Well vs. Dons

[OrlandoDon]

Saw the first hour and didn’t see us winning the game. Not a great performance but certainly a good result. Totally feel the 4-2-3-1 is the way to go, just don’t see our midfield strong enough, didn’t think much of Barron and clarkson in together there. While two up top is working ok I just don’t think midfield and defense is as solid. Mccrorie and ramadani ahead of them is our best bet, helps defense and midfield, plus I still feel an attacking creative 10 is still missing. A game like today needed that.

I rate miovski highly, the service isn’t great, and I think we’re going more long ball again with two up top. Also funny to see the evolution of Duk, an overweight eyebrow raiser a couple of months ago!

third and we cannot figure out our best lineup or formation, hope we see continuity soon.

[scotfree]

Thoughts on VAR?

[Panda]

25 minutes ago, scotfree said:

Thoughts on VAR?

Checking penalties & red cards - fine.

But offsides at goals, that needs to be speeded up. I don't understand how it took around two minutes to decide on Miovski's goal. 

[Panda]

Feels like a really big win that.

We knew under McInnes we had a team capable of success when we could win away regularly.

Our away record this season still isn't much to shout about - two wins, three defeats, one draw (league). But there was a sign of the early McInnes in Aberdeen at Fir Park. Limited them at the back, and clinical at the other end.

 

There's a lot of parallels with McInnes' first full season too.

After 11 games Aberdeen had 20 points (19 this season), we had won at Fir Park in October - this time to reach the League Cup semis. We'd won 3 out of 6 league away games (2 from 6 this time, but one of those was Celtic away). We'd struggled v Alloa in the cup - struggled v Annan this season.

It's an interesting comparison with that team & our current one. Rooney & Logan didn't join until January, so the general starting line-up was:-

Langfield

Shaughnessy Anderson Hector Reynolds 

Jack Flood

McGinn Pawlett Hayes

Vernon 

(also had Barry Robson, Clark Robertson, Cammy Smith, Calvin Zola. Think Considine was injured for most of the first part of the season.)

 

 

[tom_widdows]

6 hours ago, Panda said:

Checking penalties & red cards - fine.

But offsides at goals, that needs to be speeded up. I don't understand how it took around two minutes to decide on Miovski's goal. 

20 seconds for YTS boy in the control room to look up from his phone, 10 seconds for his brain to click into gear, 20 seconds to take a swig of coffee and a bite of his sandwich, 10 seconds to actually look at the goal, another 10 seconds to put his glasses on, 10 seconds to look at it again, 20seconds while he discusses it with his neighbour, 15 seconds 'just because', 5 seconds to actually say 'sorry we have to give it to them'

[RicoS321]

7 hours ago, Panda said:

Checking penalties & red cards - fine.

But offsides at goals, that needs to be speeded up. I don't understand how it took around two minutes to decide on Miovski's goal. 

It's taken two minutes at every goal, it's horrendous. They weren't just checking for offside at Miovski's goal, they were checking for no fouls in the build up too. I'd like to think that the tech guy sorts the framing for the offside while the ref checks for fouls and then verifies the offside. But maybe they're going through some sort of checklist, ticking stuff off (no handball, no fouls etc). 

The obvious criticism of Miovski's goal is that the flag was raised at all. If VAR is checking everything then why does the linesman raise his flag after the ball is in the net? If the move had come to nothing (or a pen like in the Hibs game) then fair enough, raise your flag. When the ball goes in the back of the net, at least let the celebration happen and let VAR pickup the offside if it's close (which it wasn't). In my opinion, the refs and linesmen are acting differently in the knowledge that they have VAR to bail them out, it's rank. The stoppage after every single goal and the pathetic "VAR check" on the big screen or over the tannoy is just a complete game ruining experience. I've sat through the worst of Miller, Aitken, Miller, Patterson and McGhee, but I've never been so close to giving up my season ticket as I am now that these bureaucratic, "technology" cunts have seeped into our game in the pursuit of "accuracy" at the altar of the English fitba pundit. It's the worst thing that has ever entered the game of fitba. Worse than the champions league shite, which I can at least avoid. The fuckers that sit and watch the English premiership on the TV who don't attend games of fitba, that have been prioritised over the game going fans, should be taped to a chair and have "VAR check" burned into their retinas.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Amazing the amount of chances Miovski and Lopes have missed this season despite the good number of goals they have actually scored. That’s not meant as a criticism like, just that I can see us running up quite a few fours and fives this season against the shitey teams when it all clicks for them. 

 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

On the VAR thing I don’t know why they waste time during the game getting the ref to look at the monitor. If he misses something, the guy in his lug should just be saying you need to give a penalty or number 6 needs to be sent off. Doing it that way also takes the heat off the ref a bit. In the old days, if the linesman told the ref he saw a foul and the player should be sent off he would have just done it so not sure why he can’t just take the word of the video ref.

[tlg1903]

23 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

VAR does nothing to help shite decisions like booking Duk there. How on earth has Lamie not been booked?

Var can't interfere with yellow cards unless they believe it should have been a red. I watched the game on redtv and just before it the put this on 

 

 

[tlg1903]

6 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

It's taken two minutes at every goal, it's horrendous. They weren't just checking for offside at Miovski's goal, they were checking for no fouls in the build up too. I'd like to think that the tech guy sorts the framing for the offside while the ref checks for fouls and then verifies the offside. But maybe they're going through some sort of checklist, ticking stuff off (no handball, no fouls etc). 

