Next manager

[Panda]

8 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

Absolute silence on the managerial front? Nobody spotted house shopping or at the airport? Haven’t heard John Hughes mentioned in a few days either. Waiting impatiently…

You're not the only one.

[tlg1903]

On 09/03/2023 at 18:36, RicoS321 said:

If Robson is being given until summer, then he needs to be given the job permanently. Take another few weeks to see how it goes if necessary. If we're not considering Robson then we need to move now before he establishes a winning side. The longer he's allowed to settle in with the side and the fans, the harder it will be for the new guy. We've got the small matter of eight new players to replace the loanees too. That needs some movement on the precontract front if possible. It certainly doesn't need a new guy rocking up in June.

I don't agree with that 2bh, why must he get it permanently?  I appreciate in for a penny in for a pound as much as the next man but I don't see why appointing till the end of the season isn't a reasonable proposition.  I will concede I'm not sure there is a right answer to this though, there's ups and downs to all options in other words.  One thing I will add that hasn't been mentioned is that if we were to get 3rd place you're looking at a higher quality of candidate for the position in the summer.   Obviously that's a big if but I fancy us to beat hearts on Saturday 2bh.  

I appreciate your point about squad building for the next season but I don't think we have the luxury of giving that too much consideration at the moment.  The fact we are still in with a sniff for 3rd is bonkers but that's just Scottish football in general i suppose.  Regardless though that's the prize we should be keeping our eyes on and right now i think Robson is our best chance of getting it.  Appointing till the end of the season with an assurance he will be a serious  contender if he gets a euro place  seems a perfectly reasonable proposition to me.

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, tlg1903 said:

I don't agree with that 2bh, why must he get it permanently?  I appreciate in for a penny in for a pound as much as the next man but I don't see why appointing till the end of the season isn't a reasonable proposition.  I will concede I'm not sure there is a right answer to this though, there's ups and downs to all options in other words.  One thing I will add that hasn't been mentioned is that if we were to get 3rd place you're looking at a higher quality of candidate for the position in the summer.   Obviously that's a big if but I fancy us to beat hearts on Saturday 2bh.  

I appreciate your point about squad building for the next season but I don't think we have the luxury of giving that too much consideration at the moment.  The fact we are still in with a sniff for 3rd is bonkers but that's just Scottish football in general i suppose.  Regardless though that's the prize we should be keeping our eyes on and right now i think Robson is our best chance of getting it.  Appointing till the end of the season with an assurance he will be a serious  contender if he gets a euro place  seems a perfectly reasonable proposition to me.

The reasoning is of he is good enough to get third then he's good enough for a longer stint. If he's not then we need to get our arse in gear for a rebuild including about ten players leaving (and that's assuming dross like Richardson, Morris, Roberts (probably) and Myslovič (probably) aren't also punted). If he's allowed to put in a good challenge to make third and gets close then the new guy will be on a hiding to nothing, with constant chat about us should have having kept Robson (we're maybe already too late in that regard, but I don't think so). Now is the ideal time to join the Dons, with a handful of decent players and two recent departures that suggest both chairman and fans will exercise a bit of patience. A massive summer rebuild with no opportunity to see the team in competitive action prior to that doesn't have nearly the same appeal in my opinion. Qualifying for Europe would likely only make things worse.

[redordead]

Paddy Vieira ? Don't get much bigger names. Doesn't need the money. Tries to play football.

[RicoS321]

17 minutes ago, redordead said:

Paddy Vieira ? Don't get much bigger names. Doesn't need the money. Tries to play football.

Surely we want someone who succeeds in playing football?

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

2 hours ago, redordead said:

Paddy Vieira ? Don't get much bigger names. Doesn't need the money. Tries to play football.

Why would we want someone who has just been sacked after not managing a win in 12 games?

 

[redordead]

3 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Why would we want someone who has just been sacked after not managing a win in 12 games?

 

He finished 12th in the EPL last season with palace. Improved NY each season and would attract players.

He'd also not be coming up against the world's best managers every week.

Not that he'll be short of more lucrative offers.

