Sooo European Football again eh?

[Panda]

Have attempted to work out what we'll earn from qualifying for the two respective competitions, based on the estimated prize money.

These aren't exact figures as a lot of it is still too early to work out, as payments change based on the number of countries represented, coefficients, and other money that isn't decided until the end of the group stage, but we'll be in the right ballpark.

 

Firstly, last season Hearts earned €4.5m from being in the Conference League group stage, winning two games, getting a 100% share of Scotland's TV money for the group stage, and a payment based on their 10-year coefficient ranking (FYI: Aberdeen are ranked 215th, Hearts 258th).

 

What Aberdeen can expect this season...

Europa League

Starting fee €3.63m

€0.63m per win / €0.21m per draw

Finish third €0.5m

Finish second €1.75m

Finish first €2.3m

Coefficient ranking €0.66m*

TV money**:

- If only Scottish team €2.58m

- If Rangers drop into Europa: €1.03m

(Rangers would get 60%, Aberdeen 40%)

*This is impossible to work out at this stage, but is an estimate on where we'd likely be ranked out of the 32 teams.

**Again can't be worked out until the 32 teams are known due to other distribution models.

What we get: If being realistic, best case scenario is third in which case we could make €8.5m plus have a crack at Conference League knockouts (€7m if Rangers also in groups).

Worst case scenario is fourth, six losses, and Rangers also in groups. We could still walk away with over €5m.

Europa Conference League

Starting fee: €2.94m

€0.5m per win / €0.17m per draw.

Finish second: €0.625m

Finish first: €1.25m

Coefficient ranking*: €0.22

TV money*:

- If only Scottish team: €0.435

- If one of Hearts/Hibs qualify: €0.261

(Aberdeen get 60%)

- If both Hearts/Hibs qualify: €0.174

(Aberdeen get 40%, the other two both 30%)

Parachute payment from losing Europa League play-off: Hearts received €290,000 last season

*Again coefficient ranking & TV money is guess work as the 32 teams aren't known. 

Realistically, best we do is maybe second if draw is favourable. That would be around €6m plus the knockout stage.

Do what Hearts did last year and it's around €4.5m again, perhaps slightly more.

Worst case scenario lose every game, then €3.1m to €3.5m.

 

Things to note: These are in Euros. So €3.1m is more like £2.67m.

Also these don't include ticket sales, however it's easy to say we'll make maybe £1.5m - £2m on ticket sales and count that as profit.

However, when you consider the stadium upgrades we've paid for, charter flights, hotels, security, policing etc, basically that £1.5m to £2m disappears quite quickly, so not even sure it's worth adding.

[RicoS321]

57 minutes ago, Panda said:

Have attempted to work out what we'll earn from qualifying for the two respective competitions, based on the estimated prize money.

These aren't exact figures as a lot of it is still too early to work out, as payments change based on the number of countries represented, coefficients, and other money that isn't decided until the end of the group stage, but we'll be in the right ballpark.

 

Firstly, last season Hearts earned €4.5m from being in the Conference League group stage, winning two games, getting a 100% share of Scotland's TV money for the group stage, and a payment based on their 10-year coefficient ranking (FYI: Aberdeen are ranked 215th, Hearts 258th).

 

What Aberdeen can expect this season...

Europa League

Starting fee €3.63m

€0.63m per win / €0.21m per draw

Finish third €0.5m

Finish second €1.75m

Finish first €2.3m

Coefficient ranking €0.66m*

TV money**:

- If only Scottish team €2.58m

- If Rangers drop into Europa: €1.03m

(Rangers would get 60%, Aberdeen 40%)

*This is impossible to work out at this stage, but is an estimate on where we'd likely be ranked out of the 32 teams.

**Again can't be worked out until the 32 teams are known due to other distribution models.

What we get: If being realistic, best case scenario is third in which case we could make €8.5m plus have a crack at Conference League knockouts (€7m if Rangers also in groups).

Worst case scenario is fourth, six losses, and Rangers also in groups. We could still walk away with over €5m.

Europa Conference League

Starting fee: €2.94m

€0.5m per win / €0.17m per draw.

