Make or break / Dons vs Staggies

[LA-Don]

2 hours ago, Panda said:

Of course it's the same players, he hasn't had a transfer window yet.

Watkins surely isn't fit enough to play 90 minutes yet.

lastly, haven’t seen a single thing that suggests goodwin is an upgrade on glass. Same players and same shit. Certainly hope he gets the summer right.

 

That's my point, it is the same players. Shouldn't a new coach get more out of the existing group, change tactics, blood new guys etc.? Shouldn't we see more effort from players trying to impress a new boss? Or is he just bringing more of the same and the same result. I see no difference to Glass, hence summer and the recruitment process will be interesting.

 

 

[Panda]

6 hours ago, LA-Don said:

lastly, haven’t seen a single thing that suggests goodwin is an upgrade on glass. Same players and same shit. Certainly hope he gets the summer right.

 

That's my point, it is the same players. Shouldn't a new coach get more out of the existing group, change tactics, blood new guys etc.? Shouldn't we see more effort from players trying to impress a new boss? Or is he just bringing more of the same and the same result. I see no difference to Glass, hence summer and the recruitment process will be interesting.

 

 

He has changed tactics though.

We're no longer playing McCrorie in defence and trying to play it out from the back.

We're a lot more direct going forward.

We're no longer building the team around a 36-year-old Scott Brown.

And, Saturday apart because he lacked options and Ramsay wasn't quite fit, Ojo hasn't really been in the team so we've been playing with 11 players instead of 10.

You're saying blood new guys - to be fair, he's showing a lot of faith in Connor Barron. Add in Ramsay, Mackenzie and Vicente and that's four young players. We had big games to try and get into the top six, the time to blood more youngsters is probably now in these five dead rubbers (no, we're not going to get relegated, everyone wise up).

I think to say performances haven't changed since Glass is more a reflection on the players. I think just six to seven of our current team will be first choice next season - Ramsay, Mackenzie, Hayes, McCrorie, Barron, Watkins, Vicente. Maybe Bates as potentially there's still a player there. I'd like to think he'll keep Ramirez and maybe a move won't materialise.

 

[wee toon red]

10 hours ago, Panda said:

He has changed tactics though.

We're no longer playing McCrorie in defence and trying to play it out from the back.

We're a lot more direct going forward.

We're no longer building the team around a 36-year-old Scott Brown.

And, Saturday apart because he lacked options and Ramsay wasn't quite fit, Ojo hasn't really been in the team so we've been playing with 11 players instead of 10.

You're saying blood new guys - to be fair, he's showing a lot of faith in Connor Barron. Add in Ramsay, Mackenzie and Vicente and that's four young players. We had big games to try and get into the top six, the time to blood more youngsters is probably now in these five dead rubbers (no, we're not going to get relegated, everyone wise up).

I think to say performances haven't changed since Glass is more a reflection on the players. I think just six to seven of our current team will be first choice next season - Ramsay, Mackenzie, Hayes, McCrorie, Barron, Watkins, Vicente. Maybe Bates as potentially there's still a player there. I'd like to think he'll keep Ramirez and maybe a move won't materialise.

 

So worse football, same results, still no use. As said by LA-Don, shouldn’t an “upgraded” coach get more out of the same squad? Especially under the director of football and head of recruitment model, where the coach is only really being asked to coach and organise the team.

The failings this season are down to poor recruitment and poor coaching/management. We’ve changed the latter and have every right to expect better performances. Otherwise we’d have been as well keeping glass, unless someone comes out and either changes the recruitment model or tells us it’s been scrapped and we’re back to having one man in charge.

I’ve said before, none of this stuff is indicative of a club that has one single clue about what it’s doing.

[RicoS321]

2 hours ago, wee toon red said:

So worse football, same results, still no use. As said by LA-Don, shouldn’t an “upgraded” coach get more out of the same squad? Especially under the director of football and head of recruitment model, where the coach is only really being asked to coach and organise the team.

The failings this season are down to poor recruitment and poor coaching/management. We’ve changed the latter and have every right to expect better performances. Otherwise we’d have been as well keeping glass, unless someone comes out and either changes the recruitment model or tells us it’s been scrapped and we’re back to having one man in charge.

I’ve said before, none of this stuff is indicative of a club that has one single clue about what it’s doing.

