Broken Glass

[LA-Don]

5 hours ago, sancho_panza said:

If this were true then their national team would be a lot better than it is. They finished fifth in their qualifying group last time behind the likes of Panama (who England put six past at the tournament) and Honduras (lost a playoff to Australia), despite having the largest potential player pool in world football (according to the FIFA survey on participation rates).

I'm not knocking the US, I'm actually a big fan of American sports, but I've seen several people on here now claim that the country is some hotbed of advanced coaching methods and I can't see any evidence for that beyond the single example of Jesse Marsh doing well at Salzburg. Anecdotally, I've played amateur football in a few different countries as I work abroad and my impression of American players is actually the exact opposite of what you're suggesting here - i.e. that they don't have good grassroots coaching and therefore many have no idea about the basics. I lived in Seattle for a little while in 2016 and the football facilities there were worse than what we have in say Glasgow in my opinion.

And again, I'm not someone who hates the US, I don't see any reason why an American-based coach should be looked down on for their background, but the reality is we were always going to get Glass in because Cormack already knew him and the stuff he's come out with about American coaches is just some spin to justify his decision.

The point made is 100% true. I’ve lived and coached in the states for over 25 years and been heavily involved in youth coaching, done all the licenses here too. There is a ton of quality coaches, quality players, and some excellent youth programs. It’s the system that is fucked up. Claudia Reyna wrote about it maybe within the last year, I’ll send a link if I have time.

To reach the highest level here you have to either turn pro or go to college. To turn pro or play in college you have to been found/scouted most likely at showcase tournaments. To get to these elite level tournaments you have to play on a high level club team that qualify for these tournaments. That’s really hard. Plus that is extremely selective and costs thousands per family unless you are one of the very few who get financial help or the team is paid for. That’s rare. Plus, for college, the player has to ultimate recruit a coach to come and scout them. There’s a pre established relationship to where the coach knows you, and you go to tournaments they’ll be at. It’s complicated. Ultimately the best players don’t move up, that’s fact. Fucked system.

Flip side, Holland missed out on a recent World Cup. Does that make their programs shit? Up until the last World Cup the us had done well in world cups. They missed one and will be back. There’s a lot of young talent at the national level right now, hope they kick on.

lastly, US soccer, USSF are a bunch of twats from my experience. Top coaches don’t progress. It’s jobs for the boys. Sound familiar? For those who know us soccer, would love to have seen Eric wynalda take over when he applied for the top job but he is too honest and up front. The bosses didn’t like that.

Edited March 25, 2021 by LA-Don

[LA-Don]

I’ll add to the above since there are so many levels, academy programs to factor in too. I quit coaching a team last year as my club had my team traveling to Nevada and Arizona regularly for games. That’s the equivalent to Aberdeen boys playing in Norway, England, Holland etc every other weekend. Imagine being a parent financing that....  again, fucked up system but there is a ton of talent here.

facilities - when I lived in Florida I coached in amazing facilities, probably better than pro teams in Scotland prior to having their modern training facilities. LA facilities are shite funnily enough, although many are turning to turf over grass since climate makes turf cheaper and more maintainable. Sounds like you experienced the latter but there’s some stunning youth facilities too.

[sancho_panza]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

This makes no sense. If Gallagher was put in for "non-footballing reasons", then why wasn't Hernandez?

Gallagher was actually one of Atlanta's better players last season under, funnily enough, Stephen Glass. At least, according to an Atlanta blog I read.

Also, what benefit is there to Atlanta in us enjoying one of their coaches? If he's a massive success and a big club in England come in for him, you think he's going to turn that down to go back to Atlanta? 

This is basically an invitation to start throwing around random guesswork, which I'm reluctant to do because I'll freely admit I don't know how the relationship works. All I'm saying is that a lot of this - the Hernandez signing in particular - doesn't make much sense if you take it at face value. 

If you do take it at face value then we signed a Venezuelan international for an almost club record fee - a signing that was utterly out of step with every other signing our manager made in the eight years he was here. He was then frozen out the team, even behind Logan who had already fallen out of favour at that time, by the same manager who gave Stevie May 60+ appearances in the desperate hope of recouping something from a far smaller transfer fee. At best you could describe it as weird.

