Next manager

[RicoS321]

26 minutes ago, STFU_Donny said:

And the FMB deemed Robson the cheaper candidate. 

 

[STFU_Donny]

31 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

 

Well they’re certainly paying the price now. 
 

It’s truly bizarre, spending hundreds of thousands on utter dross but scrimping on the management. 

[RicoS321]

55 minutes ago, STFU_Donny said:

Well they’re certainly paying the price now. 
 

It’s truly bizarre, spending hundreds of thousands on utter dross but scrimping on the management. 

It's actually not that strange, it's exactly what our supposed strategy should allow us to do. It's what data Dave talked about when he first joined as chairman, before spending the next four years making an utter cunt of it.

[OxfordDon]

7 hours ago, Panda said:

 

Stop pissing about and go get him.

Not convinced, what use is a manager that loses the title on the final day - we want a manager that loses the title nice and early in the season, so we can get the next manager in.

[BigAl]

29 minutes ago, OxfordDon said:

Not convinced, what use is a manager that loses the title on the final day - we want a manager that loses the title nice and early in the season, so we can get the next manager in.

Alex Smith BHH 

[Panda]

 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

 

That's basically what Robson attempted but failed. For all the accusations of us making long ball punts under Robson, it was very clear that was never the intention. Clarkson was clearly instructed to move the ball as soon as he got it for the over the top run, or flick on when we had two up top. Shinnie and Ramadani provided the high line last season, which we couldn't replicate this one. Because that's the issue, isn't it? If we can't implement this lad's first choice strategy because the recruitment doesn't quite return the necessary players (high likelihood), what's his plan B, and will we show the required patience if he needs three windows to implement? Also, what does he do when Livingston sit inside their own box for ninety minutes? 

I'm not suggesting this lad wouldn't be a good manager, of course, just that these computer game analytics don't generally give the whole picture. 

Anyway, get him in. Even though he refuses to come because we're shitter than his current team and the myth that you need to move to a country within the UK in order to "be seen down South", is exactly that. 

[Panda]

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

That's basically what Robson attempted but failed. 

It may have been what he thought he was attempting but he went about it in a completely different way.

Robson played three at the back and punted the long balls for Miovski to chase. And no wingers (except for when Shayden Morris was thrown on as a game changer). They were aimless long balls.

Thelin appears to play a 4-2-3-1 with wingers staying high and being the main recipients of the long pass. 

 

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Also, what does he do when Livingston sit inside their own box for ninety minutes? 

Hopefully we would pass the ball instead of what we did on Wednesday where it lumped hopefully into the box in the hope something might fall.

But who knows, maybe Thelin doesn't have a plan B which is why he hasn't moved on from Elfsborg yet.

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

[RicoS321]

6 hours ago, Panda said:

It may have been what he thought he was attempting but he went about it in a completely different way.

Robson played three at the back and punted the long balls for Miovski to chase. And no wingers (except for when Shayden Morris was thrown on as a game changer). They were aimless long balls.

Thelin appears to play a 4-2-3-1 with wingers staying high and being the main recipients of the long pass. 

 

Hopefully we would pass the ball instead of what we did on Wednesday where it lumped hopefully into the box in the hope something might fall.

But who knows, maybe Thelin doesn't have a plan B which is why he hasn't moved on from Elfsborg yet.

I think it's a little revisionist to say that Robson had Clarkson punting long balls for Miovski to chase. Firstly, Clarkson doesn't really punt, he's an extremely good passer and, secondly, it worked very well in the run in last season with two high midfielders. The two wingers point is valid to a degree, however a back three is fairly pragmatic in Scotland and the two wingers were replaced by an on fire Duk and McRorie bustling about fairly high up the park too. You take all those things out, and add in a defence that doesn't really like defending and you've got to move to plan B. For whatever reason, that took Robson up until the day he was sacked to realise. Since we've moved to a 4-2-3-1, it's been fairly obvious we don't have the personnel to play the way Thelin would like, and he couldn't just magic those attributes into the existing lot. A summer of recruitment will be very unlikely to get us from here to there either, so if we do employ the guy he has to be aware that he's probably going to have to do plan B for a while, and the fans are going to have to be patient. 

