Next manager

[Panda]

4 hours ago, wee toon red said:

Much better to take however long is necessary to get the right guy than to rush into something to appease the fans. 

But that's not what has happened. The club aren't simply "taking their time". 

They had five months last season to pinpoint targets. They've put an interim in place this year and made little move to get their new man while Warnock was setting the place on fire. They have began interviews two weeks after their interim fucked off because he was dismayed at what was going on behind the scenes.

 

[wee toon red]

46 minutes ago, Panda said:

But that's not what has happened. The club aren't simply "taking their time". 

They had five months last season to pinpoint targets. They've put an interim in place this year and made little move to get their new man while Warnock was setting the place on fire. They have began interviews two weeks after their interim fucked off because he was dismayed at what was going on behind the scenes.

 

Aye but have they though, or is that another assumption?

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

But that's not what has happened. The club aren't simply "taking their time". 

They had five months last season to pinpoint targets. They've put an interim in place this year and made little move to get their new man while Warnock was setting the place on fire. They have began interviews two weeks after their interim fucked off because he was dismayed at what was going on behind the scenes.

 

It appears a shit show from the outside but do we really know? We can speculate but are we lining up a manager? Technical Director? Both at the same time? One or both under contract? Had to wait until they were out of a cup, Europe, safe from relegation etc…. All takes time.

again, it looks like a shit show but we can only speculate. Much like the media appear to have no fucking clue and haven’t identified who we have narrowed it down to. They can’t speculate jimmy thelin has ruled himself out but if they knew that then surely they’d tell us who was still in the running?

[Panda]

1 hour ago, wee toon red said:

Aye but have they though, or is that another assumption?

Have they what? Pissed about? Absolutely.

28 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

It appears a shit show from the outside but do we really know? We can speculate but are we lining up a manager? Technical Director? Both at the same time? One or both under contract? Had to wait until they were out of a cup, Europe, safe from relegation etc…. All takes time.

As far as I'm aware, we're appointing a manager before a technical director.

28 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

again, it looks like a shit show but we can only speculate. Much like the media appear to have no fucking clue and haven’t identified who we have narrowed it down to.

Not all of it is speculation and the media may have more of a clue than you think. Maybe not about who will be manager, but why certain others won't be.

28 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

 

They can’t speculate jimmy thelin has ruled himself out but if they knew that then surely they’d tell us who was still in the running?

Do you think Jimmy Thelin is still in the running?

[OrlandoDon]

51 minutes ago, Panda said:

Have they what? Pissed about? Absolutely.

As far as I'm aware, we're appointing a manager before a technical director.

Not all of it is speculation and the media may have more of a clue than you think. Maybe not about who will be manager, but why certain others won't be.

Do you think Jimmy Thelin is still in the running?

That would be autocorrect, ‘they can speculate…’

no clue if he’s still in the running. We’re all frustrated with the season and for the most part the last 3 years, and we’re impatiently wanting a resolution to the situation, but unless you are directly involved then it is pretty much speculation. I don’t know the inner workings of signing a manager or director of coaching, don’t know who we have spoken to, the process etc. I’ll judge when we appoint, harshly if it’s lambert, John Hughes, Billy Davies etc.

we’re all armchair fans who think we know more than we do. I think many of us are extremely naive when it comes to coaching, managing, and running a footballing business. It’s a very unique situation. it takes even more time given how our last couple of months have gone, we had an audit and that’s a process hence we haven’t hired someone. I dont think the length of time is a shit show (although in hindsight warnock was.) I’m also sure most potential targets are wanting to know if we are relegated or qualifying for Europe for example. Due to the public nature we all have an opinion but that’s just that, but it’s a slow process.

[redordead]

Now that McCabe has won something can we get him up the road tomorrow?

[Panda]

1 hour ago, OrlandoDon said:

That would be autocorrect, ‘they can speculate…’

no clue if he’s still in the running. We’re all frustrated with the season and for the most part the last 3 years, and we’re impatiently wanting a resolution to the situation, but unless you are directly involved then it is pretty much speculation. I don’t know the inner workings of signing a manager or director of coaching, don’t know who we have spoken to, the process etc. I’ll judge when we appoint, harshly if it’s lambert, John Hughes, Billy Davies etc.

we’re all armchair fans who think we know more than we do. I think many of us are extremely naive when it comes to coaching, managing, and running a footballing business. It’s a very unique situation. it takes even more time given how our last couple of months have gone, we had an audit and that’s a process hence we haven’t hired someone. I dont think the length of time is a shit show (although in hindsight warnock was.) I’m also sure most potential targets are wanting to know if we are relegated or qualifying for Europe for example. Due to the public nature we all have an opinion but that’s just that, but it’s a slow process.

