Next manager

[OrlandoDon]

I’d honestly take strachan or Lennon, would have preferred either to glass or Goodwin, but as I mentioned on the game thread from today, I think a clean slate and a fresh start is needed. Someone with experience and some sort of success in his past, and no SPL baggage. Someone like an ange for example, but probably on a smaller scale. this includes parting ways with Robson, but still have a back room staff that includes SPL experience. There will be holes in whoever we hire, we all won’t be happy, but we’re not an English premiership team, or the old firm, and we have a limited budget for players and manager. 
in regards to timeline, I can only assume the new ceo is involved with the manager, hence he has involvement and the delay?

[Panda]

Strachan would be a horrific choice of manager.

 

[wee toon red]

Richard Gordon has apparently said that he might have news on the next Dons manager when the well game is done. That gives me the absolute fear.

[Panda]

10 minutes ago, wee toon red said:

Richard Gordon has apparently said that he might have news on the next Dons manager when the well game is done. That gives me the absolute fear.

[wee toon red]

Turned out he had absolutely nothing to reveal whatsoever.

[Jute]

Cormack has had major surgery so taking a back seat in process to select new manager. 
 

https://www.afc.co.uk/2023/02/19/dons-chairman-to-undergo-major-surgery/

 

[tlg1903]

On 18/02/2023 at 20:09, Jute said:

Agree with pretty much all of that although even at gun point I wouldn’t take Lennon. 

This

[tlg1903]

Ricardo rodriguez being linked according to the p+j.  Bit of a curve ball, Spanish coach who's been managing in Asia for the better part of the last decade.  Reasonable pedigree and this is what he did at his last job 

 

After successfully having guided Vortis to the first-ever J2 title, it was announced he will join Urawa Red Diamonds for the 2021 season.[19] At the end of his first season he was considered the most valued coach in the JLeague "for the impact on the club and the game changer of Urawa Reds" by recovering the competitive spirit of the team. At the end of the season, the was declared the best coach of the J1 League, and also he won the Emperor's Cup.[20] Weeks later, Ricardo Rodríguez further strengthened his project at the helm of Urawa Red Diamonds by winning the Japanese Super Cup against the JLeague champions, Kawasaki Frontale, and became the first Spanish coach to win the Emperor's Cup and the Japanese Super Cup.[21] At the end of the season 2022, Ricardo Rodríguez decided to call time on his successful tenure at Urawa Red Diamonds to embark on new professional challenges after leading the team to the AFC Champions League final and glory in the Emperor's Cup and the Japanese Super Cup.

Edited February 19, 2023 by tlg1903

[Panda]

Appears to have done little of note before managing in the Japanese second division, finally won promotion after a few years, then after switching clubs finished sixth and ninth in the top flight.

Can't say I'm drooling too much at that. 

 

[sancho_panza]

4 hours ago, Panda said:

Appears to have done little of note before managing in the Japanese second division, finally won promotion after a few years, then after switching clubs finished sixth and ninth in the top flight.

Can't say I'm drooling too much at that. 

 

He also made the Champions League final (which hasn't been played yet) and won Japan's main cup competition.

The J League is miles better than Scotland quality wise so I can't really understand why we should be scoffing at someone who's had moderate success there when we've been appointing the likes of Goodwin (less success in a worse league), Glass (no real experience) and Robson (no experience whatsoever).

[Panda]

3 hours ago, sancho_panza said:

He also made the Champions League final (which hasn't been played yet) and won Japan's main cup competition.

That's like getting excited about Callum Davidson because he's won two cups.

3 hours ago, sancho_panza said:

The J League is miles better than Scotland quality wise so I can't really understand why we should be scoffing at someone who's had moderate success there when we've been appointing the likes of Goodwin (less success in a worse league), Glass (no real experience) and Robson (no experience whatsoever).

The league he's managed in is irrelevant. I'm saying his record is okay at best. I'm just not as excited about him as you or the P&J are.

[Panda]

From a mate who is right into his Japanese football (and who was convinced Ange would be a success here) on Ricardo Rodriguez..

Decent manager, not exciting. He'll have an early impact, then it fades away.

[sancho_panza]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

That's like getting excited about Callum Davidson because he's won two cups.

If you want to compare getting to the final of (and potentially winning) one of the biggest club football tournaments in the world to beating Livingston and Hibs then sure.

1 hour ago, Panda said:

That's like getting excited about Callum Davidson because he's won two cups.

The league he's managed in is irrelevant. I'm saying his record is okay at best. I'm just not as excited about him as you or the P&J are.

The league he's managed in is hardly irrelevant. If he'd managed a side to sixth in the Premier League and won the FA Cup then we'd all be excited. Sixth in the Cymru Premier less so.

