Jim Goodwin

[RicoS321]

Yep, he's going to need a miracle to turn it around from here. I don't think he was a bad appointment, there was everything to suggest that he should have been able to step up again after Alloa and St Mirren. Really, that's exactly what we're searching for in a manager and have been since our inception. A manager that can do an above average job based on their budget. The odds that we'll get someone that is the next Ferguson are extremely high. Anyone who stands out is almost always already out of our budget, and more often than not they can't replicate their form elsewhere regardless, as so much depends on the conditions.

As Panda mentions, the tactics at times have been horrendous and the changes in-game likewise. That alone is enough to seal his fate. However, it's important to acknowledge the conditions that both him and Glass have had to work in, in order that the next appointment is given time and support. We have been playing catch up since McInnes was disallowed from signing players, and then Glass given a lucky dip on transfers. Having to sign eleven players means that we were always going to be going into this season with a heavily imbalanced team with zero depth in some areas. With the pressure on to play attacking football, it's unsurprising that Goodwin prioritised that area of the pitch, and I don't think that we were hugely oversubscribed either (as we can see with the bench last night). We simply couldn't sign anymore players in the summer without it leading to disaster or just recruitment guess work. January being a difficult window to deal in means that we're limited on targeting preferred areas, with the risk of signing someone for the sake of it rather than a well-scouted signing available in the summer. We need to keep going with the squad building and keep building the recruitment process for the next manager (or Goodwin). The decision to ditch Considine was always going to backfire, and Panda correctly identifies Bates too in my opinion - a guy that was played continuously out of position for his entire time with us should have been ripe for a new-manager-turnaround. Having Considine would have made our defensive problems infinitely easier, and it was such a no brainer. Had we a proper director of football, Goodwin's approach to binning the entire team would have been more vociferously questioned, perhaps blocked. 

[orion_1885]

Dead man walking in my opinion.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

2 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

Had we a proper director of football

Not saying you are necessarily wrong Rico, but none of us know what Steven Gunn does on a day to day basis, how good he is at what he does and how well he is doing compared to others in the same field.

[Panda]

I backed him for the Aberdeen job as he had St Mirren defensively well organised (maybe too well at times as they weren't always a great watch). And, you could see he was attempting to slowly them into a more attractive side. They also had a knack of getting results against bigger sides, especially at home. Very much like this season under Stephen Robinson.

I expected him to be a manager who would keep it basic - defend the box, even long ball football, but get results and slowly develop the side over time into a more attractive one. So I thought he deserved the chance to see what he could do with a bigger budget.

However, he's shown he's still far too inexperienced for a job this big. Maybe one day he still develops into a good manager, but I see that being 3/4 years away at the rate he's progressing and I don't think Aberdeen can afford that.

[RicoS321]

49 minutes ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Not saying you are necessarily wrong Rico, but none of us know what Steven Gunn does on a day to day basis, how good he is at what he does and how well he is doing compared to others in the same field.

I'm just going on the evidence. An experienced director of football would have had prior knowledge of going into a season with a dearth of centre backs and highlighted the associated risks. They would have intervened in the Considine situation and, at the very least, ensured it was handled correctly. Goodwin is learning on the job. As was Glass prior to him. It isn't clear who they are learning from and being guided by.

[tlg1903]

Just looking to get a feel for how how we are all feeling about whether we should keep the manager. 

For me, yes and for the following reasons. 

1. It's too soon for me, especially since we pulled the trigger pretty early on glass.  Constantly changing your manager reduces the standard of applicant. Also you just need to look at arsenal to see the potential benefits of patience. 

2. I know last night was awful (well, first half was awful at the back but I thought we were good going forward. I watched it with a jambo and when it went 3-0 he was a confused as I was as to how were even losing let alone by 3) but on Sunday we were the exact opposite. We really looked a proper team with an identity and a heartbeat for the first time in a long time. 

[Panda]

I think he should go.

I think Glass should have been given more time as I could see what he was trying to do but didn't have the players to do it. And at least you could see with his substitutions he was reading the game and trying to change things.

But, with players like Funso Ojo, Teddy Jenks and Declan Gallagher - it was never going to be a fruitful season (yet just one point less than our current points total).

With Goodwin, I don't see what his plan is. I don't see any evidence of being able to read a game and change things. Dundee United, Rangers (Ibrox), Hibernian, Kilmarnock and Hearts - five examples of him having no idea to stop a poor night turning into a bad one. His substitutions at times just seem random. I don't watch the training - but I don't really see what we're working on and at times we don't appear that fit either.

Yes, the squad is still lacking, maybe third is too ambitious for his first season. But even if Aberdeen finished fourth now, the manner of some of the defeats have been horrendous, and we're being helped by others around us having poor seasons (Hibs and Dundee United mainly). McInnes was sacked for less (although granted, he had ample chances to improve it).

I don't see what keeping Goodwin would achieve, unless he suddenly improves training, tactics, and in-game management in a short space of time.

 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

11 defeats in 22 league games is a horrendous record.  I know new players take time to bed in but I just don't think it is working for Goodwin.  His tenure has all been a bit of a pantomime with a lot of naivety shown from Considine leaving, the Porteous incident, whatever has gone on with Ramirez and his statement at the start about third being the minimum requirement.  Anthony Stewart's comment about Morelos the other day just put the icing on the cake.  The job at times seems too big for him and I think he massively underestimated how big a club he was coming too especially the fact that everything a Dons manager says gets scrutinised in a way that he has not had in his previous clubs.  