We're just making excuses for the club here.

Never in my whole life have I known a football club to take this long to appoint someone.

Now I should say, I'm not criticising them for this week and the time it's taken them to whittle down their shortlist and get it over the line, because that's fine, that does take time.

But we appear to have sacked Barry Robson with little imagination as to what to do next bar giving the likes of Lennon and Warnock a call. We've needed a German company to come in and say "yeh, you see all that success there you're targeting, you might need a good manager and a proper coaching structure to do that."

[KWT15]

2 hours ago, Panda said:

Not all of it is speculation and the media may have more of a clue than you think.

Appreciate that's how you earn your livelihood, but if this is the case, it is just as big a problem as any Board indecision/incompetence.  Anyone in the club that has sufficient clout to be that in the know, who is also providing/giving/selling info of that type to the media (or trusting others with it that are), is a HUGE issue and no amount of improvement in technical structure will change that.

[RicoS321]

5 hours ago, KWT15 said:

Appreciate that's how you earn your livelihood, but if this is the case, it is just as big a problem as any Board indecision/incompetence.  Anyone in the club that has sufficient clout to be that in the know, who is also providing/giving/selling info of that type to the media (or trusting others with it that are), is a HUGE issue and no amount of improvement in technical structure will change that.

Cormack himself is known to be a serial leaker. I'm going to give him credit and say that he is using the media to guage fan's response to things. There's a strong chance that things that you read in certain newspapers are from the man himself. I guess that the media are a tool to be used, as they're likely to print whatever they like anyway. Remember the way that the Huns used the BBC to try and get McInnes? It didn't work in the end, but it unsettled the club and the manager nevertheless. Most things that leak to the press are of zero consequence anyway, and it pays to have a little gossip firing around about the club, keeping them relevant. Things like timings are the tricky one, as that unsettles and annoys people, as we're largely quite irrational. Saying that you expect business to be conplete by the weekend, for example, is just asking for trouble. I have no doubt that a lot of these types of discussion are casual and throw away remarks not to be taken as hard deadlines, but a little bit of savvy in-house would know that just compounds impatience. Saying "could be the weekend", or "a week or so" will become "Aberdeen expects... by the weekend/within a week". It's okay to say that we're far down the line but don't want to put a timescale on it incase of unforeseen circumstances. Although we should be pretty fucking good at hiring managers these days.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

9 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

I'm going to give him credit and say that he is using the media to gauge fan's response to things. 

That's a major problem though.  It is maybe easier said than done but Cormack needs to stop trying to butter up the fans and just be his own man rather than worrying about how popular he is.  For example all this crap in his Twitter message about not doing walking away just looks amateurish.

Whether people like the idea or not, he is the owner of the club and we are all customers.  Just make a proper decision, stick to it and see it out.  All this talk about technical directors, next season and transfer windows is fine but we need to get someone in ASAP to stop the club being relegated. 

We were looking for a manager this time last year so what has happened to the shortlist from then?  Ok some of the potential targets may now be in work elsewhere but there must be a few of the names still employable, we should not need to be starting from scratch.  It is the same job needing filled as it was a year ago.

     

 

 

[Kowalski]

At this rate the odds on it being Allardyce until the end of the season must be shortening. 

[Panda]

Michael O'Neill rumours doing the rounds, mainly based off his Northern Ireland press conference today where he didn't rule out the Aberdeen job.

I had heard a few things weeks ago but was under the impression it hadn't come to anything and any interest was now over. 

But I would be delighted if there was substance to these rumours and it was him. The day Robson was sacked I tweeted two names - Jimmy Thelin & Michael O'Neill. 

[Jute]

7 hours ago, Panda said:

Michael O'Neill rumours doing the rounds, mainly based off his Northern Ireland press conference today where he didn't rule out the Aberdeen job.

I had heard a few things weeks ago but was under the impression it hadn't come to anything and any interest was now over. 

But I would be delighted if there was substance to these rumours and it was him. The day Robson was sacked I tweeted two names - Jimmy Thelin & Michael O'Neill. 