I don't think you have every right to expect better performances at this stage. Whilst you often get a new manager bounce, it isn't always the case and usually it has no bearing on managerial ability (if anything, it can hide the reality of a poor manager). That we didn't get a new manager bounce isn't really indicative of anything other than a poor quality squad that lacks balance. When you saw the catastrophe on the bench at the weekend, it illustrates the dilemma for Goodwin. 

I agree entirely with the rest though, the club is a shambles right now and it's not going to be a quick fix. We're going to have to be extremely patient next season. We might manage to put a good run of games together, but we're never going to have the quality of squad to get to third unless we get very lucky with injuries, or get 6-7 successful signings.

[LA-Don]

If Goodwin is a better coach/manager than Glass, shouldn't we expect better with the same players? Much like we expect better players to play better, shouldn't we expect improved performance from the same players due to better coaching/management? He should be smarter, improved tactics, a better motivator, and be inspiring the same group to perform better and want to be here beyond the summer? If not, why change the manager? Why not just get Glass new players in the summer?

I find it hard to believe we have an entire squad who has given up on the season and Goodwin's hands are to an extent tied. Surely many/most would love to stay at Aberdeen beyond the summer? It is still an appealing club.

[RicoS321]

22 minutes ago, LA-Don said:

If Goodwin is a better coach/manager than Glass, shouldn't we expect better with the same players? Much like we expect better players to play better, shouldn't we expect improved performance from the same players due to better coaching/management? He should be smarter, improved tactics, a better motivator, and be inspiring the same group to perform better and want to be here beyond the summer? If not, why change the manager? Why not just get Glass new players in the summer?

I find it hard to believe we have an entire squad who has given up on the season and Goodwin's hands are to an extent tied. Surely many/most would love to stay at Aberdeen beyond the summer? It is still an appealing club.

Yes, we should expect better, just not immediately. Just as we wouldn't have expected better from Glass when he took over. There were several ominous signs with Glass when he first started, but it would have been ridiculous to expect anything from him before the summer, and Goodwin is the same (including the ominous signs). At the very least we shouldn't expect consistency, which we haven't got.

[Panda]

Does everyone remember when Ange Postecoglou was being written off as a dud and the Celtic fans wanted him out? That was after a transfer window, a pre-season, and 17 games under his belt.

Win on Sunday and he'll be odds on to deliver a domestic treble.

But yeh let's give up on Goodwin after seven games. 

[OrlandoDon]

36 minutes ago, Panda said:

Does everyone remember when Ange Postecoglou was being written off as a dud and the Celtic fans wanted him out? That was after a transfer window, a pre-season, and 17 games under his belt.

Win on Sunday and he'll be odds on to deliver a domestic treble.

But yeh let's give up on Goodwin after seven games. 

Who is giving up on goodwin?

[Panda]

2 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

Who is giving up on goodwin?

Unless I'm mistaken, you & wee toon red appear to have given him the red card already.

[LA-Don]

34 minutes ago, Panda said:

Unless I'm mistaken, you & wee toon red appear to have given him the red card already.

Can we not doubt and ask questions? Or are we only allowed to make pro Goodwin comments? He needs a summer at least to assemble his own guys/squad and then we'll get a more realistic sense of what he's about. We'll learn a lot about him this summer and into next season but so far I haven't seen anything that suggests he's an upgrade on Glass. 1 win 3 draw and 3 losses when we had a European spot to play for and players had their livelihoods to play for, and he had a first impression to create. Doesn't mean he's written off but I feel my comments are valid, no? 

[OxfordDon]

2 hours ago, LA-Don said:

Q. Can we not doubt and ask questions? Or are we only allowed to make pro Goodwin comments?

A. He needs a summer at least to assemble his own guys/squad and then we'll get a more realistic sense of what he's about.

Fify

[Panda]

6 hours ago, LA-Don said:

Can we not doubt and ask questions? Or are we only allowed to make pro Goodwin comments? He needs a summer at least to assemble his own guys/squad and then we'll get a more realistic sense of what he's about. We'll learn a lot about him this summer and into next season but so far I haven't seen anything that suggests he's an upgrade on Glass. 1 win 3 draw and 3 losses when we had a European spot to play for and players had their livelihoods to play for, and he had a first impression to create. Doesn't mean he's written off but I feel my comments are valid, no? 

Your argument is all over the place. You're essentially saying judge him summer, but you're not, you're judging him now.

