McInnes' Killie v Goodwin's Dons

[Panda]

I work with a ridiculous amount of Kilmarnock fans. There's both my boss and my immediate line manager who are Killie fans. Plus another five of them just itching to win this on Wednesday.

So, for the good of my career, let's smash them. If there's one thing the Killie fans love, especially my boss, it's me being a smug bastard.

With Stewart out let's abandon the three at the back. Let's play Mackenzie at LCB and develop him. Scales can play LB and Coulson pushed further forward if Hayes is injured.

I'd start Duncan too. Play him off Ramirez if Duk is injured.

And I'd start Lewis over Roos.

 

Out (working, with two of the seven Killie fans),

Prediction: 1-2 the Dons. Taylor for them, two Taylor own goals for us.

[Slim]

I’d throw in Jack Milne and see if he’s ready yet. Might save us some money in January. 

[Jute]

At least Stewart will be out. Would play McKenzie at left centre back and move Scales into middle of three. Not sure how injured Coulson is but if he is out hopefully Hayes is fit to replace him. Despite Colgates Christmas message of support I do think a loss on Tuesday might see the manager come under some severe pressure.

In/oot not sure yet.

Flat or train 

Flat or away end

Train back to Capital or flat

2-0 Ramierz and Miovski.

[Elgindon]

Think Goodwin should get til the end of the season,but he has an unhealthy enough amount of unsupporters now,and since his appt,which may hasten his departure.

  Current adversity might have been the making of some managers,dont think hes so thick as to not see what we see.We've a 2/3 assembled squad,signing success rate has been slightly better than previous managers.Didn't get it right in defence,the main source of our issues.Are we not as well seeing if he can rectify that before changing manager again? 

  Anyway - Oot

Furryboots - Sunny Moray

Prediction - 1 - 3 Dons Bavidge x3

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Elgindon

[manc_don]

Pretty fucked off with the way things are at the moment, and with our main attacking threat likely out, I’m not convinced we’re going to do much unless there’s a huge shift in mentality. Our away form truly is horrendous, so can see this being a narrow loss. Agree that think we should be switching to a back four, and swapping Roos out for a bit. If only for a kick up the arse. I would love us to pump McInnes. Truly. But it ain’t happening. 
 

out

house

house

house

1-0, killie, no dons scorer

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Disappointed with how McInnes left us  and Cormack did not appreciate how good a manager he had inherited, I believe he is starting to see it now with the two pantomimes that have followed. Would not begrudge McInnes an opportunity to give Cormack the two fingers.

[OrlandoDon]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Disappointed with how McInnes left us  and Cormack did not appreciate how good a manager he had inherited, I believe he is starting to see it now with the two pantomimes that have followed. Would not begrudge McInnes an opportunity to give Cormack the two fingers.

Wrong chain for the debate but McInnes was just as average as Goodwin appears to be. McInnes joined us with more experience than Goodwin having been in England, but he had two major factors going for him - he inherited a good squad with Anderson, Considine, Hayes, McGinn, Flood, Jack, Rooney, Reynolds, Robson, and Logan, Goodwin is starting with very little and a complete overhaul. McInnes joined us when Rangers weren't in the league, and Hibs Hearts and Utd had/were all relegated at some point. The league was piss and we were best of the rest. When Rangers, Hearts Hibs and Utd were decent in McInness' latter years we struggled and truly saw McInnes' limitations. McInnes won one trophy on penalties, he underachieved to me when we clearly had the second best squad in the league. I truly feel we'd have won the league with a good manager when we pushed Celtic that one year but McInnes shat it. I'd argue Goodwin would have been just as successful, if not more, in those years.

Goodwin isn't experienced enough for our rebuild and we're seeing that. Case and point appointing Stewart as club captain. I honesty see very little between the two managers, average SPL managers.

[Panda]

Re-pressure in Goodwin.

Think the four critical games in January will shape Cormack's feelings towards Goodwin more than this week.

Rangers at Hampden

Hearts at Tynecastle

Darvel Scottish Cup

Hibs at Easter Road

Best case scenario: We're in a cup final, next round of Scottish Cup, and hit two rivals for third hard. That would probably buy Goodwin until summer.

But, although I think we'll beat Darvel regardless, if we lose the other three then the fans anger will be fierce. I don't think Cormack would sack him, but shoogly peg and all that.