I'm certain that Cormack will "go foreign" if he can, so this guy seems as good as any other. I'm just very wary of when people say "this is how a manager likes to play football", especially when we've just sat through six months of Robson setting up the way he likes to play football in full view of the evidence that it was failing miserably. Pragmatism is going to be required for some time, something a guy like Steve Clarke understood at Killie for example. Playing it simple, to the strengths of the players available, and keeping their individual instructions simple.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

All this tactical talk on paper is fine, the guy plays 4-2-3-1 nonsense but that is with his current team.  You cannot just say that is "his" formation, he will be playing that way because that is the best way to set out he players he has at his disposal at the moment.  It might not necessarily be the right way for us to play.  If you inherit a squad with 12 centre halves and 1 striker then trying to play four up front is just stupid.

And also, what is a 4-2-3-1?  They are just numbers.  If the 3 behind the striker are Overmars, Kanchelskis and Zidane you get a helluva different team than if the three are Modric, Iniesta and De Bruyne.  Exactly the same with this three at the back talk.  Rico, says in his post that three at the back is a pretty pragmatic way to play in Scotland.  Well Man City play three at the back quite a bit and it is anything but pragmatic.  It depends how you deploy your players not what equation you come up with when you chuck the names into a formation.

 

  

[Panda]

3 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

I think it's a little revisionist to say that Robson had Clarkson punting long balls for Miovski to chase. Firstly, Clarkson doesn't really punt, he's an extremely good passer and, secondly, it worked very well in the run in last season with two high midfielders. The two wingers point is valid to a degree, however a back three is fairly pragmatic in Scotland and the two wingers were replaced by an on fire Duk and McRorie bustling about fairly high up the park too. You take all those things out, and add in a defence that doesn't really like defending and you've got to move to plan B. For whatever reason, that took Robson up until the day he was sacked to realise.

But there was never any progress in the tactic under Robson. IF (and we don't even know, I suspect it wasn't) Robson's long term plan was to play a similar way to Thelin, then we saw little example of any sort of improvement or a team evolving.

It's not revisionist to say it was punting long balls because that's what it was. The defeat at Tynecastle in September was a glaring and obvious example of a team punting it long without any real idea what they were trying to achieve. That's not all on Clarkson, these punts were coming from everywhere.

I have my doubts his plan was to play like that. It looked more like a "hit it long to their back line and try win the second balls". 

What alarmed me about the Dundee game (I know we're post Robson but it's still his legacy) was we would hit it long, lose it, and did little pressing to win it back. So many players stood and waited for Dundee to hit it back to us. That's not just down to wrong personnel.

 

3 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Since we've moved to a 4-2-3-1, it's been fairly obvious we don't have the personnel to play the way Thelin would like, and he couldn't just magic those attributes into the existing lot. A summer of recruitment will be very unlikely to get us from here to there either, so if we do employ the guy he has to be aware that he's probably going to have to do plan B for a while, and the fans are going to have to be patient. 

Well aye, we do have to accept it'll take a few transfer windows.

Glass I backed because I felt that's what he needed. Maybe it still would have turned to shit but I still feel he was sacked too early.

Goodwin & Robson, it was clear more transfer windows wouldn't fix what were managers who weren't good enough.

That all said: Jimmy Thelin - I think if we have already began interviews and haven't even approached this guy, then he's probably not going to be the next manager. Which is a real shame as I think the style he plays is actually more realistic for the Scottish game. 

 

[OrlandoDon]

Jimmy Thelin, Lennon, Michael O’Neill, Alex Neil, a return of McInnes……that’s about all I’ve heard of late, although don’t hear much 4200 miles away….

[Jute]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

Jimmy Thelin, Lennon, Michael O’Neill, Alex Neil, a return of McInnes……that’s about all I’ve heard of late, although don’t hear much 4200 miles away….

Don’t worry there’s not many different names circulating here either. Only new name recently circulating is Ronny Deila who has just been sacked by Brugge. Can’t see it being him either. 

[OrlandoDon]

45 minutes ago, Jute said:

Don’t worry there’s not many different names circulating here either. Only new name recently circulating is Ronny Deila who has just been sacked by Brugge. Can’t see it being him either. 

God no, that just ruined my night. Although you could have said Deila with Lennon as assistant.