 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

13 minutes ago, redordead said:

He finished 12th in the EPL last season with palace. Improved NY each season 

Tam Courts got Kelty promoted and took Dundee United to fourth last season, knows the Scottish game and is available, affordable and would probably take the job. Is Vieira really any better a manager? 

[Slim]

I think Robson is at the stage now where we have to give him a chance over a longer term, including the chance to recover from any inevitable future dip in form. 
 

Anyone else we bring in, unless they have us right up there from the get go, is always going to be unfavourably compared to Robson at every minor set back. 
 

Vital we sign Shinnie on a permanent deal at the same time though.

[Panda]

Club need to make a decision next week. Either new manager or Robson in charge at least until the split. It's not fair on him and also means we're not doing any forward planning ahead of next season.

Four wins out of six, and not just scrappy wins either, we blew Hearts away in the first half today and could have had much more than three.

For me, unless a name emerges that makes me change my mind, I don't think you can make the case for someone else now unless they have an exceptional CV.

For example, how could you make the case for Ricky Rodriguez based on him having an attacking philosophy and a questionable league record with Urawa - Robson has six goals in the last two, coupled with no goals conceded from open play in our last three. Is that not what we're looking for from a new manager? 

Come on Cormack/Burrows. Let's make the Robson & Agnew era permanent.

[RicoS321]

15 minutes ago, Panda said:

Club need to make a decision next week. Either new manager or Robson in charge at least until the split. It's not fair on him and also means we're not doing any forward planning ahead of next season.

Four wins out of six, and not just scrappy wins either, we blew Hearts away in the first half today and could have had much more than three.

For me, unless a name emerges that makes me change my mind, I don't think you can make the case for someone else now unless they have an exceptional CV.

For example, how could you make the case for Ricky Rodriguez based on him having an attacking philosophy and a questionable league record with Urawa - Robson has six goals in the last two, coupled with no goals conceded from open play in our last three. Is that not what we're looking for from a new manager? 

Come on Cormack/Burrows. Let's make the Robson & Agnew era permanent.

The case for it not being Robson is the club strategy. We saw with Neilson today, a manager like Goodwin who is trying the "we're a passing team, we pass out from the back" pish that appears to be being forced on managers because of its apparent entertainment value. This has been rightly canned by Robson, but it was the reason we got rid of McInnes and we're back to where we started in that regard. If entertainment has to come in some form of weird passing mantra that doesn't just include winning games, then we need someone with experience of doing that. I'd happily give it to Robson, and fuck the strategy.

[OrlandoDon]

I still see Robson as a short term fix guy, win games now and do whatever it takes. You know the players, do what it takes. That’s hard to implement long term. He has impressed me too but being a full time manager with short and long term goals is different. Experience matters. Repeating myself but we failed with the last two guys being inexperienced, we won’t do that again. I just don’t see it.

[KGB]

31 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

I still see Robson as a short term fix guy, win games now and do whatever it takes. You know the players, do what it takes. That’s hard to implement long term. He has impressed me too but being a full time manager with short and long term goals is different. Experience matters. Repeating myself but we failed with the last two guys being inexperienced, we won’t do that again. I just don’t see it.

Goodwin has been a manager since 2016 so surely cannot be labelled as inexperienced. Out of his depth or tactically inept yes but not inexperienced. I think that appointing anyone is a bit of a crap shoot tbh as we can’t afford someone who can guarantee success and in fact that person probably doesn’t exist in our budget range. If Robson’s doing well and putting points on the board then I think we should stick with him for now as a vastly more experienced manager in Goodwin couldn’t do that. 

[OrlandoDon]

5 minutes ago, KGB said:

Goodwin has been a manager since 2016 so surely cannot be labelled as inexperienced. Out of his depth or tactically inept yes but not inexperienced. I think that appointing anyone is a bit of a crap shoot tbh as we can’t afford someone who can guarantee success and in fact that person probably doesn’t exist in our budget range. If Robson’s doing well and putting points on the board then I think we should stick with him for now as a vastly more experienced manager in Goodwin couldn’t do that. 