With all that said, the questions you've made here aren't that difficult to answer if we start plucking scenarios out of thin air. They might have loaned us Gallagher under the assumption that we'd play him in X% of games - or at the very least it might have been explained to McInnes that he should play him to avoid damaging our budding relationship with Atlanta. The Hernandez signing might have been part-funded by Atlanta with the ultimate aim of him moving there (maybe as some way to avoid rules/financial commitments of some kind), but with us having no obligation to play him in the time he was here. I personally think Cormack probably just hired Glass because he already knew him, but if we want a conspiracy theory it's possible that Glass, having an Atlanta affiliation and being close with Cormack, would be more conducive to future weird loans/transfers than a complete outsider would be - from the perspective of Glass he gets to kickstart a managerial career so it's a fair deal if he occasionally gets a Jon Gallagher foisted on him.

I don't believe a word of that, but the point is none of it is necessarily illogical. I personally thought Gallagher looked technically woeful in his time here and was mystified that he was consistently getting in the team ahead of people like Hedges and Wright, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything either.

[scotfree]

How many of these guys will be playing for us next season?

https://www.atlutd.com/players/squad/atlutd2

Why do I feel like we are becoming Atlanta United 3?

I'm behind Stephen Glass as our new manager, but there is something really not right here. It feels like we are getting "used". 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Brown will be a shrewd signing.  We have been lacking an experienced head in the middle of the park and it is great to have someone in the team who knows how to win first and foremost.  Experience is such an under-rated quality and getting in guys like Brewster, McNamara, Aitken, Newell, Robson and the likes can only be a benefit for the youngsters.  Players who have seen it, done it and have the medals to back it up.  Despite what our fans think about Brown, I'd imagine he will command instant respect from our younger players.  His "history" with us I suspect is something that fans make a hell of a lot more of than players.  Cannot see that any players would harbour a grudge for someone once having kicked a ball at someone else or a bit of a reckless tackle a year or two ago.  It goes on all the time.  Fans get sucked into the emotion of these things because it is their team but for players, it is just a job.

[Panda]

3 hours ago, sancho_panza said:

This is basically an invitation to start throwing around random guesswork, which I'm reluctant to do because I'll freely admit I don't know how the relationship works. All I'm saying is that a lot of this - the Hernandez signing in particular - doesn't make much sense if you take it at face value. 

If you do take it at face value then we signed a Venezuelan international for an almost club record fee - a signing that was utterly out of step with every other signing our manager made in the eight years he was here. He was then frozen out the team, even behind Logan who had already fallen out of favour at that time, by the same manager who gave Stevie May 60+ appearances in the desperate hope of recouping something from a far smaller transfer fee. At best you could describe it as weird.

With all that said, the questions you've made here aren't that difficult to answer if we start plucking scenarios out of thin air. They might have loaned us Gallagher under the assumption that we'd play him in X% of games - or at the very least it might have been explained to McInnes that he should play him to avoid damaging our budding relationship with Atlanta. The Hernandez signing might have been part-funded by Atlanta with the ultimate aim of him moving there (maybe as some way to avoid rules/financial commitments of some kind), but with us having no obligation to play him in the time he was here. I personally think Cormack probably just hired Glass because he already knew him, but if we want a conspiracy theory it's possible that Glass, having an Atlanta affiliation and being close with Cormack, would be more conducive to future weird loans/transfers than a complete outsider would be - from the perspective of Glass he gets to kickstart a managerial career so it's a fair deal if he occasionally gets a Jon Gallagher foisted on him.

I don't believe a word of that, but the point is none of it is necessarily illogical. I personally thought Gallagher looked technically woeful in his time here and was mystified that he was consistently getting in the team ahead of people like Hedges and Wright, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything either.

Pretty much every loan player we've had has been pushed to the front of the queue and been picked regardless of performances. 

The Hernandez signing was weird, aye, I'd give myself a headache trying to tackle that one.

Will we see more Atlanta players coming to Aberdeen? Probably. But at least Glass will be able to tell Cormack which ones are any good. 

There's too much scepticism and paranoia around the Atlanta partnership in my opinion. 

