VAR

[RicoS321]

Another nail in the coffin of the spectator sport.

[Jute]

Has me thinking again about getting a season ticket. VAR is not needed and will not change anything as it’s the same cunts not giving decisions now as will be doing VAR next December.

[manc_don]

Welcome to VAR hell. Yes, there will be times when it is helpful, but there are also plenty of times that Scottish Referee incompetence will strike in favour of two certain teams. Convenient clipping of replays will happen.

[tom_widdows]

Different game I know but the dangers of relying on technology. Least the officials had some common sense in the end and they refused to use it for the second half
 

 

[RicoS321]

On 12/07/2022 at 22:53, tom_widdows said:

Different game I know but the dangers of relying on technology. Least the officials had some common sense in the end and they refused to use it for the second half
 

 

Surely var would pickup all those handballs? The two goals that were given were miles over the bar too.

[tlg1903]

October 21st sees it's introduction in the Scottish top flight.  It's gonna be interesting to see just how the sfa/spfl completely fuck this up

[manc_don]

Didn’t they say to expect three months of hell? I’m expecting far longer than that…

[RicoS321]

57 minutes ago, tlg1903 said:

October 21st sees it's introduction in the Scottish top flight.  It's gonna be interesting to see just how the sfa/spfl completely fuck this up

It's already a fuck up. Even if they got the best possible implementation it would still be honking.

[OxfordDon]

14 minutes ago, manc_don said:

Didn’t they say to expect three months of hell? I’m expecting far longer than that…

Well, the next old firm derby is 2nd Jan, so I'd imagine that's their deadline for getting it right.  Expect all controversial VAR decisions in the matches preceding this to be dismissed as "teething problems".

[RicoS321]

33 minutes ago, OxfordDon said:

Well, the next old firm derby is 2nd Jan, so I'd imagine that's their deadline for getting it right.  Expect all controversial VAR decisions in the matches preceding this to be dismissed as "teething problems".

They're cutting the VAR ribbon in a game involving Porteous and Martin Boyle, so that'll likely highlight 90% of its problems.

Anyone booking transport home from fir park should consider rescheduling on the assumption of a two hour delay.

[BigAl]

Well who'd have thought it

The first use of VAR in Scottish football is to check whether booking Martin Boyle for simulation was the correct decision 

The outcome was never in doubt to be honest 

[RicoS321]

36 minutes ago, BigAl said:

Well who'd have thought it

The first use of VAR in Scottish football is to check whether booking Martin Boyle for simulation was the correct decision 

The outcome was never in doubt to be honest 

What's the fucking point in VAR? You don't even need to see the incident to know that Boyle dived.

[BigAl]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

What's the fucking point in VAR? You don't even need to see the incident to know that Boyle dived.

Exactly my point mate

[RicoS321]

Hibs denied a penalty because someone's tit was offside or some shite. Correcting minor discrepancies in a player's timing of a run is exactly what fitba is about. Thanks sky.

[BigAl]

18 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

Hibs denied a penalty because someone's tit was offside or some shite. Correcting minor discrepancies in a player's timing of a run is exactly what fitba is about. Thanks sky.

Some may say however given it's them, that karma is a wonderful thing

[Jute]

12 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Hibs denied a penalty because someone's tit was offside or some shite. Correcting minor discrepancies in a player's timing of a run is exactly what fitba is about. Thanks sky.

Having watched last night I am even less convinced that VAR improves the game. Linesman actually flagged the Hibs forward offside it was only the new rule that stopped him raising the flag until the play was dead. No VAR he raises the flag when original ball was played. Instead play goes on until ball is dead then two minutes to review on VAR. Just cannot see how it improves the game.

[RicoS321]

43 minutes ago, Jute said:

Having watched last night I am even less convinced that VAR improves the game. Linesman actually flagged the Hibs forward offside it was only the new rule that stopped him raising the flag until the play was dead. No VAR he raises the flag when original ball was played. Instead play goes on until ball is dead then two minutes to review on VAR. Just cannot see how it improves the game.

It doesn't. It is an absolute failure in every single respect. Watch the highlights on the BBC, and you'll see them hanging around after the Saints goal in order for the checks to take place. It totally stifles enjoyment of watching fitba. It just moves the point of controversy from one location to another. There is no point that can be clearly delineated as "clear and obvious", so no "version" of VAR works. Furthermore, we're going to have the pathetic situation where refs are told that games involving the scum will be under greater scrutiny and so more time will be spent looking for potential incident for fear of missing something. It'll be interesting to see how long the game is held back for after their goals versus the rest. 