Finish second: €0.625m

Finish first: €1.25m

Coefficient ranking*: €0.22

TV money*:

- If only Scottish team: €0.435

- If one of Hearts/Hibs qualify: €0.261

(Aberdeen get 60%)

- If both Hearts/Hibs qualify: €0.174

(Aberdeen get 40%, the other two both 30%)

Parachute payment from losing Europa League play-off: Hearts received €290,000 last season

*Again coefficient ranking & TV money is guess work as the 32 teams aren't known. 

Realistically, best we do is maybe second if draw is favourable. That would be around €6m plus the knockout stage.

Do what Hearts did last year and it's around €4.5m again, perhaps slightly more.

Worst case scenario lose every game, then €3.1m to €3.5m.

 

Things to note: These are in Euros. So €3.1m is more like £2.67m.

Also these don't include ticket sales, however it's easy to say we'll make maybe £1.5m - £2m on ticket sales and count that as profit.

However, when you consider the stadium upgrades we've paid for, charter flights, hotels, security, policing etc, basically that £1.5m to £2m disappears quite quickly, so not even sure it's worth adding.

Nice work. Would making the players get their own way and using Airbnb help maximise the profit?

I think it's fairly obscene to be honest. We're basically getting more money than the first prize spfl. It's such a fucked up way to run fitba and totally destructive. We're now basically the scum, fighting to ensure nobody else can get the unearned riches. Imagine how much better it'd be if all that money was pooled and added to the prize fund? We'd have a proper league.

[SeeBass]

I honestly couldn't care less how much we might earn from this.  Money has ruined football which is probably why I've lost a lot of love for the game.  We're not in it to make big bucks we're in it to do as well as we can on the pitch.

Our support and players need to give their heads a wobble.  The amount of times I hear nicking a point on Sunday against Celtic will be a good result I could bang my head off a brick wall.

Mentality throughout from all those connected with club is pretty depressing.

We should be playing at weekend to win and to seek victory no matter the opposition on any given matchday even in Europe.

 

 

 

 

[OrlandoDon]

3 hours ago, SeeBass said:

I honestly couldn't care less how much we might earn from this.  Money has ruined football which is probably why I've lost a lot of love for the game.  We're not in it to make big bucks we're in it to do as well as we can on the pitch.

Our support and players need to give their heads a wobble.  The amount of times I hear nicking a point on Sunday against Celtic will be a good result I could bang my head off a brick wall.

Mentality throughout from all those connected with club is pretty depressing.

We should be playing at weekend to win and to seek victory no matter the opposition on any given matchday even in Europe.

 

 

 

 

Almost the opposite for me. More money affords better players, better chance of greater success in the future, home and abroad. It’s all about long term, one decent season here and there doesn’t appeal, I want us to build something better.

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

13 hours ago, SeeBass said:

I honestly couldn't care less how much we might earn from this.  Money has ruined football which is probably why I've lost a lot of love for the game.  We're not in it to make big bucks we're in it to do as well as we can on the pitch.

Couldn't agree more with you on this SeeBass.  I don't know when fans started this fascination about how much their team could make from doing well in certain competitions, how much they could sell their star player for or how much their club's net transfer spend was compared to their rivals.

Does anyone know how much money the club made from winning the cup winners cup?  Of course they don't, no one cared.  We are now in an era where fans seem to be more obsessed with whether their club can make an extra few million by getting through an extra round in Europe than whether they can actually lift a domestic trophy. I get the impression people have forgotten why they started to watch fitba in the first place. 

22 hours ago, RicoS321 said:

We're now basically the scum, fighting to ensure nobody else can get the unearned riches. Imagine how much better it'd be if all that money was pooled and added to the prize fund? We'd have a proper league.

    Absolutely this Rico.

[DantheDon]

It's one of the conundrums of supporting a football team nowadays though. I don't speak to many people who don't agree with the sentiment that money has ruined football. And yet if your a supporter you know that the only way for your team to get any level of success is to make lots of money. What is achievable for a team like Aberdeen? Maybe if we get into the europa league on a regular basis we would make enough money that we might be able to challenge the old firm. There is no other way, it's all about the money nowadays. If you want to support your team you just have to accept this unfortunately.