Goodwin was totally inexperienced, especially at our level. Never coached at a level Aberdeen expect, and never reached the standards a club like ours expects.  Not well travelled or had managerial experience outside of Scotland. Not worldly. Goodwin has never been at a club where winning trophies and advancing in Europe is the expectation (not simply qualifying.) we need a guy who has had similar experiences and pressures. Someone who has to coach and adjust coaching to win big games, make decisions to advance in cups, and coach during games to have significant impact. While having the pressures of a big club. 
Ok, he played in england and that’s experience, but not coaching experience. Managing a part time club like alloa has very different demands and expectations, at st mirren it’s survival, hopefully top 6, maybe latter stages of a cup, maybe even a final, but that’s punching above their weight. Being at aberdeen was a big step up for him. I’d like someone who has experiences similar demands and similar pressures. Someone who has won something and experienced significant pressures to win. While I’m not saying I want the likes of strachan, McGhee, Lennon, Paul lambert, jack Ross etc, all have achieved more and have greater experience than goodwin and a ‘safer’ hire.

im not saying goodwin is a bad manager. Maybe he’s better than Robson, maybe worse. But I think given the business that is football today, the millions involved, the demands of a big club, the pressures of winning, especially at a club who needs to build or renovate a stadium, money matters big time. Selecting the right manager has a big element of luck, but experience really matters IMHO.

[Slim]

There’s different types of experience though.

Glass’s inexperience led to him thinking he could bring the like of Gurr and Gallagher over from the States and tiki taka his way to the Super Bowl.

Goodwin’s inexperience meant he had no idea how to carry himself and behave at a club of our stature which led to him alienating just about everybody and focusing more on being perfectly groomed and klarna’d up to his bleached teeth on hugoboss.com

Robson has already shown he knows the sort of player you need to grind out results with your backs to the wall, he knows the club inside out, he’s even aware of his own inexperience (hence Agnew). He does however, have experience of being part of a championship team, playing at the highest level and shitehousing his way to 3 points when plan A isn’t working. 
 

Ultimately we have invested years worth of time and resources into developing him into a coach that could one day become head coach. It’s difficult to say if he’s at that stage yet but he’s passed every challenge that’s been thrown his way and if we’re going to be the sort of progressive club that attracts up and coming coaches to work at all levels, we really need to give him the chance to succeed (or fail) because there’s no other stand out candidate out there that has any kind of track record of prolonged success or the coveted level of experience.

[OrlandoDon]

I‘m not denying Robson hasn’t done a bad job. But until a few weeks ago he coached our u18s. He’s ‘managed’ maybe a dozen games in two stints here, in a position that has little to lose as he’s helping the club out as interim. You could argue Agnew was brought in to help stablize a team that were going bad fast and could get sucked into a relegation battle. I wouldn’t say Agnew was brought in because Robson saw his own inexperience.This is robson’s only first team coaching/managing experience at any club. That’s a huge risk - we failed badly with glass, and failed again with goodwin. Third time a charm?? I’d compare it to going to college. You learn the theory, maybe some placement or on job experience, graduate, that start a real gig. Do you jump from a new graduate to a top job or do you build your way up? Just don’t see cormack going for inexperience a third time. Maybe not a great comparison, but perhaps Robson needs to find his forest green like Duncan Ferguson?? 

Edited March 18, 2023 by OrlandoDon

[Slim]

Perhaps we’re his Forest Green? And even if you do send him off to manage a Cove Rangers or similar and he’s a massive success, you’re still going to say he’s lacking experience at the top level. The only way you ever find out is by giving him a go. It’s no bigger gamble than giving a contract to a Stephen Robinson type, so may as well anoint the Ginger Prince of Pittodrie.

[Kowalski]

I would just give Robson the job. Playing some decent stuff and he’s sorted out the defence. 

[baggy89]

On 10/03/2023 at 17:31, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Where is everyone getting this idea from that Agnew is a good coach? Of late he has been Steve Bruce’s right hand man, who has been shite from Villa, thru Sheff Wed, Newcastle and West Brom.

I was basing it on that he’d been employed by good sides, was obviously respected by Robson enough to choose/not veto his appointment, and more importantly that he seems to be someone Robson can discuss tactical alterations with during a game that have been improving performances through games. I think we can all agree that results have been improving with him coaching the players on the training field too. 