The reality is the J League is a really good standard and getting a manager who'd done better than this to come to Aberdeen is pretty delusional - Ange had won the title there and wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole before he went to Celtic.

[Slim]

I won’t claim to have any kind of idea about the standard of the J League or the stature of negotiating the eastern side of the AFC Champions League draw but I would assume the standard is being somewhat overstated if the striker for the team in question is Alex Schalk of Ross County “fame”.

[Panda]

1 hour ago, sancho_panza said:

If you want to compare getting to the final of (and potentially winning) one of the biggest club football tournaments in the world 

That's exaggerating it just a touch.

1 hour ago, sancho_panza said:

The league he's managed in is hardly irrelevant. If he'd managed a side to sixth in the Premier League and won the FA Cup then we'd all be excited. Sixth in the Cymru Premier less so.

I beg to differ. Depends who the club is.

Take Sheffield United to sixth - that's very good. Take Liverpool to sixth - not so much.

Looking at the club's previous finishes they were second and third consistently five years before he arrived, appeared to fall into a rut, and he made minimal improvements on their league position. That would concern me. Although granted, he appears to have had a good cup record.

Now, I'm not an expert on how he did or any issues he may have had to deal with. I'm not even saying I'm against his arrival. I'm just saying it's not a record that stands out to me as particular impressive. I think many are getting caught up in him being Spanish and managing abroad.

 

1 hour ago, sancho_panza said:

The reality is the J League is a really good standard and getting a manager who'd done better than this to come to Aberdeen is pretty delusional - Ange had won the title there and wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole before he went to Celtic.

So you don't think it's possible to get a manager with a better record than sixth and ninth in the last two years?

 

 

 

[tlg1903]

Ultimately this is still just paper talk.  Given burrows still isn't even in the door yet and colgate is on a sick note we are unlikely to see any movement on a new manager until we are a week into March at the earliest.  

[sancho_panza]

13 minutes ago, Panda said:

That's exaggerating it just a touch.

It's the biggest club competition in Asia and you're comparing it to St Johnstone winning a League Cup final against Livingston. 

16 minutes ago, Panda said:

Now, I'm not an expert on how he did or any issues he may have had to deal with. I'm not even saying I'm against his arrival. I'm just saying it's not a record that stands out to me as particular impressive. I think many are getting caught up in him being Spanish and managing abroad.

If he'd managed anywhere else I wouldn't have a clue about him to be honest but I used to live in Osaka and went to J League games fairly regularly. I don't follow it much now but I know the standard is substantially better than what people think it is. Your posts basically give the impression you think we should only be looking at managers who have had major success there like Ange. The reality is that managers like that simply wouldn't be interested in coming here.

His record is also better than you're portraying it as. He got promoted with Tokushima Vortis, who aren't a big side and have mainly been in the lower leagues. With Urawa Reds, they were 10th the year before he arrived. They finished 6th in his first season (17 points better off) and won the main cup competition (he also won manager of the year). The following year they went into the Champions League and made the final but their league form went back to about where it was before he arrived. That's far more good than bad.

If there's a better realistic candidate then I'm all ears but all the other candidates we seem to be getting linked with are either just blind punts (Robson, etc.), past it (Strachan, Lambert, Lennon), or not actually interested in the first place (Wilder, etc.)

[Panda]

30 minutes ago, sancho_panza said:

It's the biggest club competition in Asia and you're comparing it to St Johnstone winning a League Cup final against Livingston. 

I don't get how people struggle to comprehend a cup competition is more than just a final.

And he actually won both cups that season.

All that aside, it being the biggest competition in Asia doesn't mean what you originally said is true - ie "it's one of the biggest competitions in the world".

In terms of attendances, maybe it is. It's not in terms of standard.

 

30 minutes ago, sancho_panza said:

If he'd managed anywhere else I wouldn't have a clue about him to be honest

 

30 minutes ago, sancho_panza said:

 

 Your posts basically give the impression you think we should only be looking at managers who have had major success there like Ange.

I have said no such thing.

All I've said is based on his record it doesn't excite me, and I disagree with your suggestion that someone with his record is the best we could aim for. 

30 minutes ago, sancho_panza said:

 

If there's a better realistic candidate then I'm all ears but all the other candidates we seem to be getting linked with are either just blind punts (Robson, etc.), past it (Strachan, Lambert, Lennon), or not actually interested in the first place (Wilder, etc.)

The media have linked us with them, doesn't mean any of them are on the shortlist.

Rodriguez is every bit a blind punt as Robson is to be honest. 

[sancho_panza]

50 minutes ago, Panda said:

I don't get how people struggle to comprehend a cup competition is more than just a final.

