Andy Murray

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

The courts at Westburn Park don't get used. The facilities and the funding are in place. We don't encourage enough of our kids to engage. We're a fucking useless race of loser fat bastards. C'est tout.

 

Yes. I blame the parents.

 

 

[rocket_scientist]

Because he's from Scotland.  That's the only reason I want him to win.  I'm a fan of sports, and tennis in particular, so it's nice to have a world class sportsman to cheer on, that's capable of winning tournaments and mixing it with the best in world.  I'm enjoying it while I can, as once Murray retires I'll have to start getting my kicks from the likes of snooker and darts!

 

I couldn't really give a rats ass how defective his personality is.  My support of his career is purely on a selfish basis.

Decades ago, I might have understood and even agreed with you. As I grew up and wised up, I want the good guys to do well and the arseholes to fail irrespective of their nationalities.

 

Jingoism is unhealthy and particularly misguided is the Scottish version. As if Scoatlan was one. The biggest city is divided. The capital is full of fakes. Considering Fife's uncouthness, Caithness's insularity, the primitive Western Isles, Perth's snootery, the ugliness of Angus folk, Dundee's roch-ness and the parochiality of the North East, I'm struggling to see anything at all to unite us. Those Ayrshire backwaters are places and races I particularly don't want to have any part of. 

[Tyrant]

Anyone who wants to play tennis or badminton or squash or who wants to excel at swimming or football can do so in this country. It's the will and desire that is missing for the vast majority. I don't buy this national infrastructure deficiency as an excuse for Murray's failure at the top level.

 

On the contrary, his will to be a tennis player wasn't his own. His mother, sex-starved freak that she is, is the ONLY reason Murray plays. It was HER obsession that drove her sons toward the game. She drove them to it including relocating them to Spain for most of their teenage years.

 

The courts at Westburn Park don't get used. The facilities and the funding are in place. We don't encourage enough of our kids to engage. We're a fucking useless race of loser fat bastards. C'est tout.

 

 

The courts cost £24 per hour. That's more than most can afford and/or are willing to pay to play tennis. This is a big part of the problem. I'm not blaming the national infrastructure deficiency for Murray's failure to win a grand slam but rather commending him for being as successfull as he has been despite it.

[rocket_scientist]

 

The courts cost £24 per hour. That's more than most can afford and/or are willing to pay to play tennis. This is a big part of the problem. I'm not blaming the national infrastructure deficiency for Murray's failure to win a grand slam but rather commending him for being as successfull as he has been despite it.

Yeah, that's bullshit and no surprise given that it's the cooncil running it. But surely they would react if there was a demand from kids and their parents and/or coaches screaming to play the game?

 

Nothing preventing an enthusiast creating the demand however. The book I read a few months ago called Bounce by Matthew Syed had a particularly interesting stat. More than half of the UK's top 20 or top dozen or whatever table tennis players in the whole of the UK lived in the same street in Reading, Berkshire. The reason was very simple. A table tennis enthusiast (a schoolteacher, I think) found a disused shed, tarted it up, put a table tennis table in there and gave keys to interested kids. They used it, used it alot, got good at it, got very good at it and went on to win medals in Commonwealth and Olympic games and stuff.

 

The book was fascinating on many levels but the key message was that excelling in anything will usually be commensurate with effort rather than talent. A book along these lines I've yet to read is the Talent Myth - which I've just googled and found an article by Malcolm Gladwell called this (who may have been the author of the book recommended to me by a mate in Dublin). I'd never heard of the boy until last month when I read a book by him which was excellent.

 

On topic, Murray had advantages that the vast majority didn't. Whilst his mother's obsession was the driver, they had the means to get them out to Spain for warm weather training and coaching for most of the formative and development years.

 

 

[Sonoftherock]

The table tennis analogy is interesting, but how many of these guys from Berkshire were able to compete on the world stage?  If you remove the Chinese from the equation, there are also far more people playing tennis competitively in comparison with ping-pong!

 

Tennis is a sport played across the world and to become one of the top players in world requires more than just effort alone - although effort and complete dedication is also essential.