[tlg1903]

One thing I do find interesting is Mcinnes, to the best of my knowledge anyway, has yet to be asked it about it by the media.  And you would think they would have by now after the warnock debacle.  I can't help but wonder if he has instructed journalists before any interview not to ask him about it. If that is the case (and of course that is nothing but speculation) then it would possibly suggest an interest in coming back.  

 

I'm normally never go back but I would be happy to make an exception in this case.  With hindsight I feel he was a bit hard done by previously.  It had absolutely gone very stale by the end of his tenure but I think a big reason for that now is that cormack kept the purse strings tight as he wanted to bring in his own man.  I can't be the only person on here that has wondered what Mcinnes could have done with such an increased wage budget that every manager since has enjoyed. 

How would everyone feel if it was DM once again? 

[Slim]

It would be depressing as fuck if McInnes was the best we could come up with.

[Panda]

2 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

  I can't help but wonder if he has instructed journalists before any interview not to ask him about it.

He hasn't. 

2 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

 

 I think a big reason for that now is that cormack kept the purse strings tight as he wanted to bring in his own man.  

Bit of a myth really since Glass was his own man and we didn't spend big until Goodwin arrived.

2 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

How would everyone feel if it was DM once again? 

I'd give up. 

He gave us some good times, but it's time to move on.

[Goldie03]

Omg I never want McInnes back I had enough of him way before he left!! 

We could probs keep us out of relegation but then he would bring everyone back from Killie and they would all play as pish as they did when they were here the first time 

Interestingly I was in London last week visiting youngest daughter and was in an Adidas shop buying trainers. Got talking to the sales guy and he said he had never met anyone scottish that didn't support either Celtic or The Rangers.

He knew Warnock had been our manager so the publicity with that had reached Battersea 

[redordead]

Not McInnes for me. Too set in the establishment. No intention of upsetting the Applecart and as a result we had annual squads of mediocre achievers.

 

We need someone who wants to change things and realises that things have to be done differently to make an impact.

[OrlandoDon]

Mcinnes gave us some stability but he ultimately won one trophy when there was no rangers and we were in decline in his later years. Many think he underachieved with the squads he had and the turmoil of other clubs. We were also pretty brutal to watch in the end. 
said this before, we’re in limbo and some tend to only think of mcinnes and the positives, but there was a reason we moved on from him. we should keep it that way. I’d certainly be disappointed if we brought him back. 

[tlg1903]

20 hours ago, Panda said:

He hasn't. 

Bit of a myth really since Glass was his own man and we didn't spend big until Goodwin arrived.

I'd give up. 

He gave us some good times, but it's time to move on.

Disagree, Ramirez's wage alone proves we started spending bigger the moment Mcinnes left. That season we also payed fees for besuijen, Jet and bates as well I think? Brown would have been on a higher wage than anything Mcinnes could have offered either.  

I agree however Goodwin was given even more to play with but of the three Mcinnes clearly had the smallest pot and imo it's because Cormack wanted to move him on.  

[BigAl]

Apologies for the source but The Sun suggesting Thelin is no longer in the running and remaining in Sweden 

[tlg1903]

15 hours ago, Goldie03 said:

Omg I never want McInnes back I had enough of him way before he left!! 

We could probs keep us out of relegation but then he would bring everyone back from Killie and they would all play as pish as they did when they were here the first time 

Interestingly I was in London last week visiting youngest daughter and was in an Adidas shop buying trainers. Got talking to the sales guy and he said he had never met anyone scottish that didn't support either Celtic or The Rangers.

He knew Warnock had been our manager so the publicity with that had reached Battersea 

He could take that Armstrong kid if he wanted.  

That's fair though. Personally I think both parties have moved on enough that a reconnection would likely produce something new but that's just my opinion.  It could be distinctly average.... Though I doubt it would ever get worse than that. 

[tlg1903]

2 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Apologies for the source but The Sun suggesting Thelin is no longer in the running and remaining in Sweden 

Aye the record is running that too.  

[STFU_Donny]

3 hours ago, BigAl said:

Apologies for the source but The Sun suggesting Thelin is no longer in the running and remaining in Sweden 

Not for one second did I buy into that link. Thelin no longer in the running for Dons job is akin to when Eamonn Holmes said he wouldn’t date Taylor Swift.

Saw Barry Robson walking through Cults earlier, wonder what he’s up to?