[OrlandoDon]

I don’t think there’s a single person here who wouldn’t prefer the good old days where we could compete with Real Madrid and Bayern munich, and have extended runs in Europe. We didn’t focus on money because it wasn’t a huge issue. We’re worlds away from that now. Money has totally ruined the game, I loved the old euro format of the three tournaments, league winners, cup winners etc. but that’s long gone. 
the only way to compete domestically and in Europe is to focus on money, become an excellent business. Teams like Ajax are the perfect example of developing youth, and there’s plenty examples of teams who buy then sell players for millions profit.
We have to earn more money in order to advance in standards of performance and hopefully success.  We have to be a better business if we want to compete. That means more money, better players, better performances. There’s no other way than the current model of selling on youth and flipping players like Rama. Ticket sales, sponsorship, and the club shop just don’t bring in enough. You’re living in the past if you don’t consider money. 

[RicoS321]

37 minutes ago, DantheDon said:

It's one of the conundrums of supporting a football team nowadays though. I don't speak to many people who don't agree with the sentiment that money has ruined football. And yet if your a supporter you know that the only way for your team to get any level of success is to make lots of money. What is achievable for a team like Aberdeen? Maybe if we get into the europa league on a regular basis we would make enough money that we might be able to challenge the old firm. There is no other way, it's all about the money nowadays. If you want to support your team you just have to accept this unfortunately.

I don't think you have to accept, but be aware of it. The first problem with the route that you describe is that it doesn't lead to the outcome you suggest - it's pie in the sky nonsense. The second problem is that once you've reached the pie in the sky goal, you inevitably realise that you had to become a Hun/Tim to get there. All the "Aberdeen has a spirit" becomes verifiable bullshit. Instead of having the other teams in Scotland backing you, they all (correctly) hope you fail because they don't want another airse cheek. The pathetic, happy clapping, hollow victory is recognised for what it is.

The far more logical, and likely to be successful, route is to fight back as a group. First, get supporters and clubs to recognise that there is another way, and the way that you describe is shallow and repugnant. Get them to really understand the existing setup and that it's just a man made system that can be changed (this, of course, is a mirror of our wider economic system), and that existing setup is anti meritocratic. Really challenge the clubs and harass the media - especially public - to present that fact, and have it run through all discourse: "so Brendan, you were able to beat a team with one tenth of your budget today....". Once you've unveiled the sham and you openly discuss it as a sham, then you get to work solving it. In my opinion, that can only occur by promoting equality (thus sporting merit) as the number one goal in every design decision. That means equal split of all prize funds, perhaps salary caps, centralised (not geographically, but organisational) youth setups with drafting, split gates etc etc. Of course, there will have to be a cut-off at some point, via the divisional split, but I guess that'd have to be via some part time Vs full time delineation. Either way, all clubs bar two in the country would benefit, as would the game itself. The problem with the way you suggest as "the only way" is that it gives us this false hope. A perennial target that will never actually be met, but it gives people just enough glimpse of possible success that they don't change anything, or worse think that it would be unfair to change anything. It's been forty years of failure and anti-sport in Scottish fitba, that's more than enough evidence. Your "only way" is not actually a way at all.

[Panda]

2 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

 I don't know when fans started this fascination about how much their team could make from doing well in certain competitions, how much they could sell their star player for or how much their club's net transfer spend was compared to their rivals.

I'll take a guess it became a thing when fans realised their club need to make money to be able to compete for trophies.

What's difficult to understand here? Do people think we're hoping the club make a lot of money so they can decorate the changing rooms and lay new carpets? It's so we can buy better players, develop our own, and be successful. 

The "I don't care how much money we make I want us to be successful" comment doesn't really work, unless you can point out a team that has been successful recently without spending anything.

2 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

Does anyone know how much money the club made from winning the cup winners cup?  Of course they don't, no one cared.

With respect, what a ridiculous comment.

You're basically ridiculing people for wanting their team to earn money so they can be successful.

2 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

  We are now in an era where fans seem to be more obsessed with whether their club can make an extra few million by getting through an extra round in Europe than whether they can actually lift a domestic trophy.