[manc_don]

Out. Wasn't against his appointment, however felt that it was a bit unambitious at the time. Cormack needs to make sure if he does sack him, he can't afford to have a third failure in as many years under his tenure. It's been a disaster from day 1. Yes, there were lots of cracks due to DM's inability to adequately replace and overload the team, as well as tightening of purse strings by presumably Cormack, but we really can't afford to throw another season down the pan. The very least, I expected him to address the defensive issues, given it was so easy to do, but we've got infinitely worse. Consi (now) is past it, but his knowledge of the club, providing continuity would have been an easy win. It's mental.

Do we throw cash at this window and hope we get some things right and deal with it in the summer? The list of available managers itself is highly uninspiring. 

[BigAl]

C'mon down Big Sam 

[BigAl]

Latest odds with Coral:

Lambert 2/1

Ross 7/2

Lennon 4/1

Martindale 6/1

Fletcher (D) 8/1

Ferguson (D) 10/1

Warburton 12/1

Holy mother of God.

Is that really the best they can come up with 

[Jute]

Think that is standard list they always trot out. 

[BigAl]

9 minutes ago, Jute said:

Think that is standard list they always trot out. 

Is Stuart Baxter deid ?

[RicoS321]

1 minute ago, BigAl said:

Is Stuart Baxter deid ?

Either way, get him in until the end of the season.

[Elgindon]

If we cant get a hud of Stuart Baxter ,I'd say keep going with Goodwin

  I was underwhelmed by his appt like a lot of people. Ideally he could have probably spent another year or 2 at St mirren to bolster his CV before coming to us.But,...youd have to imagine he's learning a huge amount in the time he has been here,to the extent where,if we assume he's growing as a manager(mistakes and all),he might be approaching a point where he's actually becoming a good manager?  He comes across as intelligent enough to become one at least...

 The downside is,he's always had his haters,and after recent results the addition of newer ones, ....enough now that he may be close to tipping point. Needs a lot of luck the next few games

 

[Kowalski]

5 hours ago, BigAl said:

Latest odds with Coral:

Lambert 2/1

Ross 7/2

Lennon 4/1

Martindale 6/1

Fletcher (D) 8/1

Ferguson (D) 10/1

Warburton 12/1

Holy mother of God.

Is that really the best they can come up with 

If it’s Warburton then at least he should be able to sort out the bread and butter stuff. 

[wee toon red]

5 hours ago, BigAl said:

Latest odds with Coral:

Lambert 2/1

Ross 7/2

Lennon 4/1

Martindale 6/1

Fletcher (D) 8/1

Ferguson (D) 10/1

Warburton 12/1

Holy mother of God.

Is that really the best they can come up with 

If that was really all that was on offer then keeping Goodwin would be better. However, if Owen Coyle or Malky Mackay were in the running...

[tlg1903]

If he was getting binned it would have happened by now.  

 

[sheepheid]

58 minutes ago, tlg1903 said:

If he was getting binned it would have happened by now.  

 

perhaps Cormack is just lining up his replacement but ensuring the players have stability in the meantime. 
 

[Slim]

Board meeting this afternoon, hopefully the Yanks will give their approval to get rid.

[RicoS321]

I want him to stay now. Fed up of all the new manager pish. Give him a five year extension to ease the tension and give him a bit of long term security.

[Jute]

13 minutes ago, RicoS321 said:

I want him to stay now. Fed up of all the new manager pish. Give him a five year extension to ease the tension and give him a bit of long term security.

I think it may well be something like that they come outwith. Also terminating Shinne’s loan early to remove an obvious issue to Jim’s leadership. 

[RicoS321]

48 minutes ago, Jute said:

I think it may well be something like that they come outwith. Also terminating Shinne’s loan early to remove an obvious issue to Jim’s leadership. 

I think that they'll really, really want to, but his position is untenable and I think they'll know that. I think Jim will too.

It's a real shame, everything about him as a character suggests he should have the qualities to be a really good manager. A strong work ethic, good leadership (St Mirren cup winning captain etc), doesn't suffer fools, intelligent and articulate but grounded. I can see why the board would think that they're so close and want him to keep learning. However, his tactical ineptitude (immaturity, even) isn't going to be overcome overnight and I suspect his understanding and patience will have already boiled over with the players making the dressing room untenable too. 

I expect we'll see him doing a good job elsewhere soon. We won't see any of the 3-1-4-2s or the other nonsense setups when there is no pressure on him to produce entertainment elsewhere and he'll become a cautious, disciplined manager ala McInnes and be a good fit for someone. 

[tlg1903]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

I think that they'll really, really want to, but his position is untenable and I think they'll know that. I think Jim will too.

It's a real shame, everything about him as a character suggests he should have the qualities to be a really good manager. A strong work ethic, good leadership (St Mirren cup winning captain etc), doesn't suffer fools, intelligent and articulate but grounded. I can see why the board would think that they're so close and want him to keep learning. However, his tactical ineptitude (immaturity, even) isn't going to be overcome overnight and I suspect his understanding and patience will have already boiled over with the players making the dressing room untenable too. 

I expect we'll see him doing a good job elsewhere soon. We won't see any of the 3-1-4-2s or the other nonsense setups when there is no pressure on him to produce entertainment elsewhere and he'll become a cautious, disciplined manager ala McInnes and be a good fit for someone. 

Hard to argue with any of that. 

[redordead]

Seriously though. If he doesn't go, I can't see myself or my boys even watching another game on TV this season.

Any spl manager that can't produce a victory in that game should fall on their sword.