Would not be the worst appointment although he has been away from club football for a while. There were plenty of rumours that he was coming in when Robson was sacked so if it is him it makes you wonder why it’s taken so long and why we had to go through the whole Warnock farce.

[tlg1903]

3 hours ago, Jute said:

Would not be the worst appointment although he has been away from club football for a while. There were plenty of rumours that he was coming in when Robson was sacked so if it is him it makes you wonder why it’s taken so long and why we had to go through the whole Warnock farce.

Yeah, it isn't underwhelming exactly but we are unlikely to see a spike in season ticket sales either.  If it is him I suspect the delay is the fixture this evening.  Friendly or not I could see why you wouldn't want to leave NI in the lurch against Scotland, that it would be to leave yo a Scottish club side would be extra salt in the wound too. 

For that to be true though it presents a conundrum which makes me think none of this is the case.  The club seemed genuinely confident they would get the appointment done at the weekend, O'Neill is unlikely to have given that impression given NI had a fixture.  

Making that announcement was pointless, they should have just kept the powder dry until the ink was on the paper. Now everyone is wondering what is going on even more and the club looks extra shambolic.... Which is actually quite impressive to manage given how shambolic we were looking prior. 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Ach, not against O'Neill per se but I don't see what makes his CV any better than someone that has actually won something with a premier league side in Scotland whether that be Callum Davidson, McInnes, Lennon or even Tommy Wright for that matter.  It depends what your agenda is regarding any of the candidates.  It is probably easier to build a case against appointing O'Neill than it would be to convince someone that he is the best man for the job.  He's done ok to a point but even his Ireland record is a pretty mixed bag (3 wins in his 10 games back so far before getting thumped 5-0 tonight) and it was not long ago he was fired by Stoke.

It is always difficult to judge someone's body of work with the tools they have at their disposal.  How would O'Neill do managing Liverpool and how would Klopp fair managing Northern Ireland, who knows?

 

[STFU_Donny]

Not against O’Neill coming in but I hope we’re not spending a fortune to release him for the NI job. 

Having said that, maybe we’re in a bit of a “beggars can’t be choosers” situation if several of our preferred candidates have rejected us. 

[RicoS321]

6 hours ago, tlg1903 said:

The club seemed genuinely confident they would get the appointment done at the weekend, O'Neill is unlikely to have given that impression given NI had a fixture.  

Making that announcement was pointless, they should have just kept the powder dry until the ink was on the paper

Did they? I thought it was just the P&J that ran with the "done by the weekend" line? Were there quotes, or named sources? 

[Kowalski]

Not the first car crash at Pittodrie this year…

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeen-aberdeenshire/6414314/crash-outside-pittodrie-stadium/

[redordead]

Could've had a week on the turf imposing new ideas by now. Opportunity missed.

[Panda]

On 25/03/2024 at 01:46, KWT15 said:

Appreciate that's how you earn your livelihood, but if this is the case, it is just as big a problem as any Board indecision/incompetence.  Anyone in the club that has sufficient clout to be that in the know, who is also providing/giving/selling info of that type to the media (or trusting others with it that are), is a HUGE issue and no amount of improvement in technical structure will change that.

It's not the club leaking anything. They have nothing to leak except bad news.

9 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Ach, not against O'Neill per se but I don't see what makes his CV any better than someone that has actually won something with a premier league side in Scotland whether that be Callum Davidson, McInnes, Lennon or even Tommy Wright for that matter. 

What is the bigger achievement?

Winning a cup in Scotland, or not only taking Northern Ireland to their first major tournament in 30 years but then taking them to the knockout stages? They qualified by topping their qualifying group where five of their opponents had significantly bigger populations and a larger player pool to pick from, losing just once, then beat Ukraine at the finals.

He's achieved more than all the names above and I include Neil Lennon whose record at clubs outwith Celtic has been poor. Lennon in his management career has never punched above his weight.

And by the way, since you compared him to Callum Davidson, O'Neill also has two league titles at two different clubs in two different countries*

 

*or the same country if you're that way inclined.

9 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

It is probably easier to build a case against appointing O'Neill than it would be to convince someone that he is the best man for the job.  He's done ok to a point but even his Ireland record is a pretty mixed bag (3 wins in his 10 games back so far before getting thumped 5-0 tonight) and it was not long ago he was fired by Stoke.

A lot to unpack there.

"He's done ok to a point" - as above, his first spell was sensational. He also took them to a play-off to get to another finals (though left before it because of Covid/Stoke).

