Next manager

[wee toon red]

4 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

He's a joke figure down South, a John Hughes. However, because we're in pathetic thrall to everything English fitba, he's massive celebrity news up here, it's cringey as fuck. He's deemed old school and obnoxious. There's a lot not to like about the guy. I specifically don't like the fact that he goes against everything we strategised (supposedly) for the last three years and is a huge step backwards in that regard, possibly even risking alienating players and staff that we might want here next year. However, I realised that with the consultant bollocks, our strategy wasn't actually a strategy at all, simply a bunch of words on a presentation, so I don't think Warnock will be upsetting much. I liked his opening interview and his thoughts about the game. I wasn't particularly enamoured by the time it took to make changes and the changes made against the Hun. I can completely see why people don't like him, but I'm happy enough for the short time that remains. I find his appointment shows a complete lack of competence by our board. It reminds me of the scene in Elf (the overplayed Christmas film) where the publisher asks his crack team of writers for new ideas and they suggest hiring another writer, who'll have better ideas. That is, of course, nothing to do with Warnock.

I don’t think he is a joke figure and he certainly isn’t John Hughes. Hughes can’t get a gig in football now whereas warnock’s still going at 75 so it’s unfair to suggest there’s any similarity.

In general though, is it fair to say you’ve got concerns about the process and what it says about the club in general more so than Warnock specifically?

There are a couple of other posters who I’d say go beyond that level of concern into what comes across as a visceral hatred of the guy and I’m genuinely wondering where that comes from. Is it because he might be a bit brexity? The alleged (irrelevant) Hun links? Something else?

[wee toon red]

1 hour ago, Jute said:

Tomasson won league twice with Malmo and 44% of his games at Blackburn (above Warnock’s average 40% win ratio) so would have been worth considering but given he is allegedly getting the Swedish international gig next I suspect that ship has sailed. 
 

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11676/13067307/blackburn-rovers-john-eustace-expected-to-take-over-as-manager-after-jon-dahl-tomasson-exit

Warnock is the darling of the English talk shows and soccer Saturday so hardly unfashionable. I just do not get the benefit of brining him him does. 

If he takes us up the league and ideally into Europe then there’s your benefit. We weren’t getting that with Robson and to try and repeat that process by giving Leven the gig as caretaker would actually be madness.

The board - rightly or wrongly, we’ll know in a couple of months - feel Warnock is our best bet to achieve what we can from the rest of the season while they review the whole setup. We don’t know who else was interested so can’t judge whether he’s the man for the job until we see some results. That doesn’t seem like an outrageous way to go about things after the last three appointments to me.

Warnock always seemed a wanker a few years ago but there are plenty examples of people in football who are wankers until they’re your wanker so I’m happy to see how the guy does before rushing to judgement.

[Madbadteacher]

5 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

He's a joke figure down South, a John Hughes. However, because we're in pathetic thrall to everything English fitba, he's massive celebrity news up here, it's cringey as fuck. He's deemed old school and obnoxious. There's a lot not to like about the guy. I specifically don't like the fact that he goes against everything we strategised (supposedly) for the last three years and is a huge step backwards in that regard, possibly even risking alienating players and staff that we might want here next year. However, I realised that with the consultant bollocks, our strategy wasn't actually a strategy at all, simply a bunch of words on a presentation, so I don't think Warnock will be upsetting much. I liked his opening interview and his thoughts about the game. I wasn't particularly enamoured by the time it took to make changes and the changes made against the Hun. I can completely see why people don't like him, but I'm happy enough for the short time that remains. I find his appointment shows a complete lack of competence by our board. It reminds me of the scene in Elf (the overplayed Christmas film) where the publisher asks his crack team of writers for new ideas and they suggest hiring another writer, who'll have better ideas. That is, of course, nothing to do with Warnock.

Oh just fuck off and support your team!

[Madbadteacher]

Rico, I’m assuming if we win the cup or qualify for European football by the end of the season you’ll still be calling this a joke and be even angrier?

[RicoS321]

3 hours ago, Madbadteacher said:

Rico, I’m assuming if we win the cup or qualify for European football by the end of the season you’ll still be calling this a joke and be even angrier?

You've read anger in my comment where none exists.

[Madbadteacher]

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

You've read anger in my comment where none exists.

Oh, clearly it does 

[RicoS321]

19 minutes ago, Madbadteacher said:

Oh, clearly it does 

Nope, you've misunderstood. I was responding to a post asking why people might be aggrieved at Warnock signing. I was giving those reasons. My own thinking is that I'm okay with Warnock himself (I actually quite like him), just disappointed in the club who sold us a strategy for the last three years. 

