated that they "had games cancelled because players couldn't give a toss about breaking rules their manager put in place", which I think is incredibly unfair - and inaccurate. There's a vast difference between a team lacking in confidence and struggling for motivation and a bunch of guys that are taking the piss and making a fool of their manager. The former is an example of what was happening last season (hence the shout in the St Mirren game I expect), the latter was the regular dicking about that we saw under Calderwood of which there is zero indication occurred under McInnes. Glass has been left with very few players who wouldn't give their all when confident and motivated as was evidenced when most dons fans were describing some of the best football they'd seen with Watkins, Wright and Hedges running things. Unfortunately McInnes ran out of ideas on how to make that happen after all three of those players got injured or were removed from history, and wasn't given the backing in January to have another crack at it (rightly, I think). Guys like Considine, Hayes, McGinn, Lewis etc. don't deserve to have their professionalism questioned, all players and teams go through bad spells.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

19 hours ago, Panda said:

We're not going to finish sixth, simply because the rest of the league isn't good enough. A poor Celtic still comfortably finished second. 

I'm judging us, and the performance of Glass, by our own performances, not about how many more points than St Mirren we pick up.

A poor Celtic is irrelevant to us, they are in a completely different galaxy in terms of spending.  They have just spent more than £8M in the last week.

I think you totally underestimate how close the gap is between the bottom 10 teams in our league and I think Dave Cormack does too.  Hibs are decent, Hearts will be no push overs and St Johnstone won two cups last year. 

[Panda]

22 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

Sorry, you stated that they "had games cancelled because players couldn't give a toss about breaking rules their manager put in place", which I think is incredibly unfair - and inaccurate.

Apart from saying cancelled instead of postponed, which part was inaccurate or unfair?

 

22 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

Glass has been left with very few players who wouldn't give their all when confident and motivated as was evidenced when most dons fans were describing some of the best football they'd seen with Watkins, Wright and Hedges running things. 

It's easy to look good and motivated and want the ball when you're 5-0 up against Runavik. The players get found out when it's time to roll up the sleeves.

Hedges I think is actually one of those players who attitude was fine. There were plenty others who were happy to hide behind excuses.

[Panda]

2 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I think you totally underestimate how close the gap is between the bottom 10 teams in our league and I think Dave Cormack does too.  

There should be a bigger gap though and we shouldn't be struggling as much as we have, that's the point. We've just taken Motherwell's captain off them and one of Livingston's best players. Apart from Hibs, I don't think any in the division would have been able to entice Scott Brown from Celtic.

Only being slightly better than them isn't really something to boast about. 

[RicoS321]

6 minutes ago, Panda said:

Apart from saying cancelled instead of postponed, which part was inaccurate or unfair?

The massively loaded part of the statement that said that they couldn't give a toss about breaking the rules their manager put in place. It's unevidenced nonsense.

 

7 minutes ago, Panda said:

It's easy to look good and motivated and want the ball when you're 5-0 up against Runavik. The players get found out when it's time to roll up the sleeves.

Hedges I think is actually one of those players who attitude was fine. There were plenty others who were happy to hide behind excuses.

I think you're ignoring the numerous games (although significantly in the minority) where we played fairly well last season, including the game where we tanked hibs and the point at which we were comfortable in third and many people were raving about our style of play. Guys like Considine, Hayes, McGinn, Lewis (I'd argue Taylor too) have proven over numerous seasons that they can work hard and roll their sleeves up (I'm not talking about ability, but workrate and attitude) and McInnes' teams ground out results when playing terribly a huge number of times. Poor signings the deeper you go down the squad and the injuries that resulted in having to play these guys was clearly a big issue. Altogether, I still don't see Glass' job as significantly different to that which we'd task any manager in the close season (including McInnes every year). Not having made signings in January is probably the biggest problem Glass will face, alongside not having the recruitment specialist in place, which leaves us a window behind where we would expect to be. That should definitely buy him a season of leeway, hopefully two.

 

[RicoS321]

Too soon to start the Vienna thread?

[Panda]

17 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

The massively loaded part of the statement that said that they couldn't give a toss about breaking the rules their manager put in place. It's unevidenced nonsense.

It's evidenced by the fact they willingly broke them. It wasn't an accident. 

17 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I think you're ignoring the numerous games (although significantly in the minority) where we played fairly well last season, including the game where we tanked hibs and the point at which we were comfortable in third and many people were raving about our style of play.

Numerous is stretching things, a mere handful more like. And beyond October, it's been nine wins in seven months. 

 

 

[sancho_panza]

19 hours ago, Panda said:

He took over a team that couldn't score, couldn't create, couldn't defend... 

I don't buy the idea this was some kind of shambolic mess of a squad and that Glass by implication should be shielded from criticism if we start the season poorly.

We were more stodgy and predictable last season than shambolic. We couldn't score or create anything, but we weren't losing loads of goals either. It was right around the same number of goals we lost when we were finishing second if you look at the season overall.

Most managers take over in less than perfect circumstances as they're usually replacing someone that got sacked. This situation is actually about the best you could reasonably hope for as a new manager - a team with a solid defensive foundation that had gone stale, a reasonable budget to bring in new players (Brown and Gallagher must be on decent wages), strong backing from the chairman, etc. Glass has also been given the luxury of a good four months or so to prepare in the job, which most managers don't get (though Mcinnes got something similar).