The obvious criticism of Miovski's goal is that the flag was raised at all. If VAR is checking everything then why does the linesman raise his flag after the ball is in the net? If the move had come to nothing (or a pen like in the Hibs game) then fair enough, raise your flag. When the ball goes in the back of the net, at least let the celebration happen and let VAR pickup the offside if it's close (which it wasn't). In my opinion, the refs and linesmen are acting differently in the knowledge that they have VAR to bail them out, it's rank. The stoppage after every single goal and the pathetic "VAR check" on the big screen or over the tannoy is just a complete game ruining experience. I've sat through the worst of Miller, Aitken, Miller, Patterson and McGhee, but I've never been so close to giving up my season ticket as I am now that these bureaucratic, "technology" cunts have seeped into our game in the pursuit of "accuracy" at the altar of the English fitba pundit. It's the worst thing that has ever entered the game of fitba. Worse than the champions league shite, which I can at least avoid. The fuckers that sit and watch the English premiership on the TV who don't attend games of fitba, that have been prioritised over the game going fans, should be taped to a chair and have "VAR check" burned into their retinas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63309192

Decent wee video on how they are going about it. 

[tlg1903]

5 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

On the VAR thing I don’t know why they waste time during the game getting the ref to look at the monitor. If he misses something, the guy in his lug should just be saying you need to give a penalty or number 6 needs to be sent off. Doing it that way also takes the heat off the ref a bit. In the old days, if the linesman told the ref he saw a foul and the player should be sent off he would have just done it so not sure why he can’t just take the word of the video ref.

What I don't understand is why he doesn't have a phone strapped to his wrist and if they think he should rewatch something he stops play and watches it there and then.  

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, tlg1903 said:

Var can't interfere with yellow cards unless they believe it should have been a red. I watched the game on redtv and just before it the put this on

I know that, that's why I said "it does nothing" to help. It's those little decisions - fair chance Lamie wouldn't have lasted the ninety - that have a big effect on the way the games goes. There was another missed booking when two Motherwell players should have been in the book for taking out Duk in the same run, but only the second player was cautioned. Anyway, I'm not asking VAR to intervene for yellows, it's horrendous enough as is. 

[dons8321]

8 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

On the VAR thing I don’t know why they waste time during the game getting the ref to look at the monitor. If he misses something, the guy in his lug should just be saying you need to give a penalty or number 6 needs to be sent off. Doing it that way also takes the heat off the ref a bit. In the old days, if the linesman told the ref he saw a foul and the player should be sent off he would have just done it so not sure why he can’t just take the word of the video ref.

Isn't that basically how it works in cricket?  The batsman/bowler's captain appeals...it goes to the Hawkeye and it's either "yes your decision is correct or no it's not correct or if it's iffy then it the officials original call" - so that even if it looked like the ball was going onto clip the wicket it wasn't a clear and obvious error.  And it takes about a minute.  

[RicoS321]

2 hours ago, dons8321 said:

Isn't that basically how it works in cricket?  The batsman/bowler's captain appeals...it goes to the Hawkeye and it's either "yes your decision is correct or no it's not correct or if it's iffy then it the officials original call" - so that even if it looked like the ball was going onto clip the wicket it wasn't a clear and obvious error.  And it takes about a minute.  

One minute? Fucking hell. Even a sport that takes days to complete a single game has a faster turnaround.

[sancho_panza]

The problem is VAR has been billed as some kind of flawless error elimination device. Even the name and the way people talk about it is weird. It's a referee looking at a TV screen yet we refer to it like it's a hyperadvanced robot.

It's that quest for perfection that causes all the problems - if we just had another official (with a name) helping the referee by looking at a replay and giving instant feedback then errors would go down and it wouldn't disrupt the game much. That's basically what we wanted in the first place.

Mistakes would still happen but we'd just blame them on the referee as we've always done and we wouldn't need to treat every goal like a potential crime scene.

[OxfordDon]

On 23/10/2022 at 00:53, scotfree said:

Thoughts on VAR?

Just checking my opinion now, be with you shortly.

[RicoS321]

3 hours ago, sancho_panza said:

It's that quest for perfection that causes all the problems - if we just had another official (with a name) helping the referee by looking at a replay and giving instant feedback then errors would go down and it wouldn't disrupt the game much. That's basically what we wanted in the first place.

Great points you make. I slightly disagree with the above though. You're correct in that that's what people wanted. The point though, is that it could never be as you describe. That instant feedback would always lead to a VAR type situation. As soon as the first pen is incorrectly given against the Huns (or the English Hun equivalent), the system needs looked at because he didn't spend enough time assessing it, or he didn't check it from the sixteenth camera angle available on Sky TV (the sheer number of camera angles means it's going to take longer). If we've got those sixteen cameras, then we have to be using them for offside, don't we? Any introduction of video replays will always lead to what we've got. There is no good system of video replays, it's just a failed experiment. If we could automate offside decisions in the same way that they do goalline technology (correctly deemed too expensive in Scotland) then that would acceptable, but it would need a change to the rules (interfering with play could likely only be a human decision). Anything else doesn't work, and never will, it just changes the point of controversy to: "was the foul on Lamie not clear and obvious?". It's failed in its first weekend in Scotland, just as it has failed since its introduction. There will never be a situation where we can have a quick check, or only the correct the clear and obvious errors, because those things are mutable (and the point at which you only correct the really clear and obvious means that the system is too expensive to bother with like goalline tech has proven). Even a system of X number of challenges would only get greater over time, like subs have.

What really surprises me though, is the inability for anyone, anywhere, to recognise that it's a failed experiment and that football fans (I mean actual fans) have allowed it to happen. It's like everyone is giving it just one more chance - in perpetuity - to work. It's like a fear of not having the latest thing.