[redordead]

Despite the score tonight, I have to say that I've enjoyed watching Airdrie play hearts. 

If it possible to make our team play like this if Airdrie can?

N.b they're tiring as the game goes on but surely a squad of full timers coached by McCabe should be a pleasure to watch.

[Panda]

Johan Hoff Thorup (Nordsjæland, Denmark)

In the Conference League they finished third, but beat Ludogorets 7-1 and Fenerbahce 6-1 (which makes you wonder how the hell they finished third).

A bigger club will be along for him soon you imagine.

Erik Horneland (SK Brann, Norway)

Did well at Haugesund, struggled at Rosenborg, but doing well again at Brann where he has a 65% win rate and has won the Norwegian Cup. Finished second last season behind Bodo/Glimt.

Jimmy Thelin (Elfsborg, Sweden)

Already posted about him. Elfsborg finished second last season and Thelin's direct 4-2-3-1 I think would work well in Scottish football.

Actually suffered a 3-2 defeat to a lower league team in the Swedish Cup yesterday, but it's a group stage so they can still progress.

Stephen Robinson (St Mirren, Scotland)

Might finish fifth with St Mirren in a really poor league. But "knows the league", is a "safe pair of hands", and "Most St Mirren fans like him". 

Would also fit our strategy of sacking Derek McInnes but not actually replacing him with better.

Brendan Rodgers (Celtic, Scotland)

Was once a really highly thought of manager. Likely to be a free agent soon and looking for a new challenge.

 

[Slim]

I like the Scandinavian option more than the Japanese/Australian league option that we seemed to be considering before we appointed Robson.

Would still prefer the former-Yugoslavian war criminal who has managed half a dozen African countries to the World Cup profile.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Slim said:

Would still prefer the former-Yugoslavian war criminal who has managed half a dozen African countries to the World Cup profile

We've certainly got the chairman to make that happen.

[Kowalski]

At the time, I was content to see the back of McInnes, he had run his course. 
 

But at this rate we be as well bring him back as I haven’t heard any better suggestions, which in itself is concerning. Doing a very decent job with Killie and has them punching well above their weight. 

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, Kowalski said:

At the time, I was content to see the back of McInnes, he had run his course. 
 

But at this rate we be as well bring him back as I haven’t heard any better suggestions, which in itself is concerning. Doing a very decent job with Killie and has them punching well above their weight. 

You’re looking at your ex cos your single, sitting in the pub a little depressed with the boys, in has walked your ex looking fit and tanned, holding the hand of a good looking bloke who drives a nice shiny merc. You think what could have been. Go home for a wank, you’ll feel better.
we were shit under mcinnes in the end. We were a good side but that was in the past - Lewis Logan considine Reynolds’s, jack, McLean, shinnie, mcginn, Hayes, cosgrove, Rooney etc were old aging or gone. We were an awful long ball team, poor on the field and failing to bring in quality new players. Gone were the days of having some of the best players in the league in their positions , mcinnes was talented but also lucky. Consistent second and one trophy while everyone bar Celtic were going through troubles and had been relegated. You could argue he also underachieved. Definitely a nice spell we all enjoyed but that had gone well before we finally said goodbye to mcinnes. We also were all happy to see Milne go.

we cannot compare mcinnes at Kellie to us, very different expectation and mcinnes isnt a dummy. Our league isn’t strong, we saw that when Robson went on a run last year. Hearts are on a run, killie too, but next year they could be us, bottom six pish, killie could be relegated, you never know.

cormack is learning quickly that running a club is hard. Give him credit though he appears willing to spend. He loaned in a bunch of players and got push back, now we’ve signed a bunch of shit and we’re in a bit of a pickle with a bloated squad of pish. We’re failing with managers but you fail and learn. he’s learning, but also needs quality senior management to help run his club. I have to believe he’s evaluating structure as it’s been three close to identical situations where we punt a similar manager in a similar timeframe.
i believe we are not the club for a new manager to learn how to manage. We need someone who knows what they are doing, has some battle scars, and has seen a lot already. They also have a good network and connections in the transfer market. I’ll give mcinnes credit, I think he’s the type we’re looking for, but not the one. I don’t support going back to an old club and trying to repeat the past, that’s hard. I see Alex Neill as an option. I’d also take a punt on any of the Scandinavians mentioned before Lennon lambert and the usual names, although are they just Scandinavian Goodwin? I was even intrigued but the Rodriguez bloke who is in Asia. Provided there’s a management structure in place that prepares a new guy, foreign may be an option. Clearly support didn’t happen to the last 3, even it appears with warnock.  We can’t go to the usual names we’ve heard for three years, nobody in their right mind wants a part of that.

the season is written off, we won’t make top six or Europe, and based on yesterday, plus 3 losses out of 3 without a goal scored against killie, hard to believe the cup will be successful. its time for cormack to give a club update. What’s the current situation, what progress are we making re new manager and potential new structure or changes? He’s got to get ahead of this because with every week it’s getting uglier with the fans and people will turn on and target warnock very quickly if they havent already. Warnock isn’t blameless but the finger has to get pointed at Gunn, cormack, and warnock to a point.