When you say "should be getting more out of the players", how should he? If the players aren't good enough, they're not good enough. There's a limit to what he can actually do for them - it's easy to say he should be coaching them better - but he's not teaching kids how to play football, they've all been playing it for years, they should know the basics of passing, shooting, tackling, marking, etc. They're probably doing many of the same coaching drills the top clubs are doing.

But he's not going to come in and eradicate all the mistakes players have been making all season within seven games, and I don't think he's going to make them all better players in that time either.

[LA-Don]

2 hours ago, Panda said:

Your argument is all over the place. You're essentially saying judge him summer, but you're not, you're judging him now.

When you say "should be getting more out of the players", how should he? If the players aren't good enough, they're not good enough. There's a limit to what he can actually do for them - it's easy to say he should be coaching them better - but he's not teaching kids how to play football, they've all been playing it for years, they should know the basics of passing, shooting, tackling, marking, etc. They're probably doing many of the same coaching drills the top clubs are doing.

But he's not going to come in and eradicate all the mistakes players have been making all season within seven games, and I don't think he's going to make them all better players in that time either.

How am I all over the place? Of course I am judging him now, aren't we all? It was a shit season and a change was made. We expect better than what we were getting. But it hasn't started any different to what we got from Glass. Did you not expect more since Glass got punted? We're in 9th place, 6 points off the relegation spot. One win in 7 isn't good enough. His job is to get the best out of a group of professionals, it's clear he hasn't done that to date. Why was Glass sacked in February if management didn't feel Goodwin could make the players play better and get more from this group?  I'm disappointed. Who isn't? We're bottom 6 and Goodwin couldn't win more than 1 in 7. We're so close to a European spot ffs.

You could argue early season Ojo was better than Goodwin is getting from him. Early season Ramirez, early season Ramsay too. Is it wrong to expect Goodwin to get more from this group? We know many of them are capable.

At the same time, judging now doesn't mean I've written him off. Goodwin has to be given a window or two to mold this team in to his own. But nothing so far suggests it will be different, but the summer will is crucial. How am I so wrong to criticize now but still be willing to give him a summer to improve things??

Edited April 14, 2022 by LA-Don

[Panda]

1 hour ago, LA-Don said:

But it hasn't started any different to what we got from Glass. Did you not expect more since Glass got punted?

Well I didn't want Glass punted. Felt the squad needed improved rather than the manager changed.

Since he's gone we've also lost Brown, who was one of our better players, and others (Ramirez, Ferguson) appear to be more concerned with their next move.

1 hour ago, LA-Don said:

We're in 9th place, 6 points off the relegation spot. One win in 7 isn't good enough. His job is to get the best out of a group of professionals, it's clear he hasn't done that to date.

But again, when you say get the best out of them, what are you expecting? That they're suddenly going to try harder, run faster, pass the ball better? 

You can develop players over time and integrate them into your system, but not in seven games.

Pep Guardiola is on record today in an interview as saying if he had managed Bielsa's Leeds side he wouldn't have got those group of players promoted. 

1 hour ago, LA-Don said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, LA-Don said:

You could argue early season Ojo was better than Goodwin is getting from him. Early season Ramirez, early season Ramsay too. Is it wrong to expect Goodwin to get more from this group? We know many of them are capable.

Ojo has I think played right-back in all games under Goodwin, to replace Ramsay who hasn't been fit, which answers your first two points. Ramirez looks uninterested.

1 hour ago, LA-Don said:

How am I so wrong to criticize now but still be willing to give him a summer to improve things??

I'm not saying you're wrong to criticise him. 

However, what are your criticisms of him? "Not getting the best out of players" is a bit vague. 

With Glass, there were obvious things he needed to change, like overplaying Brown and having him deployed almost as a box to box midfielder six years after he was capable of doing it, playing McCrore in defence, playing Ojo. But with Goodwin I'm not sure any other manager does much different than him in the short time he's had, especially since he isn't actually repeating many of the mistakes Glass did make.

[RicoS321]

4 hours ago, Panda said:

I'm not saying you're wrong to criticise him

To be fair, it sounded like that's what you were saying with your "writing him off already" comment, it was a little hyperbolic.

4 hours ago, Panda said:

However, what are your criticisms of him? "Not getting the best out of players" is a bit vague

I agree. It's very common in fitba fans, and people in general (not Orlando Don generally I don't think). People quick to point out a very obvious problem, but then unwilling to articulate and discuss the workings. It's why we still have Westminster and a two party system where people can other the other side without the need to think. And question time. I don't listen to any fitba phone ins, but they were riddled with messes making statements instead of asking questions:

Presenter: so caller, you're through, what's your question?