And he actually won both cups that season.

Putting St Johnstone's thrilling 2020-21 season to one side, the basic point you were trying to make is that it's somehow not particularly important that Rodriguez made the final of the Asian Champions League (which they may yet win) and won two domestic trophies in the two seasons he was at Urawa Reds by making a silly comparison with Callum Davidson.

Of course those results matter and you didn't mention them in your first comment so I did. Overall, his record in Japan across six years is pretty good - he got a small side promoted, improved Urawa Reds in his first season by 17 points, won two trophies with them, made the final of Asia's biggest club competition, won manager of the year in his first season, and even in his second season they weren't any worse off than before he arrived. It's not Jose Mourinho circa 2004 but it's a better recent track record than practically everyone else we're being linked with. If there is somebody with a better record that gets linked to us then I'll happily back them instead.

50 minutes ago, Panda said:

Rodriguez is every bit a blind punt as Robson is to be honest. 

Makes complete sense, the guy who's managed over 400 games is just as much of a blind punt as the guy who's managed 4 games in his career but happens to be Scottish.

Edited February 20, 2023 by sancho_panza

[Panda]

2 hours ago, sancho_panza said:

Putting St Johnstone's thrilling 2020-21 season to one side, the basic point you were trying to make is that it's somehow not particularly important that Rodriguez made the final of the Asian Champions League (which they may yet win) and won two domestic trophies in the two seasons he was at Urawa Reds by making a silly comparison with Callum Davidson.

You're completely missing the point. I haven't said he's a bad manager (I don't know, I don't follow Japanese football and hadn't heard of the guy until last night).

I, as an outsider to Japanese football, simply am not excited by his record in Japan. You're defending him by pointing out he's won two cups. So did Callum Davidson. It's not a silly comparison. If a Japanese club were linked with Davidson, a fan could likely be looking at Davidson's record, see that he won two trophies at a club that had only ever won one in their history, and be pretty impressed. Others might point out he hasn't got them to the top six.

Rodríguez's record - to me - is okay. That's about it.

2 hours ago, sancho_panza said:

Makes complete sense, the guy who's managed over 400 games is just as much of a blind punt as the guy who's managed 4 games in his career but happens to be Scottish.

Hold on. Before he got to Japan he had averaged 29 games in charge at every club he had been at. 

By all accounts looking at his record he was a bit of a journeyman, had some (let's be honest here) moderate success in Japan, and now his record looks alright.

He absolutely is a punt. Will likely know very little about Scottish football never mind Aberdeen, the problems they have and what needs to be done. Can he adapt his style to Scottish football? Can he adapt to the culture? (just because he did in Japan doesn't mean he can here).

Robson may not have management experience but he knows the club and Scottish football inside out. Yes, he would be a punt too because he doesn't have a managerial record to speak of, but when weighing both men up he's no more of a punt for me than Rodríguez.

Now, maybe the plan (if he is under serious consideration) is to have Robson as his assistant, and Agnew as first team coach. You know what, I wouldn't be against that. In fact I'd take it every day of the week over Strachan, Lennon or Dave Cormack's twin brother rocking up wearing a suspicious wig and moustache.

But just because I don't agree he's absolutely the best we can get also doesn't mean I'm expecting us to go get Ange.

 

And changing topic - while we're all talking up Ange as the second coming. Here's a grenade I threw into a chat with a pile of Celtic fans.

If Ange had gone to Rangers instead of Celtic, and had to deal with their budget and inherited their squad. And, let's say Brendan Rodgers was still Celtic manager.

Who would win the league?

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

And changing topic - while we're all talking up Ange as the second coming. Here's a grenade I threw into a chat with a pile of Celtic fans.

If Ange had gone to Rangers instead of Celtic, and had to deal with their budget and inherited their squad. And, let's say Brendan Rodgers was still Celtic manager.

Who would win the league?

And the answer to that question is:

c) who gives a fuck.

[Panda]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

And the answer to that question is:

c) who gives a fuck.

Quite. I guess.

But still an interesting debate if you like that sort of thing.

[manc_don]

https://medium.com/@martincrawfordsbhs/from-the-diamonds-to-the-dandies-ricardo-rodriguez-could-be-pittodries-answer-to-pep-e9f351189592
 

 

Quote

 

From the Diamonds to the Dandies: Ricardo Rodriguez could be Pittodrie’s answer to Pep

Should he swap Urawa Reds for the Reds of Aberdeen, the Asian Champions League finalist will be hoping to have his Dons side more resembling of La Roja.

 

A rarity which is becoming less rare among managers in the modern game is the absence of a notable playing career – or sometimes, any senior playing experience at all.