 

[Panda]

7 hours ago, Kowalski said:

At the time, I was content to see the back of McInnes, he had run his course. 
 

But at this rate we be as well bring him back as I haven’t heard any better suggestions, which in itself is concerning. Doing a very decent job with Killie and has them punching well above their weight. 

Kilmarnock aren't punching above their weight though. Neither are St Mirren. Unless either of them end the season with the Scottish Cup, they are where they should be when you consider the state of the Scottish Premiership.

Yes, Kilmarnock are having a good season, taking advantage of bigger clubs like Aberdeen and Hibs having a poor season and Dundee United being out of it. It's allowed Killie, St Mirren and Dundee to be higher than they normally would be.

The Killie board - seeing European football within their grasp - have backed McInnes and they were able to offer more money than Motherwell to secure Van Veen, while they have picked up a fair few others on decent money.

But I don't see any legacy building at Kilmarnock. Once the European campaign ends in August, Armstrong and Watson leave, Van Veen goes back to Holland, and (you hope) Aberdeen sort themselves out, Killie will head back down the table.

And if McInnes came back here, he'd cause the same problems he did before. Yes, he might get more from this squad than Robson/Warnock, but it's short term success. Long term we'd continue to rely on loans and throw money at signings, and we'd probably slip back like we did in his first spell.

We should be looking for better than McInnes.

 

5 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

I’d also take a punt on any of the Scandinavians mentioned before Lennon lambert and the usual names, although are they just Scandinavian Goodwin? 

 

Goodwin actually achieved very little with St Mirren. He's not in the same conversation as the exciting prospects out there.

He was - we thought - the right man when he came in as we needed a bit of pragmatism after Glassball had loads of possession but could not score or defend. Instead he tried to be something he wasn't and failed spectacularly.

This time we need a manager that has a history of turning clubs into a team to be feared, who short term can galvanise the support and long term can make us a force again. We need a more attainable version of Philippe Clement to be honest.

Scandinavia is a hotbed for cracking managers under 50 who are doing great things at small clubs on limited resources.

[RicoS321]

7 hours ago, Panda said:

Kilmarnock aren't punching above their weight though. Neither are St Mirren. Unless either of them end the season with the Scottish Cup, they are where they should be when you consider the state of the Scottish Premiership.

Yes, Kilmarnock are having a good season, taking advantage of bigger clubs like Aberdeen and Hibs having a poor season and Dundee United being out of it. It's allowed Killie, St Mirren and Dundee to be higher than they normally would be.

The Killie board - seeing European football within their grasp - have backed McInnes and they were able to offer more money than Motherwell to secure Van Veen, while they have picked up a fair few others on decent money.

But I don't see any legacy building at Kilmarnock. Once the European campaign ends in August, Armstrong and Watson leave, Van Veen goes back to Holland, and (you hope) Aberdeen sort themselves out, Killie will head back down the table.

And if McInnes came back here, he'd cause the same problems he did before. Yes, he might get more from this squad than Robson/Warnock, but it's short term success. Long term we'd continue to rely on loans and throw money at signings, and we'd probably slip back like we did in his first spell.

We should be looking for better than McInnes.

 

Goodwin actually achieved very little with St Mirren. He's not in the same conversation as the exciting prospects out there.

He was - we thought - the right man when he came in as we needed a bit of pragmatism after Glassball had loads of possession but could not score or defend. Instead he tried to be something he wasn't and failed spectacularly.

This time we need a manager that has a history of turning clubs into a team to be feared, who short term can galvanise the support and long term can make us a force again. We need a more attainable version of Philippe Clement to be honest.

Scandinavia is a hotbed for cracking managers under 50 who are doing great things at small clubs on limited resources.

This sounds very good (apart from the Clement bit), but what does building a legacy actually mean? Is it attainable in Scottish football, with its small, tight, league and trigger happy chairmen? Is there a single example of it in Scottish football? Surely, if legacy is our goal, then the manager is only a small part of that, and what happens behind the scenes is far more important (any really good manager will leave within a couple of seasons)? For me, Cormack was right to identify strong, independent, roles for recruitment, youth development, sports science etc, all under the handle of a knowledgeable director with a clear strategy. The execution was massively flawed of course. Incompetent, I'd say.