Mess: aye, Aberdeen are a disgrace, I've never seen us this bad and I've been gan for 57 year

Presenter: so what do you think the problem is?

Mess: well, it's just nae acceptable, is it?

Presenter: okay, so what do you think the problem is?

Mess: well, well, we just shouldnae be losing to Ross County.

Presenter: great, thanks for your call. That was a seething mess from Aberdeen with an on-air seethe.

Then you get moron pundits unable to articulate and discuss basic points about fitba. When they're proven wrong, they revert to the "well, it wasn't like that in my day, I can assure you".

Anyway, Goodwin's handling of the Considine situation was completely unprofessional and a huge stain on his judgement and the club's ability to handle themselves without recourse to statements. I expect better. If Goodwin is given autonomy over signings then the change from Glass to Goodwin is already worse for the club in the long term. Telling players they can leave in the summer before the county game lacked basic intelligence. Otherwise, I think he'll turn it around in a couple of seasons if the seething messes are willing to allow it. I don't think Glass was ever that good a manager, so I'm fine with him not getting longer to prove otherwise.

[LA-Don]

11 hours ago, Panda said:

Well I didn't want Glass punted. Felt the squad needed improved rather than the manager changed.

Since he's gone we've also lost Brown, who was one of our better players, and others (Ramirez, Ferguson) appear to be more concerned with their next move.

But again, when you say get the best out of them, what are you expecting? That they're suddenly going to try harder, run faster, pass the ball better? 

You can develop players over time and integrate them into your system, but not in seven games.

Pep Guardiola is on record today in an interview as saying if he had managed Bielsa's Leeds side he wouldn't have got those group of players promoted. 

 

 

Ojo has I think played right-back in all games under Goodwin, to replace Ramsay who hasn't been fit, which answers your first two points. Ramirez looks uninterested.

I'm not saying you're wrong to criticise him. 

However, what are your criticisms of him? "Not getting the best out of players" is a bit vague. 

With Glass, there were obvious things he needed to change, like overplaying Brown and having him deployed almost as a box to box midfielder six years after he was capable of doing it, playing McCrore in defence, playing Ojo. But with Goodwin I'm not sure any other manager does much different than him in the short time he's had, especially since he isn't actually repeating many of the mistakes Glass did make.

I've never coached at the professional level, but have coached for almost 30 years, made a career of it. A new coach can expect players to work harder immediately, and implement SOME different tactics (pass better) immediately. They are playing for their careers, and playing for a top 6 and European spot. The motivation to work harder is there. We made the management change mid February to specifically see a change in the following 7 games. We were bottom 6 and needed better, and had/have the squad to be better. What Goodwin has done to date isn't good enough. I'm not saying they were the correct tactics, but when Robson came in for McInnes, you immediately saw us as a build out the back team. Happened immediately. You can also expect players to change their defensive mindset immediately. High press, low press etc. Professional players can make immediate change with some things, plus their roles can be made clearer and they can be given more specific demands/instructions. 

It's the coaches job to get the most out of Ramirez and Ferguson. If he's not doing that, why keep playing them. While I don't know enough about Ruth, and I don't rate McLennan, both have played up top before. We also have McCrorie, McGeough, Ojo, Barron, and Jenks all capable of playing center mid. You say those two are more concerned about their next move, but it's either that or they aren't working harder/smart enough, either way Goodwin needs to do something there. WTF was Ferguson doing playing 50 yard diagonal balls last weekend, that's not his game. He was either coached/instructed to be doing that, or should have been told to knock that shit off as it's not his game.

Someone commented here that we're a more direct team under Goodwin. Are we? If so that's made us worse. We don't create and long ball hurts us, and gets even less out of Ramirez. Tactical adjustments are needed. Our problem is we don't get forward fast enough, and don't get numbers forward. Hayes is our best winger, play him higher up the park, with MacKenzie, Considine behind him, even recall Campbell to play LB. We struggle in attack, fix it. I'd play Ojo on the other side, early season Ojo did well as a winger, inspire him to play like that again. If Ramsay is injured play Kennedy/McLennan at RB, or McCrorie.