 

I was reading an article the other day, about the junior US Open... Of the four quarter finalists this year, 3 of them were British.  This was held up a reason to be hopefull about the future, however, statistically speaking, we'd be lucky if only one of these guys ever makes the senior top 50!

 

In an individual sport, that's as widely played as Tennis, to reach the level that Andy Murray has, consistently within the top 4 for the past few years, requires an incredible talent.  You might not like Andy, or his family, but to deny that he is an incredibly gifted sportsman would be doing him a disservice.  I saw him play live for this first time in Melbourne this year and, as a tennis fan, I feel I can appreciate a class act when I see one.  I saw the final set of his win over Nadal in Tokoyo at the weekend and I would urge anyone who doubts this to watch that as an example.  It was flawless tennis - Nadal will be remembered as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a tennis racquet and Murray just took him apart 6-0.

 

Undoubtably though he was lucky, that this god-given talent was married by the sacrifices made by his mother.

[rocket_scientist]

The table tennis analogy is interesting, but how many of these guys from Berkshire were able to compete on the world stage?  If you remove the Chinese from the equation, there are also far more people playing tennis competitively in comparison with ping-pong!

 

Tennis is a sport played across the world and to become one of the top players in world requires more than just effort alone - although effort and complete dedication is also essential.

 

I was reading an article the other day, about the junior US Open... Of the four quarter finalists this year, 3 of them were British.  This was held up a reason to be hopefull about the future, however, statistically speaking, we'd be lucky if only one of these guys ever makes the senior top 50!

 

In an individual sport, that's as widely played as Tennis, to reach the level that Andy Murray has, consistently within the top 4 for the past few years, requires an incredible talent.  You might not like Andy, or his family, but to deny that he is an incredibly gifted sportsman would be doing him a disservice.  I saw him play live for this first time in Melbourne this year and, as a tennis fan, I feel I can appreciate a class act when I see one.  I saw the final set of his win over Nadal in Tokoyo at the weekend and I would urge anyone who doubts this to watch that as an example.  It was flawless tennis - Nadal will be remembered as one of the greatest players ever to pick up a tennis racquet and Murray just took him apart 6-0.

 

Undoubtably though he was lucky, that this god-given talent was married by the sacrifices made by his mother.

Widely played? Do you have the participation levels for sport globally? I couldn't find it via google. Tennis isn't played by many in this country, I know that much.

 

Who denied that he may or may not be "incredibly gifted"? Who's even discussing him in this regard? Have you read Bounce, or the Talent Myth?

 

The point that at least one of these texts discusses is the value of endeavour. Are you disputing this? How does your argument stack up in relation to Paul Lawrie for example, if indeed your argument is that Murray's (or indeed any top sports performer's) achievement is more talent-based than work? Golf is played by over 60 million people worldwide last I looked and is forecast to hit 70m shortly with the exponential growth in Asia.

 

God-given talents may be more of a myth than you perceive in relation to the majority. For every Seve or McEnroe (and I know Seve ground out thousands of hours in his formative years), there are many more who get to these optimum levels through dedicated, focused effort without any apparent latent "god-given" talent. How else can you explain the three female chess grandmasters who were made, not born?

 

 

There are tons of great stuff on this subject. Here's one on football from Australian Four Four Two.

 

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/Features/6785,the-talent-myth.aspx

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Murray had advantages that the vast majority didn't. Whilst his mother's obsession was the driver, they had the means to get them out to Spain for warm weather training and coaching for most of the formative and development years.

 

This is pretty much bang on.

 

That said, the racket sports set up in Scotland it still very elitist and viewed generally as such and "poofy" by a lot of the very same wee fannies the sports have to try and attract. 

 

I like to think that hard work AND talent are necessary to get to the top of most, if not all, sports. I've known guys who try so hard and have parents very driven also, but ultimately they are just not "talented" however much they try and chuck time, money and effort at their chosen sport. It's sometimes quite funny watching the story pan out but I'm something of a cruel cunt.