Back to now: Hearts have St Johnstone away & Hibs next, tough games. Six points from six for us against Killie & Ross County and we could establish a lead in third again.

[OrlandoDon]

10 minutes ago, Panda said:

Re-pressure in Goodwin.

Think the four critical games in January will shape Cormack's feelings towards Goodwin more than this week.

Rangers at Hampden

Hearts at Tynecastle

Darvel Scottish Cup

Hibs at Easter Road

Best case scenario: We're in a cup final, next round of Scottish Cup, and hit two rivals for third hard. That would probably buy Goodwin until summer.

But, although I think we'll beat Darvel regardless, if we lose the other three then the fans anger will be fierce. I don't think Cormack would sack him, but shoogly peg and all that.

Back to now: Hearts have St Johnstone away & Hibs next, tough games. Six points from six for us against Killie & Ross County and we could establish a lead in third again.

That’s what’s interesting about this situation. We’re still third after a shit week. If we find form (not sure how though) and results go our way we can strengthen third. At the same time though, and very realistic, a shit run and we drop to 8th or 9th very quickly.

[Jute]

Apparently we are only 1 point better off after 18 games than we were with Glass. Not convinced that’s a particularly good return on the summer investment. Lose the next couple and suspect Colgate will be thinking the same. 

[RicoS321]

51 minutes ago, Jute said:

Apparently we are only 1 point better off after 18 games than we were with Glass. Not convinced that’s a particularly good return on the summer investment. Lose the next couple and suspect Colgate will be thinking the same. 

Yep, it's not brilliant. The problem that we've had is inconsistency. If we'd just been like Hibs, mainly shite but occasionally good, Goodwin would be in a far better position. There should have been no expectation on Goodwin this season, and Cormack should have been very clear about that. It's completely unrealistic to expect any manager to build a consistent team from where we started in the summer (just as it was for Glass). Our major problems are with personnel. That has resulted in trying to shoehorn formations onto players rather than the opposite. He's consistently having to choose between two bad options, as we don't have the option to really mix things up. Put McRorie into midfield and watch Stewart and Richardson fuck us up from the back. McRorie at the back and watch us be overrun in midfield. Miovski on his own and he's anonymous. Duk alongside him and the midfield have to work twice as hard. Richardson or Kennedy at fullback. And so on (all laid on top of a chairman insisting on attacking fitba, playing out from the back etc). It all stems from not having numbers carried forward from one window to the next. We're a good couple of windows away from sorting that, given a successful return of 50% on signings. Cormack should have addressed that at the beginning of the season (he should have stressed it under Glass, instead of hanging him out to dry) and insisted that it was a transition season to rebuild the squad under new recruitment practices. It should have been reiterated by management at every step, after good games as well as bad. The summer investment, for me, means absolutely nothing. Recruitment at any level of investment is still an uncertainty, but it's almost always helped by having a semblance of a team to fall back on. Thon Hun-scouse fucker couldn't overhaul the Dons in a couple of years of massive investment, because we had an established side. 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

On 26/12/2022 at 13:22, OrlandoDon said:

he inherited a good squad with Anderson, Considine, Hayes, McGinn, Flood, Jack, Rooney, Reynolds, Robson, and Logan, Goodwin is starting with very little and a complete overhaul. McInnes joined us when Rangers weren't in the league, and Hibs Hearts and Utd had/were all relegated at some point. The league was piss and we were best of the rest. When Rangers, Hearts Hibs and Utd were decent in McInness' latter years we struggled and truly saw McInnes' limitations. McInnes won one trophy on penalties, he underachieved to me when we clearly had the second best squad in the league. I truly feel we'd have won the league with a good manager when we pushed Celtic that one year but McInnes shat it. I'd argue Goodwin would have been just as successful, if not more, in those years.

McInnes signed Logan, Robson and Rooney.

Not sure why winning the league cup on penalties is scoffed at like it doesn’t could as a trophy. Are we not classing Argentina as proper world champions because they did not win the cup in the 90 minutes?  Pretty sure we would all take a win on penalties in the forthcoming semi final.

I’d also argue that the league is no better now than it was 10 years ago, Rangers aside. Utd, Hibs and Hearts are no better than the teams they replaced. The performances in Europe this season demonstrated just that.

So far Goodwin has had a fortune to spend and produced very little.