We lack the creativity of a 10, clear to everyone, but Ramirez needs central support. Ferguson is our best option, or Vinny, but we need a central player much higher up the park to connect with Ramirez. We almost always have a huge hole in the middle of the park between our deep center mids and Ramirez. Kills us. We have 4 defender, and two holding mids, say Barron and Ferguson/McCrorie, with a front 4 of Hayes, Vinny Ojo, and Ramirez, attack with those 4 at least, and coach them to play higher. That's still 6 behind the ball for much of the game, we're capable of doing that and have the talent to do so.

Coaching is at least 50% man management, you inspire and ring every ounce of ability and effort from a player. Again, look what we got from Ojo at the start of the season, something clicked. Who has been inspired by the new manager, and who has upped their game? Barron maybe, possibly McCrorie, but, to me, for the most part, it's still the same average effort from the team with similar blah tactics, and we didn't make a management change in February to get more of the same.

[LA-Don]

I'll also add, when Goodwin has hired, what do you think his short term/immediate goals were? What was he specifically asked to achieve? Top 6 and Europe? Do you think it's been a good positive start?

[Panda]

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

A new coach can expect players to work harder immediately, and implement SOME different tactics (pass better) immediately.

If you think one of the problems is players not working hard enough, that's on the players. 

If having Scott Brown in as captain and coach can't motivate them to work hard enough, then I'm not sure anything can.

 

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

We made the management change mid February to specifically see a change in the following 7 games. We were bottom 6 and needed better, and had/have the squad to be better. What Goodwin has done to date isn't good enough.

Let's look at those seven games.

1-1 Motherwell: Goodwin in the door 15 minutes, I don't think he even picked the team. 

The others

1-1 Dundee Utd

0-2 Hearts

0-1 Rangers

3-1 Hibs

2-2 Dundee

0-1 Ross County

Hearts/Rangers we were badly hit by injuries (though granted still expected better performance v Hearts).

A competent defence we probably beat Dundee. Cheap penalties conceded v United & County.

There's a common denominator in that the defence (and goalkeeper) haven't been good enough all season. It's not as simple as "we're going to work on defending this week" and expecting a clean sheet in response.

 

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

 

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

It's the coaches job to get the most out of Ramirez and Ferguson. If he's not doing that, why keep playing them. While I don't know enough about Ruth, and I don't rate McLennan, both have played up top before. We also have McCrorie, McGeough, Ojo, Barron, and Jenks all capable of playing center mid.

A few weeks ago people were raving about Ferguson's performance v Hibernian. Barron has been playing well. McCrorie has had good games. Vicente too. All under Goodwin.

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

I'd play Ojo on the other side, early season Ojo did well as a winger, inspire him to play like that again.

 Ojo is not good enough for Aberdeen. He did not impress earlier in the season, he just looked at times semi competent. For most of the season he's been like he has in his entire time at Aberdeen.

He should be the first name gone in summer. 

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

 

If Ramsay is injured play Kennedy/McLennan at RB, or McCrorie.

These things have been tried, and generally were a failure.

None of them are defenders. You're essentially suggesting square pegs in round holes.
 

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

 

10 hours ago, LA-Don said:

I'll also add, when Goodwin has hired, what do you think his short term/immediate goals were? What was he specifically asked to achieve? Top 6 and Europe? Do you think it's been a good positive start?

Obviously top six was the aim but I think it's harsh to lay the blame at Goodwin for us finishing there.

I look back at McInnes taking over. Aberdeen were in the bottom six. He had five games left of that season and only won one of them, despite them all being against bottom six sides. But the next season, with a full pre-season and some key signings, we had a very good first season under him.

Goodwin has had seven games, three with heavy injuries away to Motherwell, Hearts & Rangers. In the four that were more winnable, he's won one, drawn two and lost one. Disappointing, aye, especially since we should have beat Dundee which would have meant we'd only have needed a point v County. Fine margins.

But, I'll judge him next season.

[LA-Don]

Panda, you are clutching at straws now man.

If the players aren't working hard enough you don't play them. It's on the coach 100%. That's his job, to get them to work hard enough, both mentally and physically. For example, I'd rather see Ruth given a chance and work his ass off if Ramirez is half way out the door.

We've won 1 in 7, results don't lie. Stop making excuses.

You were the one that said Ferguson appeared to be more concerned about his next move, now you are saying people were raving about Ferguson. Eh??