[baggy89]

41 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

I‘m not denying Robson hasn’t done a bad job. But until a few weeks ago he coached our u18s. He’s ‘managed’ maybe a dozen games in two stints here, in a position that has little to lose as he’s helping the club out as interim. You could argue Agnew was brought in to help stablize a team that were going bad fast and could get sucked into a relegation battle. I wouldn’t say Agnew was brought in because Robson saw his own inexperience.This is robson’s only first team coaching/managing experience at any club. That’s a huge risk - we failed badly with glass, and failed again with goodwin. Third time a charm?? I’d compare it to going to college. You learn the theory, maybe some placement or on job experience, graduate, that start a real gig. Do you jump from a new graduate to a top job or do you build your way up? Just don’t see cormack going for inexperience a third time. Maybe not a great comparison, but perhaps Robson needs to find his forest green like Duncan Ferguson?? 

Fit? Nae eating meat, getting relegated, having to listen to Dale Vince tell you what a top bloke he is while trying to work out what sort of time you’d serve for heeding and booting him all the way back to Stroud? 

[OrlandoDon]

36 minutes ago, Slim said:

Perhaps we’re his Forest Green? And even if you do send him off to manage a Cove Rangers or similar and he’s a massive success, you’re still going to say he’s lacking experience at the top level. The only way you ever find out is by giving him a go. It’s no bigger gamble than giving a contract to a Stephen Robinson type, so may as well anoint the Ginger Prince of Pittodrie.

We have to do what’s best for the club, not Robson. While he may see us as his forest green (unlikely), pretty sure the club compares themselves more to a Scottish Everton. Yes we can give him a shot and hope for the best, giving him a go as you say, but we tried that with glass, and then goodwin. Every hire is a gamble, no manager guarantees success. But a manager with a background that includes time in management, success, winning, trophies etc is less of a gamble than a guy who has never had a full time managers gig before. 

[Slim]

Fair point, so let’s appoint the manager with experience, success, winning, trophies, etc. Does he have a name?

[Panda]

Experience isn't just gained by managing. And just how "inexperienced" is Robson?

He's played at a high level.

He's played under many managers and will have taken many things in.

Played under pressure at big clubs and Scotland.

Has played for Aberdeen. Has coached at Aberdeen. Knows the club and area inside out. Has worked with McInnes, Glass and Goodwin and saw up close what was working and what wasn't, and likely won't repeat the same mistakes.

He has an experienced assistant alongside him.

He's been in interim charge now for several weeks and has shown he can handle it.

If he's not ready to be a manager now then he never will be. Everyone's first club doesn't necessarily have to be a small club. Mikel Arteta is doing okay in his first job.

[manc_don]

8 hours ago, Panda said:

Experience isn't just gained by managing. And just how "inexperienced" is Robson?

He's played at a high level.

He's played under many managers and will have taken many things in.

Played under pressure at big clubs and Scotland.

Has played for Aberdeen. Has coached at Aberdeen. Knows the club and area inside out. Has worked with McInnes, Glass and Goodwin and saw up close what was working and what wasn't, and likely won't repeat the same mistakes.

He has an experienced assistant alongside him.

He's been in interim charge now for several weeks and has shown he can handle it.

If he's not ready to be a manager now then he never will be. Everyone's first club doesn't necessarily have to be a small club. Mikel Arteta is doing okay in his first job.

I’ve been pretty much having similar thoughts the last few days and fuck it, you’ve just convinced me. If he continues to improve the team the way he’s doing, he’s more than earned it.

[Reekie_Red]

On 19/03/2023 at 12:02, Panda said:

Everone's first club doesn't necessarily have to be a small club. Mikel Arteta is doing okay in his first job.

He was hit & miss for a while at Arsenal. He started last season with back to back losses, and they failed to gain entry into any European competition under him for the first time in something like 25 years. But the board stuck with him, and now they're sitting pretty at the top of the EPL.

Different horses for different courses, you could probably compare Arteta's playing career with Robson's - a lot of challenges, a lot of success, had to endure time at the bigot-brothers, and ended up managing the last team he'd played for.