[Panda]

Yep, we didn't win a cup on penalties. We thumped Falkirk 5-0, beat Motherwell with 10 men at Fir Park, and thrashed St Johnstone in the semi-final. Did we not win the cup without conceding a goal? 

 

And I also agree on the strength of the division now versus then. McInnes' Aberdeen may not get above either of the current Old Firm, but they would be comfortably third and due to the current coefficient would be lording it in the group stages every year.

[OrlandoDon]

5 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

McInnes signed Logan, Robson and Rooney.

Not sure why winning the league cup on penalties is scoffed at like it doesn’t could as a trophy. Are we not classing Argentina as proper world champions because they did not win the cup in the 90 minutes?  Pretty sure we would all take a win on penalties in the forthcoming semi final.

I’d also argue that the league is no better now than it was 10 years ago, Rangers aside. Utd, Hibs and Hearts are no better than the teams they replaced. The performances in Europe this season demonstrated just that.

So far Goodwin has had a fortune to spend and produced very little.

You are correct re those 3, McInnes was 2013 and not 2014. But my argument is still valid, he inherited a much stronger squad than Goodwin. And yes, winning on penalties is winning a trophy. But penalties still has an element of luck, that's fact too. But yes, he won one trophy, and of course I'd take winning the semi on penalties. My point is that in the time he was here that's all he won, and while the league was piss we were a steady second, fact too. I think McInnes underachieved with a good squad for 3-4 years at least. Then we got worse and the rest got better, we were no longer second, and eventually McInnes got punted. I just don't see DM as a great manager, he had circumstances in his favor, Goodwin definitely has not.

The league is better, we cannot get second. Apart from that I'd agree, the rest of the teams, like us, are bang average at present. If we had the 2013-2016 dons squad we would romp 3rd and be pushing the huns for second. Go on a run now and third is ours, but another 3 losses and we're 8th or so. We're as piss now as we were in the latter years of McInnes and I stick by my initial email. McInnes was no god, and Goodwin isn't showing anything to suggest we're in better hands than Glass.

[Panda]

No-one is claiming McInnes was a great manager or "a god".

But in his first four years as manager he did very well. 

In his final four years, he underachieved.

Would still say he ranks above everyone in the division bar Ange based on his accomplishments. 

[Panda]

17 hours ago, OrlandoDon said:

But my argument is still valid, he inherited a much stronger squad than Goodwin

McInnes' first line-up:

Langfield

Shaughnessy Anderson Reynolds Robertson

Jack Rae

McGinn Milson Hayes

Magennis

 

Goodwin's first line-up:

Lewis

Ramsay Gallagher Bates Montgomery

McCrorie Ferguson

Besuijen Barron Hayes

Ramirez

 

 

[RicoS321]

43 minutes ago, Panda said:

Lewis

Ramsay Gallagher Bates Montgomery

McCrorie Ferguson

I thought mentioning of him was banned?

[tlg1903]

On 26/12/2022 at 15:51, Jute said:

Apparently we are only 1 point better off after 18 games than we were with Glass. Not convinced that’s a particularly good return on the summer investment. Lose the next couple and suspect Colgate will be thinking the same. 

Colgate

[Jute]

[OrlandoDon]

Just now, Jute said:

I assume 3-5-2 with Ryan Duncan in clarkson’s center mid role??

[Jute]

That would be my guess as well. 

[Elgindon]

Good to see Duncan get a run at last,and Duk and Coulson fit.Not overly pessimistic about this one for some reason 

Anyone got a stream?,Hesgoals off radar

Edited December 28, 2022 by Elgindon

[redordead]

I know I say this regularly but how does miovski keep his place ahead of Ramirez?

A proven goalscorer in a poor team last year whilst Ferguson took the penalties.

[BigAl]

5 minutes ago, Elgindon said:

Good to see Duncan get a run at last,and Duk and Coulson fit.Not overly pessimistic about this one for some reason 

Anyone got a stream?,Hesgoals off radar

I'll keep you update mate.

Aff my head, but have made the fifteen minute drive to Killie.

[Elgindon]

5 minutes ago, redordead said:

I know I say this regularly but how does miovski keep his place ahead of Ramirez?

A proven goalscorer in a poor team last year whilst Ferguson took the penalties.

This not a more likely game for Miovski to do well? ie does better against the weaker teams

Edited December 28, 2022 by Elgindon