You made the 'we're going to work on defending this week' comment and it not being that simple. It was Goodwin who came in the door and said he needed to fix defending and it wouldn't take much. Said that in an interview early on.

If we are vulnerable in defense and have a dodgy keeper then defend higher up the park. Change the tactics. Press a team higher, defend further forward, and play a more numbers forward attacking game. That's not complicated and we're dealing with professionals who can adapt quickly. You can play a high press and force an opponent to go long or make mistakes. As I said before, we don't get numbers up the park and end up defending closer to our own goal, and it's cost us. 

Ojo played well at the start of the year, that's a fact. He was praised for early season performances and got the typical "it's like signing a new player" comments. He is capable IF you can get him to perform. Problem has been consistency. Can Goodwin get him to perform? While I am happy to see him go this summer, he's shown me he's more capable than McLennan, Kennedy, and has given more to us than Devlin. That's 3 I'd show the door to before Ojo.

I'm not suggesting square peg round hole, why bring up another topic? We have Ramsay and McCrorie, capable right backs. Worst case with injuries I'd play Kennedy or McLennan there in order to play Ojo further forward, that's my point. Ojo is no better than them at right back. I'm simply saying Ojo has given more in an attacking sense, the area we are clearly lacking. Ideally none of the 3 are RB but this is a different topic.

I agree with one MAJOR thing. You said fine margins, and that's massive. Goodwin wins 3 in 7 and we're top 6 still fighting for a European place. Results (and clearly performances) to date are consistent with what Glass gave us, not good enough. 

[Panda]

11 hours ago, LA-Don said:

Panda, you are clutching at straws now man.

If the players aren't working hard enough you don't play them.

Who in your opinion isn't working hard enough, and who should they all be replaced with?

Goodwin has chucked JET. He'll move on more in summer. But he's not going to come in and play the reserves when he's trying to make the top six in order to make a point.

11 hours ago, LA-Don said:

It's on the coach 100%. That's his job, to get them to work hard enough, both mentally and physically.

So if a player doesn't work hard enough you blame the manager?

11 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

For example, I'd rather see Ruth given a chance and work his ass off if Ramirez is half way out the door.

In these last five games, yeh maybe Ruth gets his chance. Very few managers would be dropping a 16-goal striker for someone untested in big games.

11 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

You were the one that said Ferguson appeared to be more concerned about his next move, now you are saying people were raving about Ferguson. Eh??

You said that Goodwin wasn't capable of getting the best out of players. Yet Ferguson has played well under Goodwin, and some on this board put it down to him switching McCrorie into midfield.

Doesn't mean I think he was terrific v County.

11 hours ago, LA-Don said:

You made the 'we're going to work on defending this week' comment and it not being that simple. It was Goodwin who came in the door and said he needed to fix defending and it wouldn't take much. Said that in an interview early on.

If we are vulnerable in defense and have a dodgy keeper then defend higher up the park. Change the tactics. Press a team higher, defend further forward, and play a more numbers forward attacking game. That's not complicated and we're dealing with professionals who can adapt quickly.

You seem to have this football manager lark sorted. 

Not sure the "if you have a poor defence, just press higher and it'll be fine" really works though when the goals you're conceding recently are from set pieces.

11 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

Ojo played well at the start of the year, that's a fact. He was praised for early season performances and got the typical "it's like signing a new player" comments. He is capable IF you can get him to perform. Problem has been consistency. Can Goodwin get him to perform? While I am happy to see him go this summer, he's shown me he's more capable than McLennan, Kennedy, and has given more to us than Devlin. That's 3 I'd show the door to before Ojo.

Mate, Ojo is not good enough for Aberdeen. 

Trying to talk him up by comparing him to three players, two of which have had bad injuries, is bizarre. Literally saying his strength is that he's fit. That's like me claiming that since Maradona died I've been better at football than him.

11 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

 

[LA-Don]

Who isn't working hard enough? That would be pretty much the entire team, it's a team game. Effort is physical and mental, we need to work harder and smarter, and work more to minimize mistakes. Hard work also means decision making, being sharper too. Mental effort and focus. We're are 9th, 6 points off the relegation playoffs. We have many experienced players, many capped by their countries including a number at full international level, and players who we may sell on for millions. We're not producing what we are capable of, that's effort. That's also fact. You think we're excelling right now? Or could we do more?