In his second spell he's having to work with a young team. Is it not an average age of 23 in the last two games (1-1 draw with Romania and beating Scotland).

Let's not forget Northern Ireland are minnows. They have less than a 2m population, and even a large proportion of that would refuse to play for them and would instead choose the Republic if given the choice. 

As for Stoke, he actually did well there initially. He got sacked because towards the end they got into a rut that he couldn't get them out of. It certainly was no disaster. 

9 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

As much as I'd like O'Neill as manager, it's not happening unless we pay big bucks to get him. It may come to that if we continue to struggle to get someone.

[Kowalski]

This is what the club said on 11th March. 
 

https://www.afc.co.uk/2024/03/11/club-statement-football-review-update/
 

“Our aim is to appoint a First Team Manager during the upcoming international break”

[tlg1903]

14 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Did they? I thought it was just the P&J that ran with the "done by the weekend" line? Were there quotes, or named sources? 

According to Scott burns the club were hoping/expecting it to be done over the weekend which I assume is why the story got leaked. 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

6 hours ago, Panda said:

He's achieved more than all the names above and I include Neil Lennon whose record at clubs outwith Celtic has been poor. Lennon in his management career has never punched above his weight.

Yeah, as I said in my previous post it depends what your agenda is I suppose.  You can dress up the stats to suit.

I doubt many people would agree with you that O'Neill's achievement of qualifying for the Euros tops Lennon winning five league titles with Celtic but there you go.  You seem to dismiss Lennon because he had a good group of players yet make allowance for some of O'Neill's poor results because he has a young team. 

7 hours ago, Panda said:

"He's done ok to a point" - as above, his first spell was sensational. He also took them to a play-off to get to another finals (though left before it because of Covid/Stoke).

He has not been "sensational".  I don't think he has massively over achieved with Northern Ireland, but he has done well.  Laurie Sanchez beat the likes of Spain and England when he was in charge.  O'Neill qualified for the Euros by winning a group that had Romania, Hungary and Finland as the big teams.  He then played 4 games at the finals and lost 3.  He has had over 80 games in charge now and only Stoke have come calling which for me says a lot. 

As I said above, I am not against the guy but I think in this country we are far too quick to dismiss and write off others that have won trophies because they are not fashionable names.

[RicoS321]

46 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

I doubt many people would agree with you that O'Neill's achievement of qualifying for the Euros tops Lennon winning five league titles with Celtic but there you go.

I could have won five league titles with the Tims during that period. I wouldn't read anything into that achievement of Lennon's at all, I'd say that it's indicative of very little. Lennon's career should probably only be guaged by his success elsewhere, and especially when it comes to potentially managing Aberdeen. 

Edit: to add, that's not criticism of Lennon, he did the job asked of him. What I would say is that it's clear that he's not a better manager in Scottish football terms than Derek McInnes, and that should probably be our benchmark. We need to be looking at guys who might already be better than McInnes was, which O'Neill might be (I'm assuming skeptical as you), or guys who have the potential to be in the right circumstances and we get them at the right time, before anyone else does. Lennon is just a known quantity, as the others you mention are, O'Neill not so much. If the figures quoted for getting him in are true then I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

Edited March 27 by RicoS321

[Panda]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

  You seem to dismiss Lennon because he had a good group of players yet make allowance for some of O'Neill's poor results because he has a young team. 

No, you were criticising O'Neill's recent run of results, I was pointing out he has a young team and they are in a period of transition.

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

O'Neill qualified for the Euros by winning a group that had Romania, Hungary and Finland as the big teams. 

Romania, Hungary, Greece and Finland may not be seen as major nations to Scotland, but they are all significantly bigger than Northern Ireland. You were the one comparing his management record to Callum Davidson and Tommy Wright. 

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

He then played 4 games at the finals and lost 3. 

Are you serious? They lost to Germany and Poland by a single goal and beat Ukraine 2-0. Again it's Northern Ireland we're talking about here.

They lost narrowly to a Wales team that went and beat Belgium 3-1 in the next ground.

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

 

He has had over 80 games in charge now and only Stoke have come calling which for me says a lot. 

Does it? Where's all the management offers for Steve Clarke? Or Neil Lennon? 

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

As I said above, I am not against the guy but I think in this country we are far too quick to dismiss and write off others that have won trophies because they are not fashionable names.

Like who? If you mean Lennon I can think of many, many reasons and him not being a fashionable name isn't one of them.