[rocket_scientist]

Those who try so hard without fruit are often the ones that were patently never going to make it anyhow.

 

These people are what I call "losers", people that were never going to make it anyway mostly due to character deficiencies.

 

It's all about the mind and all about character.

 

"Just because you are a character doesn't mean that you have character", a wise wolf once said.

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Those who try so hard without fruit are often the ones that were patently never going to make it anyhow.

 

These people are what I call "losers", people that were never going to make it anyway mostly due to character deficiencies.

 

It's all about the mind and all about character.

 

"Just because you are a character doesn't mean that you have character", a wise wolf once said.

 

Not that I think "character" or "mind" isn't important but I do think that flawed or "deficient" characters are just the kind of folk, given the sacrifices necessary, that would have the single minded focus to the detriment of "having a life" that would get to the top in a sport.

 

Most folk have deficient characters in some form or other.

[rocket_scientist]

Not that I think "character" or "mind" isn't important but I do think that flawed or "deficient" characters are just the kind of folk, given the sacrifices necessary, that would have the single minded focus to the detriment of "having a life" that would get to the top in a sport.

 

Most folk have deficient characters in some form or other.

Intelligent retort and a flawless observation, thereby exposing the inadequacy and lack of clarity in my words.

 

However, character of sorts and mind for sure are essential for success.

 

We are all mentally ill, it's just a matter of degree. Dr M Scott Peck - The Road Less Travelled.

 

Definition becomes important now. Allow me to further define where I made an arse of it before.

 

Winners have certain qualities in common. So common in fact, that you do not win without them.

 

There is no doubt that many winners are socially inept and struggle to function in everyday society.

 

This is the price they pay, often.

 

But the character deficiencies I was talking about include self-doubt, lack of iron will, being short of extraordinary self-discipline or an absence of conviction - blind, headstrong or otherwise.

 

Most winners are very fucked up people. In golf, Nicklaus, Faldo and Woods are prime examples.

 

 

[tlg1903]

His mum has always reminded me of zelda from terrahawks

 

 

[Sonoftherock]

Widely played? Do you have the participation levels for sport globally? I couldn't find it via google. Tennis isn't played by many in this country, I know that much.

 

Who denied that he may or may not be "incredibly gifted"? Who's even discussing him in this regard? Have you read Bounce, or the Talent Myth?

 

The point that at least one of these texts discusses is the value of endeavour. Are you disputing this? How does your argument stack up in relation to Paul Lawrie for example, if indeed your argument is that Murray's (or indeed any top sports performer's) achievement is more talent-based than work? Golf is played by over 60 million people worldwide last I looked and is forecast to hit 70m shortly with the exponential growth in Asia.

 

God-given talents may be more of a myth than you perceive in relation to the majority. For every Seve or McEnroe (and I know Seve ground out thousands of hours in his formative years), there are many more who get to these optimum levels through dedicated, focused effort without any apparent latent "god-given" talent. How else can you explain the three female chess grandmasters who were made, not born?

 

 

There are tons of great stuff on this subject. Here's one on football from Australian Four Four Two.

 

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/Features/6785,the-talent-myth.aspx

 

I don’t have the participation level statistics, however, a quick look at the make-up of the top 100, reveal that it’s a global game.

 

It’s an interesting article and I appreciate the argument but it’s one that I reject.  I believe that in Sports like Tennis and Soccer you can just train or “make” a champion.  It’s a mixture of mentality, genetics, hard-work and talent (and perhaps in some instances, as discussed earlier in this thread opportunity).

 

When I was a kid I lived for playing sports – It was all I wanted to do in my spare time, when I wasn’t at school.  I used play soccer, tennis, golf and I was a pretty useful distance runner.  A number of experiences or encounters during my youth helped me to appreciate that there is such thing as inherent, or “god-given,” talent.  Playing football for example, you encounter some lads who are naturally gifted – you could fire a football at them from any angle, under pressure and they’d trap it in an instant.  For other lads, no matter how much they train or practise, they’ll never have the same ability to do that consistently. 