[RicoS321]

Ref leaving the decision for var to make as the vicTims get a penalty against them. Only three minutes to make the decision.

[BigAl]

It was an absolute farce Rico 

The Hearts one was just such a clear cut penalty in my view.

Haven't watched the second half as watching McKenna's Forrest beating Liverpool and just checked the Hearts score.... three each and Hearts have had TWO penalties.

VAR has a lot to answer for 

[OxfordDon]

There is nothing wrong with VAR the technology.  There is, however, a lot wrong with how it is currently being implemented in Scottish football, and VAR (the technology) is in danger of becoming a scapegoat that deflects from the continuing ineptitude of the referees operating it.

[RicoS321]

12 minutes ago, OxfordDon said:

There is nothing wrong with VAR the technology.  There is, however, a lot wrong with how it is currently being implemented in Scottish football, and VAR (the technology) is in danger of becoming a scapegoat that deflects from the continuing ineptitude of the referees operating it.

Nonsense. It's shite in every country it appears in for fans who attend games of football (take a look at polls in Germany, Netherlands, England etc). There is no "version" of VAR that works. It's a referee looking at a telly, not a technology. Clear and obvious is subjective and always will be. The number of decisions that are clear and obvious, as opposed to "subject to interpretation" will never be enough to justify its implementation and resultant watering down of the match going experience. 

[OxfordDon]

VAR is assistive technology (providing frame-by-frame video replay from multiple angles and objectively measuring player or ball positions for offside or goalline decisions), being utilised by video assistant referees (looking at a telly).

I don't disagree VAR has been badly implemented in football, and in my opinion the choices made in how it is being currently used in Scotland are highly debatable and risks turning into just two referees guessing instead of the usual one, which given the typical level of Scottish refereeing is like two blind men comparing sunsets.

However, I do think simply dismissing this as the fault of "VAR" carries a risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater  - assistive technologies to support refereeing decisions have been integrated successfully into other sports for years, e.g. rugby union, tennis, cricket, and the benefits are definitely there.

[RicoS321]

33 minutes ago, OxfordDon said:

I don't disagree VAR has been badly implemented in football, and in my opinion the choices made in how it is being currently used in Scotland are highly debatable and risks turning into just two referees guessing instead of the usual one, which given the typical level of Scottish refereeing is like two blind men comparing sunsets.

However, I do think simply dismissing this as the fault of "VAR" carries a risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater  - assistive technologies to support refereeing decisions have been integrated successfully into other sports for years, e.g. rugby union, tennis, cricket, and the benefits are definitely there

What choices are being used in Scotland? That's like saying that the way the pass back rule has been implemented in Scotland is poor. VAR is the same everywhere, by design. There is no versioning, and I'm not sure where the idea that there is has come from. 

VAR has existed in football for four years and has failed the match going supporter in every single league. The reason it works in other sports are exactly the reasons it doesn't work in live fitba. To add, tennis isn't comparable with VAR, it's equivalent is goal line technology. I think goal line technology is very good and an example of where technology can work to assist a referee (twice a year when there's a controversial goal line decision). There's no babies and bathwater, just a proposed solution that can't address the issues of subjective opinion without radically altering the game for the attending supporter. Not one person anywhere in the world has been able to draw a definitive marker on what is meant by clear and obvious in four years of the system being in play. It's collective ignorance and ego that keeps it going, backed by a cabal of childish managers, owners, pundits and EPL fanboys. If you can't define clear and obvious in a way that separates those decisions that are subject to checking from those that aren't then you don't have a working system. If fans are left wondering with every single goal, which they are, then it changes the way they watch the game. 

I've no problem with people saying that they enjoy the new watching experience, that removes the spontaneity entirely. Or that they enjoy the excitement of waiting for the goals to be confirmed or otherwise. It's those that pretend that VAR can ever be done in a way that doesn't change the experience that I have an issue with. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by RicoS321

[OxfordDon]

On 06/11/2022 at 15:27, RicoS321 said:

What choices are being used in Scotland? That's like saying that the way the pass back rule has been implemented in Scotland is poor. VAR is the same everywhere, by design. There is no versioning, and I'm not sure where the idea that there is has come from.

Choices such as the threshold for judging contact or handballs to award penalties, for example.

Just listening to BBC discussing this, and they mention an interesting stat that highlights this - frequency of penalties following VAR implementation in England was 0.24 penalties a game.  In Scotland so far it's double this at 0.58 a game.

[tom_widdows]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65040042

Only a matter of time