Again, another ridiculous comment.

You do realise it's possible to do both? 

2 hours ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

 

41 minutes ago, OrlandoDon said:

We have to earn more money in order to advance in standards of performance and hopefully success.  We have to be a better business if we want to compete. That means more money, better players, better performances. There’s no other way than the current model of selling on youth and flipping players like Rama. Ticket sales, sponsorship, and the club shop just don’t bring in enough. You’re living in the past if you don’t consider money. 

Exactly this, especially that last sentence.

We've managed to turn Aberdeen potentially earning €5-8m into a negative. 

[DantheDon]

Rico I agree with what your saying. It just doesn't seem like there is enough of an appetite for change at the moment. I'm sure plenty of people don't go to games for the very reason that football is a business rather than a sport. But as long as a reasonable amount of people continue supporting the current setup I dont see any reason why it would change. Hence why I say its a conundrum, you want to support a team then you are also supporting the current setup. 

[Panda]

Not that it matters, because unless we win the Scottish Cup with a team of working class men who were all born within the perimeter of Pittodrie then it means nothing, but Vilnius v Hacken is currently being streamed by skybet (and likely other betting websites).

[Jute]

Hacken 1-0 up currently. 

[Panda]

Finished 3-1 Hacken.

I watched the last five minutes and that was enough to learn they are both hopeless and we'll run rings around the winner, so I wouldn't worry too much.

[Elgindon]

..and we made about £1m from our ECWC run  

[BigAl]

Ok lads, I have sufficient loyalty points to acquire a ticket for the play off match BUT as I have posted elsewhere I will be out of the country and can't attend, therefore it's simple, the first person to offer me face value (think it is £25) gets it.

I'll be watching from afar getting pished.

 

[OxfordDon]

1 hour ago, BigAl said:

Ok lads, I have sufficient loyalty points to acquire a ticket for the play off match BUT as I have posted elsewhere I will be out of the country and can't attend, therefore it's simple, the first person to offer me face value (think it is £25) gets it.

I'll be watching from afar getting pished.

 

Hemmin, haven't you learned anything from this thread - success isn't measured in monetary terms.  I'll give you a quid.

[BigAl]

4 minutes ago, OxfordDon said:

Hemmin, haven't you learned anything from this thread - success isn't measured in monetary terms.  I'll give you a quid.

Then you'll be getting fuck all mate

It's not easy living on a pension these days 

 

[tom_widdows]

Vilnius goalie looks like he might be at Hibs next season

[Jute]

9 hours ago, BigAl said:

Then you'll be getting fuck all mate

It's not easy living on a pension these days 

 

He says from his Villa overlooking the Mediterranean. 

[wokinginashearerwonderland]

Just now, Panda said:

I'll take a guess it became a thing when fans realised their club need to make money to be able to compete for trophies.

The "I don't care how much money we make I want us to be successful" comment doesn't really work, unless you can point out a team that has been successful recently without spending anything.

With respect, what a ridiculous comment.

You're basically ridiculing people for wanting their team to earn money so they can be successful.

You do realise it's possible to do both? 

Exactly this, especially that last sentence.

We've managed to turn Aberdeen potentially earning €5-8m into a negative. 

You're totally misunderstanding my point.  There is no debate that a club needs to make money, that has always been the case.  My point is that all of that used to be a concern for the boardroom, not the stands.  I cannot remember in the past, anyone saying to me that a great European run will bring in loads of cash, it was only ever all about what was happening on the pitch.  It's now like everyone's turned into the club accountant, getting the buzz about making £5M from playing a few games abroad or similarly about how much we can flog the star player for.  It just seems strange to me why fans are suddenly so interested in this kind of thing when it was never a consideration in the past. You don't get an open topped bus down Union Street for earning a few million in Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

[BigAl]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

You're totally misunderstanding my point.  There is no debate that a club needs to make money, that has always been the case.  My point is that all of that used to be a concern for the boardroom, not the stands.  I cannot remember in the past, anyone saying to me that a great European run will bring in loads of cash, it was only ever all about what was happening on the pitch.  It's now like everyone's turned into the club accountant, getting the buzz about making £5M from playing a few games abroad or similarly about how much we can flog the star player for.  It just seems strange to me why fans are suddenly so interested in this kind of thing when it was never a consideration in the past. You don't get an open topped bus down Union Street for earning a few million in Europe.