 

This is obviously a very simplistic, fundamental example, however, as move through the sporting grades, and whittle things down, continuing to separate the wheat from the chaff, these differences  become more subtle, however conversely, gifted natural talent becomes more obvious.  As I said, growing up I played sports at a reasonable level all the time, but it was few change encounters with truly talented individuals which helped me understand – the way they moved, thought and things they could do – no amount of coaching or practise would get me to that level. 

Now, I certainly wouldn’t label myself a “loser,” I played sports and practised all the time because I loved them – however, that’s not to say if I’d had the talent, I’d have loved to of made it in sports.

However, as I mentioned above I’m not disputing the importance of endeavour, I just think that an inherent “gift” or “talent” is as important.

 

I can’t really comment on the Paul Lawrie example, as I know very little about golf, however, I do know that he reached the pinnacle of sport by winning a major and that prior to this and subsequently, he had consistently failed to reach level.  As I said, I know nothing about him, whether he had injuries, whether he lacks dedication, or whether he just got extremely lucky on one particular weekend.  One thing I do know, is that you need a certain degree of talent to win a major in golf – not just anyone could win one of these, through purely hardwork and dedication.

 

Also, John McEnroe often talks about how much he had to give up and how hard he had to train to make it to the very top.  Again, no idea about Seve, but I’d be surprised to hear if he didn’t work at his game all the time – from what little I know about him, he sounded extremely passionate and dedicated. 

 

[Kowalski]

Three tournament wins in three weeks.

He's now 3rd in the world.

 

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

Three tournament wins in three weeks.

He's now 3rd in the world.

 

 

Good stuff, just needs to take that form into a slam final.

[maverick sheep]

This is pretty much bang on.

 

That said, the racket sports set up in Scotland it still very elitist and viewed generally as such and "poofy" by a lot of the very same wee fannies the sports have to try and attract. 

 

I like to think that hard work AND talent are necessary to get to the top of most, if not all, sports. I've known guys who try so hard and have parents very driven also, but ultimately they are just not "talented" however much they try and chuck time, money and effort at their chosen sport. It's sometimes quite funny watching the story pan out but I'm something of a cruel cunt.

 

not just racket sport, anything other than football. look at the egg chasers for eg. we're a small country, but the pool of players for almost all our sports is ludicrously tiny. It is crazy but even now, if you're a kid playing rugby, your only hope s to go to a private school or else be scouted by the same people that scout private schools.

 

there is no investent in yoofs in terms of sport, education or fuck all else. the country's gubbed. that there's a world-class tennis player from here is frankly bizarre!

[Madbadteacher]

We are still world class at shinty, and it is a sport that's growing at school/junior level

[Tyrant]

We are still world class at shinty, and it is a sport that's growing at school/junior level

 

Assume that's an attempt at humour?

[TENEMENTFUNSTER]

We are still world class at shinty, and it is a sport that's growing at school/junior level

 

Much like England are world class at cricket/rugby league. Largely sports no other cunt plays, aside from a couple of notable ex-empire exceptions. Fairly small world to be "world class" in.

[Madbadteacher]

Assume that's an attempt at humour?

 

Actually, no.

 

Gets them off their fat arses and out in the fresh air, running about and being fitter than playing, say, FIFA12!

[Tyrant]

Fit about FIFA 11?

[Tyrant]

Just battered Andy Roddick 6-2 6-2. I ken Roddick's not what he was since his injury but it was still a very impressive performance from Murray.

[Kowalski]

18 games unbeaten now. 

[Tyrant]

Beaten by Berdych the other day. 

 

Murray will meet him again in the ATP Tour Finals in London. David Ferrer and Novak Djokovic are also in his group.

 

Anyone know what TV channel this will be on?

[manc_don]

Beaten by Berdych the other day. 

 

Murray will meet him again in the ATP Tour Finals in London. David Ferrer and Novak Djokovic are also in his group.

 

Anyone know what TV channel this will be on?

 

 

I'm sure I saw it advertised on Sky Sports last week.

[Kowalski]

FFS fucks sake!