[RicoS321]

2 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Brown will be a shrewd signing.  We have been lacking an experienced head in the middle of the park and it is great to have someone in the team who knows how to win first and foremost.  Experience is such an under-rated quality and getting in guys like Brewster, McNamara, Aitken, Newell, Robson and the likes can only be a benefit for the youngsters.  Players who have seen it, done it and have the medals to back it up.  Despite what our fans think about Brown, I'd imagine he will command instant respect from our younger players.  His "history" with us I suspect is something that fans make a hell of a lot more of than players.  Cannot see that any players would harbour a grudge for someone once having kicked a ball at someone else or a bit of a reckless tackle a year or two ago.  It goes on all the time.  Fans get sucked into the emotion of these things because it is their team but for players, it is just a job.

Fuck sake, we're not talking about about somebody being a dick as a player, we're talking about the gaslighting of our black player. The two are poles apart. To dress that up as fans getting sucked into the emotion of things is gaslighting in itself. It's ridiculous that these things need to be explained in the 21st century. 

To be clear, it's not something that directly affects me, and I believe that Brown made an error of judgement, but if the club are projecting itself as a club that stands against racism - and it does - then it's a fucking humongous elephant in the room to leave unaddressed.

[RicoS321]

6 minutes ago, bearsdenred said:

Hang on, surely Scott Brown will know himself he might have made a mistake in character. But that could be because he's reformed. his gesture for Kamara the other night might actually show people can change. 

But having Brown as 2nd and in the team gives the club that mental state to win these big games I can forgive Brown for his error. 

After all, humans only Learn by their mistakes. Racism has no place at Aberdeen, on the stands on the pitch and especially in the management team. The day Brown signs for Aberdeen, I would love him to acknowledge and apologise both to Shay and the club and leave it at that. I have listened to a lot of shite racist abuse in the stands from the vast majority of clubs in Scotland. 

But we must be able to forgive and let stuff go when people acknowledge it and apologise. After all Rico, the shay incident is between Shay and Tonevi or whatever his name was. He was found guilty not Scott. He did what a captain was supposed to do, but the facts given to Brown was wrong and gave Scott the wrong response. Now looking back, especially after the Kamara incident and the take a knee protest. Players are changing their spots. 

Get behind the team, get behind the club. no matter who is in charge. Christ Derek Mcinnes used to play for the huns and no one cared. 

Jesus fucking Christ. 

[RedStarTorphins]

On 24/03/2021 at 13:37, Chris Frae Killie said:

Well I for one am excited about the future. I was impressed with Glass' interview on RedTV and also Cormack. It sounds like they already have some new players identified and that they will be investing in the squad this summer. There is a real ignorance about US Major League Soccer. For all a lot of people can't stand the US and the style they put on sport, they know how to do it and invest in grass roots and coaching etc. In my opinion, the US are far better at professional sport that we are. Glass comes to us with a really good education which is a lot more than can be said for some young managers here. Jack Ross is an example of a young fairly inexperienced manager and he is doing pretty well as is Gerrard. Atlanta 2 would cuff any Scottish Championship team in Scotland. Glass has more experience than most people are giving him credit for!

Atlanta Utd’s first team has Jake Mulraney & Emerson Hyndman in it.

Can’t be that good. 

[flooter]

Scott Brown is a cunt.  Fuck him and the horse he rides to Aberdeen on. 

Every bit as bad as signing Goodwillie. 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

5 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Fuck sake, we're not talking about about somebody being a dick as a player, we're talking about the gaslighting of our black player. The two are poles apart. To dress that up as fans getting sucked into the emotion of things is gaslighting in itself. It's ridiculous that these things need to be explained in the 21st century. 

To be clear, it's not something that directly affects me, and I believe that Brown made an error of judgement, but if the club are projecting itself as a club that stands against racism - and it does - then it's a fucking humongous elephant in the room to leave unaddressed.

No, you are the one talking about the Logan incident.  If you actually read this thread properly there is reference to incidents with Cosgrove, Watkins, Shinnie and more.  None of those has anything to do with racism and all to do with Brown being a dick as a player.

Edited March 25, 2021 by wokinginashearerwonderland

[RicoS321]

19 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

No, you are the one talking about the Logan incident.  If you actually read this thread properly there is reference to incidents with Cosgrove, Watkins, Shinnie and more.  None of those has anything to do with racism and all to do with Brown being a dick as a player.

Why the fuck would anyone elevate those trivial irrelevancies over the racism incident? 

[Elgindon]

5 hours ago, bearsdenred said:

Is he a new player? 