At last, in a shift of decision-making attitude, it is being viewed increasingly as a pro as opposed to a con. Instead of being dismissed as footballing muggles, candidates are being credited for climbing the ladder by building a CV which is based purely on coaching ability and merit.

In Scotland, Rangers have just replaced Giovanni Van Bronckhorst, a Champions League winning player at age 30, with Michael Beale – who at the equivalent age was working with youth players at Chelsea, halfway through his journey towards senior management.

And following the sacking of Jim Goodwin, Aberdeen now look to have set their sights on a non-playing trailblazer of their own – but one with a list of previous employers much more comparable to Celtic boss Ange Postecoglou than that of Beale.

Hailing from Oviedo, Spain, self-proclaimed Guardiola and Bielsa fanatic Ricardo Rodriguez started in several key roles at Girona and Malaga in his homeland. After moving to London in 2010 to learn the language and football culture in England, Frank Rijkaard gave him his first experience in Asia.

Rodriguez joined the Dutch icon with Saudi Arabia, where he worked until 2013. Keen to continue working with English-speaking interpreters, spells at several Thai clubs over the next few years would earn him the opportunity to move to manage in Japan in 2016.

“In Japan, I have been fortunate to change the way my teams play the game,” he told The Coaches’ Voice last year. In what was his first long-term spell at any club, Rodriguez led Tokushima Vortis to their first ever promotion to the J-League at the end of a historic 2020 season.

This brought him an offer from one of the nation’s biggest clubs, Urawa Red Diamonds – a chance he did not squander. Rodriguez led the Reds to Japanese FA Cup glory in his first season, picking up J-League Manager of the Year at the end of the campaign.

Having now made the decision to leave Japan despite making April’s AFC Champions League final, the 48-year-old’s fantastic résumé will undoubtedly have hugely impressed Dons chiefs as they mull over potential candidates – but behind the success is a meaningful philosophy.

“I want people who go to the stadium to enjoy watching the team,” he explained to the J-Talk podcast in 2020. “And what way do people enjoy? Attacking. Watching the team attacking, creating chances.”

It was a philosophy which commanded an incredible degree of respect in Japan, where Rodriguez is held in extremely high regard by supporters of both Vortis and Urawa Reds. This is not only down to the success that he attained, but equally too his cherished brand of entertaining football.

Similarly to UK examples such as Bielsa at Leeds, Potter at Brighton and Rodgers at Swansea, Ricardo proved that whilst positive results have a positive impact, doing it with a courageous style of football has a longer-lasting effect with clubs and supporters alike.

The name which Rodriguez never fails to cite when discussing his coaching influences is that of Pep Guardiola, something which is not a surprise upon observing the unmistakeably Barça-inspired shape and playing style of his teams in Asia.

The influence of Pep’s positional play has been profound on modern football. Players throughout the globe are increasingly being challenged to play from the back, build up through patient possession and counter-press intensely – typically in a wide, coordinated 4–3–3.

For various reasons, the trend hasn’t quite touched Scotland’s game the way it has in other nations. But that won’t deter Rodriguez – it will drive him.

“I consider myself more than a coach,” he recently told Sky Sports. “I am someone who can develop a club. I like to create an attacking football identity, select the right players for the football that we want and then work to strengthen all areas of the club.”

The decision to leave Urawa Reds was fuelled purely by ambition to make an impact in Britain. An admirer of the English game, Rodriguez has spent his recent months visiting clubs south of the border with a view to soon testing his football at a new club.

With exciting resources and future facilities on offer at the Dons, the move would be one of tremendous potential. Following an extended period of underachievement, a clear footballing vision on and off the pitch could see Ricardo bring the club long-awaited meaningful progress.

Whilst not every manager boasts the proven success of Rodriguez, no manager has a magic wand. Instating an individual with new and specific ideas, time and patience would be crucial in order to allow the Reds’ reasonably young squad to adapt to a totally different way of playing the game.

But Aberdeen need a coach who backs up their ambition tactically; ordinary football brings ordinary results. An appointment like Rodriguez would be a clear signal of intent to build an Aberdeen which dominates, excites and – above all – wins.

 

 

 

[RicoS321]

Fuck it, just get the Japanese Spaniard in for the Livi game.

[OrlandoDon]

Interesting article. Well written to promote the guy. Honestly, every hire needs timing and luck and we aren’t going to get pep or Jurgen, plus he’s more experienced than glass or goodwin. Also sounds like he’s older and mature enough to develop a club and not just a first team coach. Plus sounds like he’s eager to come to britain. Why not us as the next step? Is there any evidence that we’ve spoken to him or are actually considering him??