 

 

 

 

 

I get your point mate.

Personally think it's just another example of how everything nowadays is played out in the open. This sort of information would never have been getting discussed in years gone by as we didn't have internet forums back then.

Trust me back in '83, the thought of how much money it would be worth winning the Cup Winners Cup never entered a supporters head. It was all about the honour. 

21st century sport is generally becoming more and more about the money and in my opinion not for the better of sport.

[Panda]

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

It's now like everyone's turned into the club accountant, getting the buzz about making £5M from playing a few games abroad or similarly about how much we can flog the star player for.  It just seems strange to me why fans are suddenly so interested in this kind of thing when it was never a consideration in the past.

It might be a new thing for Aberdeen fans, but it's not a new thing.

As far back as 1986 Rangers fans were getting excited about spending money to be successful. Celtic fans got excited when Fergus McCann promised to compete with Rangers and rebuild the stadium. Hearts fans did the same when Romanov arrived. Man City and Chelsea too when the big money arrived for them.

It's a new thing for Aberdeen because in recent years it's the first time we've consistently received big transfer fees and big European money, which has led to us spending more money in the transfer market. Usually it's all free signings and the odd 50k on Tommy Wright, now we are offering close to a million to try and get Tonio Teklic.

Aye, money probably has ruined football, but I for one welcome the European riches if it's going to help us be more successful.

1 hour ago, wokinginashearerwonderland said:

You don't get an open topped bus down Union Street for earning a few million in Europe.

Fans should be allowed to celebrate good things happening to their club without being mocked for it.

Especially when you surely don't need it explained to you that making a few million every season greatly increases the chances of those open top bus rides.

Every club bar the Old Firn would love to be in our position right now. 

[RicoS321]

1 hour ago, Panda said:

It might be a new thing for Aberdeen fans, but it's not a new thing.

As far back as 1986 Rangers fans were getting excited about spending money to be successful. Celtic fans got excited when Fergus McCann promised to compete with Rangers and rebuild the stadium. Hearts fans did the same when Romanov arrived. Man City and Chelsea too when the big money arrived for them.

It's a new thing for Aberdeen because in recent years it's the first time we've consistently received big transfer fees and big European money, which has led to us spending more money in the transfer market. Usually it's all free signings and the odd 50k on Tommy Wright, now we are offering close to a million to try and get Tonio Teklic.

Aye, money probably has ruined football, but I for one welcome the European riches if it's going to help us be more successful.

Fans should be allowed to celebrate good things happening to their club without being mocked for it.

Especially when you surely don't need it explained to you that making a few million every season greatly increases the chances of those open top bus rides.

Every club bar the Old Firn would love to be in our position right now. 

It's not a new thing for Aberdeen fans, we were doing it in the nineties (and eighties to an extent). The point stands, and it's not particular to Aberdeen, money since the advent of the champions league has had a hugely deleterious effect on football, where before its effects were pronounced, but not saturating. 

Does the open top bus ride chance increase with more millions? I don't think the evidence backs that. I suspect you'll find that the greatest chance of success still comes with avoiding either two of the scum on the way to lifting a trophy. In other words, relying on the combined luck of all other teams in the tournament, where one team gets the chance event of beating one or other of them. We could be that fortuitous team, of course. 

[BigAl]

5 hours ago, Jute said:

He says from his Villa overlooking the Mediterranean. 

Apartment and Ionian Sea to be precise 

[Panda]

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

Does the open top bus ride chance increase with more millions? I don't think the evidence backs that.

Hearts won two Scottish Cups while spending Romanov's money. So I would say it does.

1 hour ago, RicoS321 said:

I suspect you'll find that the greatest chance of success still comes with avoiding either two of the scum on the way to lifting a trophy. 

Well obviously if you avoid the best team your chance increases. We could win the Europa League if we manage to avoid anyone good.

There's a reason Celtic and Rangers are better than us though