Might be the chap to resurrect the Dons...(pope willing)

Edited March 25, 2021 by Elgindon

[tom_widdows]

1 hour ago, Elgindon said:

Might be the chap to resurrect the Dons...(pope willing)

Perhaps sort out the recent lack of crosses

[ayrshire_don74]

in guys like Brewster, McNamara, Aitken, Newell, Robson

 

My recollection most of these were shite or had little tangible impact

[tom_widdows]

Brewster had a big impact and Id say he was pinnacle in the Dons fininshing 3rd that season.
9 games, 4 goals and set up the equaliser at Tynecastle all at the tender age of 41.

As for McNamara......

 

[ayrshire_don74]

Aitken ? Meh from me, and didnt rate Newell either

[RicoS321]

17 minutes ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

Aitken ? Meh from me, and didnt rate Newell either

Newell was horse shit, but did score in a 1-0 victory against the Hun (I think). Robson was decent. I'd say it's more like Hartley than Robson though. Except Brown won't be on pens. Hartley was signed at the right time for us as a team, similarly Robson and even Aitken. They were the guys to get us up the league a little when we were in bad shape. Whatever we think of McInnes, we're nowhere near the Brown side he was left nor the McGhee side that Hartley dropped in on. Brown as a player, for me, isn't good enough anymore to take us from third or fourth best upward and could have the opposite effect, becoming a millstone. Hopefully he'll add something from the coaching side of things. It remains to be seen how good he is at passing his own obvious determination and drive onto others.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

57 minutes ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

in guys like Brewster, McNamara, Aitken, Newell, Robson

 

My recollection most of these were shite or had little tangible impact

Leadership qualities, helping younger players develop good habits.  Not suggesting that signing someone of 36 or 37 that they are going to be our star player.

[ayrshire_don74]

4 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Leadership qualities, helping younger players develop good habits.  Not suggesting that signing someone of 36 or 37 that they are going to be our star player.

what leadership qualities did Mcnamara and Newell have ? actually any of them ? big assumption to make , might have been toxic in the dressing room

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

56 minutes ago, ayrshire_don74 said:

what leadership qualities did Mcnamara and Newell have ? actually any of them ? big assumption to make , might have been toxic in the dressing room

Aye, fair enough you are probably right.  Barry Robson must have been toxic in the dressing room because he is still there 8 years later and Aitken must have been toxic in the dressing room to be given the managers job.  McNamara had no leadership qualities despite have captained Celtic.  Craig Brewster would have had no leadership qualities having actually managed teams before he came to us.  And of course the younger players would have learned nothing from Mike Newell because it was only the english premiership that he had won.

[RicoS321]

22 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Aye, fair enough you are probably right.  Barry Robson must have been toxic in the dressing room because he is still there 8 years later and Aitken must have been toxic in the dressing room to be given the managers job.  McNamara had no leadership qualities despite have captained Celtic.  Craig Brewster would have had no leadership qualities having actually managed teams before he came to us.  And of course the younger players would have learned nothing from Mike Newell because it was only the english premiership that he had won.

There's a difference between learning from and being led by, or being a leader though. Most folk on here have been saying that we need a leader for quite some time (not me). But nobody would suggest that younger players couldn't learn from guys like Considine, Lewis and Taylor. There are thousands of examples of players who are very good at football but couldn't coach or lead. As for Brown, he's undoubtedly a fantastic leader on the park. However, as happened with Hartley, if his legs don't aspire to his head then will he command the same respect and trust? Will he manage to transfer his on park leadership off the park into coaching and will he know when to stop playing? It's not straight forward, and there's associated risk. That's before the risk the club has taken appointing a racist apologist.

[tom_widdows]

Red tops claiming Russell has been given the all clear to work with the dons whilst keeping his englandshire role

[tom_widdows]

On 27/03/2021 at 14:32, tom_widdows said:

Red tops claiming Russell has been given the all clear to work with the dons whilst keeping his englandshire role

Thats it confirmed now

https://www.afc.co.uk/2021/04/01/allan-russell-joins-new-management-team/?fbclid=IwAR2vM7gcqE8EqA1oNXauakiHOTCCH__GHqZi3eTN6G9Rn1xdqEMR8nDnFhA

[manc_don]

Potentially a great appointment