As for the Scandinavian coaches, what specifically is it they're offering that coaches in Scotland aren't? Is it just timing, in that there happen to be a few good ones whilst there's slim pickings here just now? More specifically, what is it with regard to legacy building that they're doing? Are they making sustained progress (or not significantly regressing), or are they just flavour of the Scandi moment, in the same way Robinson might get binned for a poor start next season? Is it the managers' approach that's making the difference or are the clubs themselves the ones creating the environment for success? In other words, is there any evidence that those clubs will continue to be successful once giants like the Dons swoop in and steal their manager (legacy)?

McInnes' relative success at Killie has been down to a sustained team over the past few seasons, simply swapping in and out known quantities (Findlay, for example, was a far better signing than any of our centre backs) to gradually improve them season by season. We've had three seasons of 10+ transfers in the summer and January loanees, resulting in our errors just being carried forward. McInnes has been backed by his club, basically. 

[Panda]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

This sounds very good (apart from the Clement bit),

Clement has now joined the same gym as me, so we're basically pals now. As is Nick Walsh who is also a member.

Together the three of us basically run Scottish football.

[RicoS321]

29 minutes ago, Panda said:

Clement has now joined the same gym as me, so we're basically pals now. As is Nick Walsh who is also a member.

Together the three of us basically run Scottish football.

This only furthers my belief that gyms are for weirdos.

[OrlandoDon]

Wtf tonight. 6 midfielders to start, including 5 center mids if you include Milne. We have to stop fanning around with formation, you cannot chop and change both formation and personnel and expect consistent performance….maybe consistent shite. This isn’t preseason, what the fuck are we doing?

curious what happened with devlin not starting tonight, he’s possibly our player of the year…??

where do we go from here. 4 points off 11th….!!

[Slim]

He’s clearly just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.

[RicoS321]

The charlatan has to go now. He's not up to it and we'll end up relegated if we don't act. He's not taking it seriously, and shouldn't be here. He obviously thought he could just turn up and wing it. What a fucking embarrassment. He's taking the piss out of our club and every Dons fan. 

[Jute]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

The charlatan has to go now. He's not up to it and we'll end up relegated if we don't act. He's not taking it seriously, and shouldn't be here. He obviously thought he could just turn up and wing it. What a fucking embarrassment. He's taking the piss out of our club and every Dons fan. 

Totally agree.

I feared Warnock and his circus would be disaster but this is worse than even I feared. He has sucked what confidence was left out of the team. He needs emptied tonight. 

[OrlandoDon]

I was one of the few who felt what we are doing made sense, a review of the whole footballing side of things with an experienced head to see us through to the end of the season. Warnock has been in this type of situation many times, a team closer to the bottom of the league than top and see them to safety. His man management skills were emphasized too, someone who would get the team some confidence.
saying that, what the fuck is going on?  It’s pick names out of the hat and throw them onto the field. Six midfielders tonight and a 3-6-1. Each game a different fuck up. He benched Devlin and Mackenzie who, in my opinion, have been two of our better performers this season. It’s clear he has no fucking clue about our players, how we play and have been playing, and what has/hasn’t worked. Each game is just a repeat of a Robson fuck up.
If we wanted an old master to see us through until the end of the season we’d have been better off with Willie miller, someone who knows the team club and players….i think! Then again, if we were more concerned about personality and team bonding I am sure there are plenty of others out there, say John Hughes (joking really) who know more about the club and players than warnock.

he seems totally clueless, it’s no better, arguably worse, than Robson. As many including myself have said, we don’t have the time for trial and error. What structure is in place now? Who supports warnock? Are any of our back room staff giving him any feedback?

fucking comical. And seriously worrying.

[Kowalski]

Based on the Football Monitoring Board’s record to date I wouldn’t be surprised if Wayne Rooney is our next manager. 

[OxfordDon]

On the plus side, at least it's cheaper to sack an interim manager than a permanent one.

[RicoS321]

3 minutes ago, OxfordDon said:

On the plus side, at least it's cheaper to sack an interim manager than a permanent one.

Cormack will have inserted a runaway clause into his contract, giving him three years EPL salary.

He didn't do a huge amount wrong today, given our current mess. He was unlucky. However, the overall collapse since he arrived leads to this sort of pish. It's similar to that Goodwin game where we collapsed. 

We will be in the playoffs if Warnock stays. He needs to go.