I would mix things up to make a point. New manager has to set the tone. He made a point with Scott Brown, JET, gave Barron a chance, it's his job to be heard loud and clear from day one, and accept nothing less than the players best efforts. I don't think he's changed enough. All he's shown us in 7 games is that he's accepting less and we are still 9th.

I don't understand how you don't get this. It's the managers job and responsibility to get the team to perform. If they don't it's on him. That's why McInnes was binned, Glass too. Successful managers get the best out of the players they have. Goodwin appears to have done that at St. Mirren and that's why we hired him. I hope he does that with us, but I don't see it (yet?)

You were the one that said both Ferguson and Ramirez were more concerned about their next move. Now you are twisting it around and defending both....?

I agreed with you about Ojo. Happy to see him go. But my point was that, to me, Ojo and Hayes have been the most productive wingers at times this season and I'd play them higher up the park, not at right and left back. We struggle going forward and getting numbers up to support Ramirez and create, yet we see our better attacking player(s) at full back. Ojo has been replaced at full back so he's not been there much of late I will add. You also said Ojo should be first out the door, in my eyes there are others that deserve to go before him, that's all. Don't quite understand what you being better than a dead Maradona has in regard to comparison.

Yes, I do understand coaching. Been a coach for almost 30 years, including full time for a few years, 'A' licensed, done SFA and USSF badges. While it's all been at youth level, I've coached some pretty good teams and players, and been successful. I'm not naïve to think the professional game is different, but a lot of the coaching methodology and tactics are the same, just with better players (and egos) who can execute more.

Edited April 15, 2022 by LA-Don

[Panda]

22 hours ago, LA-Don said:

Who isn't working hard enough? That would be pretty much the entire team, it's a team game. Effort is physical and mental, we need to work harder and smarter, and work more to minimize mistakes. Hard work also means decision making, being sharper too. Mental effort and focus. We're are 9th, 6 points off the relegation playoffs. We have many experienced players, many capped by their countries including a number at full international level, and players who we may sell on for millions. We're not producing what we are capable of, that's effort. That's also fact. You think we're excelling right now? Or could we do more?

I think it's incredibly simplistic to expect a new manager comes in and makes an instinct impact.

There are very few examples of that happening. 

22 hours ago, LA-Don said:

I would mix things up to make a point. New manager has to set the tone. 

Yeh, and he'll do that in summer.

Out of interest, what would your team have been against Ross County?

22 hours ago, LA-Don said:

You were the one that said both Ferguson and Ramirez were more concerned about their next move. Now you are twisting it around and defending both....?

I'm not defending both. I'm pointing out Ferguson has played well under Goodwin, but I also think it's obvious both don't want to be here.

22 hours ago, LA-Don said:

I agreed with you about Ojo.

No you don't because you still think he's one of our better attacking players. He's not.

Give Vicente a run of games. Try and get Watkins fit. Not playing a boy who should be nowhere near the club next season if we have any ambitions at all.

22 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

22 hours ago, LA-Don said:

 

 

 

Yes, I do understand coaching. Been a coach for almost 30 years, including full time for a few years, 'A' licensed, done SFA and USSF badges. While it's all been at youth level, I've coached some pretty good teams and players, and been successful. I'm not naïve to think the professional game is different, but a lot of the coaching methodology and tactics are the same, just with better players (and egos) who can execute more.

Right, and in 30 years, are you telling me you've got the best out of every player, and if/when you haven't because that player hasn't been putting the work in, have you blamed yourself? 

And did you also only need a few weeks and games to improve everyone? 

 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

I think it's incredibly simplistic to expect a new manager comes in and makes an instinct impact.

There are very few examples of that happening

There are many, many examples of that. It even has a name: the new manager bounce. There's studies on it and everything. It apparently has a 15 game average effect. 

It doesn't always occur. It generally has no bearing on the long term performance of the manager.

[Elgindon]

27 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

There are many, many examples of that. It even has a name: the new manager bounce. There's studies on it and everything. It apparently has a 15 game average effect. 

It doesn't always occur. It generally has no bearing on the long term performance of the manager.

Without looking,how many of those new manager bounce guys fizzle out the following season or 2?  Assuming the current squad were 'bouncy' in the first place. 

    Whatever our opinions,Goodwin needs a longer grace period than he appears to be getting

Edited April 16, 2022 by Elgindon

[tom_widdows]

The last time we came close to a 'new manager bounce' Id say was Paul Hegarty in December 1998
3 wins and a draw